Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2018

[Restingvoice]

The timing for Titans is bad. We have three major writers having different ideas at the same time.

Johns directed the Titans using the classic characters.

Snyder writes new Justice League books with half of the nostalgia to the animated series and the other half creating something new. So he and his team puts Starfire and Cyborg on one Justice League.

King was planning Heroes in Crisis which he asked DC for characters he can use. DC gave him Wally and Roy, so they're taken off Titans.

That leaves Dick and Raven on Titans until King started his amnesia plot and DC decided to make it long term. So now Dick's off the table too.

Normally DC will follow their TV or movie, like how they made Justice League vs Suicide Squad, Doomsday fighting Superman at the start of Rebirth, redefining Diana's origin, and pushing Damian to Teen Titans at the same time as their movies.

However DC is also the type to let their big writers do whatever they want... and they're all big writers. So while they all don't compete directly with each other, DC gave the go to all of them, and the result is split Titans in comics at the same time as TV Titans.

[Pohzee]

That’s sounds about right. The next evolution of Dick Grayson was always just a bunch of horse crap. There was no grand plan, that was clear from the get go. They wanted a sales stunt, but then put it in the hands of editors that just weren’t equipped to run with anything. And so they came up with this mess. What a joke. What an absolute joke. Course nothing will change, of course there’s was no grand plan here, his readers just have to eat this something last minute direction by Scott Lobdell until the book gets cancelled. Which they of course will put on the readers.

Though Listening to the Podcast Kings idea would have been a kick in the nuts. Dick would be in bed having to relearn to read and stuff while Tim takes over as Nightwing.

Everything about that podcast hurt.

Dick is no longer his favorite character.

He wanted Tim to take over as Nightwing and spoon feed Dick back to health.

Dick in Wolfman's Titans was written like Tim? Gimme a break! He can't be Tim, Tim didn't exist yet. If anything TIM stole Dick's shtick. This goes EXACTLY to show how the many Robin only go to take away from each other.

I'm tired of Dick being the happy prettyboy. His character was more interesting in the 70s and 80s than now but apparently now that's Tim? No way.

[Konja7]

The timing for Titans is bad. We have three major writers having different ideas at the same time.

Johns directed the Titans using the classic characters.

Snyder writes new Justice League books with half of the nostalgia to the animated series and the other half creating something new. So he and his team puts Starfire and Cyborg on one Justice League.

King was planning Heroes in Crisis which he asked DC for characters he can use. DC gave him Wally and Roy, so they're taken off Titans.

That leaves Dick and Raven on Titans until King started his amnesia plot and DC decided to make it long term. So now Dick's off the table too.

Normally DC will follow their TV or movie, like how they made Justice League vs Suicide Squad, Doomsday fighting Superman at the start of Rebirth, redefining Diana's origin, and pushing Damian to Teen Titans at the same time as their movies.

However DC is also the type to let their big writers do whatever they want... and they're all big writers. So while they all don't compete directly with each other, DC gave the go to all of them, and the result is split Titans in comics at the same time as TV Titans.

Thank you for the explanation.

I understand. The timing for Titans was pretty bad.

[nhienphan2808]

What? Is King on something? Dick in NTT was written like Tim? He said that?

I hope i heard that wrong. Though otherwise i wouldnt be surprised. I always feel like there's something wrong about his trying to paint Dick as this guy who never has emotional problems while Bruce has ALL of them, and [Dick] says "like' 10 times in a page.

[Godlike13]

Ya, but i think he meant that in that Dick in NTT was written like what Tim would come to be. Which is Bruce like. Which is not wrong to a sense. Cause he did have a stick up his ass during NTT, and was that serious guy on the team. But i always saw that as part of his growing process. He was raised by Bruce, and Bruce was Dick's primary example of what an adult superhero looks like, so of course he's gonna rub off on him. But because of his time in NTT he was able to start to shed that and lighten up more again. Realizing more as he grows up that he's not Bruce, and who he is as an adult doesn't have to be Batman. So to me NTT shouldn't be Dick's default personality either. Even though i think that it worked for him during NTT, and it works as him trying to find his true self with his friends. This is part of why im liking the Titans show right now. Because while its more extreme, at that same time it is resonating with that.
Though at the same time Dick isn't a clown. He's not just a happy pretty boy, but someone who was raised by Batman. And that too often does get forgotten. There's a balance that really shouldn't be that hard to find if some of his creators just gave half a crap.

