Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2018

[Godlike13]

They didn't sell this turn to anybody. I never heard any talk of it being an "evolution" for Dick. Tom King just wanted to shoot Dick Grayson in the head; he didn't care what happened next and he's said exactly that. I guess he thought it was a "dramatic" thing to do. Didio wanted to make Dick an ugly dirty homeless alcoholic so he gave Lobdell and Fabian his imperial command and left them scrambling with nothing to hang any ideas off of. King is a rich diva now so the company lurches about to give him whatever he wants, like they do for their "star" talent. Lobdell and Fabian are like us--a couple of guys working to support their families--and they're trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear; I don't blame them at all. Meanwhile, Didio is laughing his head off over how he shafted the customers and a character he doesn't like. The only option I can see for Nightwing's viability is to meta him up somehow.

Didio doesn’t single handedly run every department and book. King wanted to shoot Dick, the Bat office are the one’s who decided to run with it and bumbled it into Ric. The advertised next evolution of Dick Grayson.
And Lobdell and Fabian are the ones who are excuting it. They are the ones writing Ric continually dog his former self to his readers, repeating the same crap over and over as they painfullly drag things out. Missing that this could actually be a character journey for Dick, and instead are lazily just treating Ric as if he’s a different character. So I’m sorry, they’re not excused for this crap story and uninspired execution. That took this idea and have just made it worse.

[Restingvoice]

I'm in the mood for new music so what songs do you associate with Nightwing?
Besides Daring Young Man on a Flying Trapeze.

[byrd156]

I'm in the mood for new music so what songs do you associate with Nightwing?
Besides Daring Young Man on a Flying Trapeze.

I don't really associate any music with Dick, maybe the Beatles when I think about him in the Silver Age with the Teen Titans.

[Pohzee]

I'm in the mood for new music so what songs do you associate with Nightwing?
Besides Daring Young Man on a Flying Trapeze.

Huh, I didn't know that was a real song.

Just Like You- Three Days Grace
No Roots- Alice Merton
Blurryface- 21 Pilots

Alternatively, there the Nightwing: Rebirth Playlist on Spotify.
https://open.spotify.com/user/offici...RSGLQsVUfphO5A

And, since it is the season: Jingle Bells, Batman Smells.

[Hizashi]

It has a different artist for every issue. The tpb will be harder to read. Not to mention a very slow story. 4 issues in and there has been no development.

I was aware of the different artists - shame there couldn’t be more consistency in that department.

Yep, the “story” has been a whole lot of nothing - I wasn’t expecting some groundbreaking hit, but it was advertised as an evolution and it has bungled that up spectacularly.

[dropkickjake]

Didio doesn’t single handedly run every department and book. King wanted to shoot Dick, the Bat office are the one’s who decided to run with it and bumbled it into Ric. The advertised next evolution of Dick Grayson.
And Lobdell and Fabian are the ones who are excuting it. They are the ones writing Ric continually dog his former self to his readers, repeating the same crap over and over as they painfullly drag things out. Missing that this could actually be a character journey for Dick, and instead are lazily just treating Ric as if he’s a different character. So I’m sorry, they’re not excused for this crap story and uninspired execution. That took this idea and have just made it worse.

Its weird to me that they interrupted and cancelled Percy's plan for this. Editorial has a history of interrupting stories for crossovers and such, so I wasn't too surprised at the time. I thought they had a plan though, maybe just a bad one. The Ric stuff really feels like something they're doing because they have no plan and don't really know what to do. If you don't care what you do with Nightwing, why not just leave Percy alone? The gunshot was clearly just to make Batman mad.

[oasis1313]

Didio doesn’t single handedly run every department and book. King wanted to shoot Dick, the Bat office are the one’s who decided to run with it and bumbled it into Ric. The advertised next evolution of