[nhienphan2808]

Ya, but i think he meant that in that Dick in NTT was written like what Tim would come to be. Which is Bruce like. Which is not wrong to a sense. Cause he did have a stick up his ass during NTT, and was that serious guy on the team. But i always saw that as part of his growing process. He was raised by Bruce, so of course he's gonna rub off on him. But because of his time in NTT he was able to start to shed that and lighten up more again. Realize as he grows up that he's not Bruce. To me that shouldn't be Dick's default personality either. Even though i think that it worked for him during NTT, and it works as its him trying to find his true self with his friends. This is part of why im liking the Titans show right now. Becuse while its more extreme, it is also resonating with that.
Though at the same time Dick isn't a clown. He's not just a happy pretty boy, but someone who was raised by Batman. And that too often does get forgotten. There's a balance that really shouldn't be that hard to find if some of his creators just gave half a crap.

I mean, NTT Dick while he is a raging teen, he has his happy and relaxed moments too and either way he still served as leader and thinker, the detective, the tactician. I don't mind different temperaments, I just feel like with writers like King, people gonna think only Tim can do those and Dick is only the emotional and the peacemaker. I don't want to hate tim but it's things like this that makes me feel sad for Dick and how he gets flanderized the more modern the comics get. Kings Dick is annoying and incompetent and a fodder.

[oasis1313]

Ya, but i think he meant that in that Dick in NTT was written like what Tim would come to be. Which is Bruce like. Which is not wrong to a sense. Cause he did have a stick up his ass during NTT, and was that serious guy on the team. But i always saw that as part of his growing process. He was raised by Bruce, and Bruce was Dick's primary example of what an adult superhero looks like, so of course he's gonna rub off on him. But because of his time in NTT he was able to start to shed that and lighten up more again. Realizing more as he grows up that he's not Bruce, and who he is as an adult doesn't have to be Batman. So to me NTT shouldn't be Dick's default personality either. Even though i think that it worked for him during NTT, and it works as him trying to find his true self with his friends. This is part of why im liking the Titans show right now. Because while its more extreme, at that same time it is resonating with that.
Though at the same time Dick isn't a clown. He's not just a happy pretty boy, but someone who was raised by Batman. And that too often does get forgotten. There's a balance that really shouldn't be that hard to find if some of his creators just gave half a crap.

It just feels like nobody at DC gives a crap about any of the Family except Tim Dreck and whatzisname--? Oh, yeah, I think his name was Bruce, but who cares?

[Godlike13]

It is starting to seem like there is no one at DC that has any idea's or even interest in truly bettering or evolving Dick or Nightwing. Its sucks to be a Nightwing reader right now. His editors clearly don't give a crap, creators are running or have no interest, and so Nightwing readers get stuck with last resort, out of touch, creators who are just there to get his books to print. There's no actual passion for the character or his books, no real ideas for growth or betterment, no protection of what they have, no incentive even to produce a decent book for a market that will support the book 2 times a month for over 50 issues. Seems like for intents and purposes they have given up on the character. Its rather bleak.

[Badou]

I was listening to Tom King on the Gotham by Geeks podcast and he made his dislike of the current Nightwing storyline apparent. He also clarified what happened regarding Batman #55.

Shooting Dick was his idea. He wanted it to be a part of the Bane story. He says that he doesn't like derailing other writers so he told DC "I'm shooting Nightwing in the head, I can fix this next issue with a Zatanna spell or you can run with it. Your choice." And they decided to run with it. So that's the whole story I guess. No grand plans to bring him back into the spotlight. No plan to ruin him. Just DC deciding to pick up on a potential tie-in for some sales.

Honestly, if you want to do a story where you shoot a character like Nightwing in the head then you should follow up on it. As the lead Batman writer if you want to use a character in such a drastic way then I think the responsibility falls on the writer to have a plan to follow it up. King had no interest in the Dick part of his story and it was only there to prop up his ongoing story with Bruce. It was the same situation with Johns in Forever Evil when Johns decided to expose his identity to the world to prop up his Forever Evil event. I said it then that Johns should have had a plan to follow it up with the character, but like King here he had no interest in that part of the story.

The difference is that in that situation we lucked out and we somehow stumbled into the Grayson series, but this time it all completely fell flat on its face and we have this Ric Grayson story no one really cares about.

That being said I still think that DC used this opportunity as an excuse to take Dick off the table and isolate him in Bludhaven so they wouldn't have to deal with the HiC fallout. I don't think this was the main reason for all of this but I think it was a small part of it still.

[oasis1313]

It is starting to seem like there is no one at DC that has any idea's or interest in truly bettering or evolving Dick or Nightwing. Its sucks to be a Nightwing reader right now. His editors clearly don't give a crap, creators are running or have no interest, and so Nightwing readers get stuck with last resort, out of touch, creators who are just there to get his book to print. There's no actual passion for the character or his books, no real ideas for growth or betterment, no protection of what they have, no incentive to even produce a decent book for a market that will support the book 2 times a month for over 50 issues. Seems like for intents and purposes they have given up on the character. Its rather brutal.

Tell me about it. This has been going on for over sixty years out of my life.

[Konja7]

Honestly, if you want to do a story where you shoot a character like Nightwing in the head then you should follow up on it. As the lead Batman writer if you want to use a character in such a drastic way then I think the responsibility falls on the writer to have a plan to follow it up. King had no interest in the Dick part of his story and it was only there to prop up his ongoing story with Bruce. It was the same situation with Johns in Forever Evil when Johns decided to expose his identity to the world to prop up his Forever Evil event. I said it then that Johns should have had a plan to follow it up with the character, but like King here he had no interest in that part of the story.

I agree. I think writers shouldn't use characters like Nightwing on that way if they don't have plans to develop the character part of the story.

I can even see why DC doesn't want Zatanna spell to solve things, because it would be a dumb resolution. I mean it takes away a lot of the relevance and drama of the shot. I don't know how Tom King though a Zatanna spell in the next issue is an option (or a good idea for his current story).

Of course, it would be convenient for Dick to be magically healed (the amnesia arc is a horrible decision). However, DC doesn't care about Nightwing, its decision is to help the current narrative of Tom King

[Konja7]

I mean, NTT Dick while he is a raging teen, he has his happy and relaxed moments too and either way he still served as leader and thinker, the detective, the tactician. I don't mind different temperaments, I just feel like with writers like King, people gonna think only Tim can do those and Dick is only the emotional and the peacemaker. I don't want to hate tim but it's things like this that makes me feel sad for Dick and how he gets flanderized the more modern the comics get. Kings Dick is annoying and incompetent and a fodder.

All characters has relaxed and happy moments, even Batman.

Dick was similar Batman in NTT (maybe more sociable). The problem is Dick couldn't be so similar to Batman when he returned to Batman office. So, they become Dick on the happy pretty boy.

Tim becoming so similar to Batman has given the character problems. He can't mantain a solo in Batman office (probably because he's too similar to Batman). Honestly, if it were not for Bendis wish of a nostalgic Young Justice comic (where Tim is Robin again), Tim would be in a worse situation than Dick.

[shadowsgirl]

Tim becoming so similar to Batman has given the character problems. He can't mantain a solo in Batman office (probably because he's too similar to Batman). Honestly, if it were not for Bendis wish of a nostalgic Young Justice comic (where Tim is Robin again), Tim would be in a worse situation than Dick.

That's bull. Tim could maintain a solo, but DC doesn't give him a chance. Since the reboot, they don't care about him. He was a constant seller before the New52 for almost 20 years, so there is no reason at all why he couldn't have a solo series.

[Konja7]

That's bull. Tim could maintain a solo, but DC doesn't give him a chance. Since the reboot, they don't care about him. He was a constant seller before the New52 for almost 20 years, so there is no reason at all why he couldn't have a solo series.

Sorry, I expressed myself badly. My point was that Tim can't mantain a solo in the Batman office, because they won't allow a character simlar in personality to Batman (like Tim become in his last years before New 52).

That said, the sales of Red Robin were falling before the New 52. That's probably one of the reasons why they put Tim on Teen Titans, because they know it would be more profitable.

DC had expectatives on Teen Titans, it was the face of brand for young heroes at that moment.

[shadowsgirl]

Sorry, I expressed myself badly. My point was that Tim can't mantain a solo in the Batman office, because they won't allow a character simlar in personality to Batman (like Tim become in his last years before New 52).

That said, the sales of Red Robin were falling before the New 52. That's probably one of the reasons why they put Tim on Teen Titans, because they know it would be more profitable.

DC had expectatives on Teen Titans, it was the face of brand for young heroes at that moment.

You mean before the reboot when everyone knew the status quo will change so all the books lost a lot of readers? That doesn't prove anything. Tim is different than Bruce. They can co-exist next to each other. Marcus To and Fabian Nicieza want to do a Tim solo for years, but Didio obviously doesn't want that.
Tim works best in solo. I hate it when they put him in team books. It's toxic for him.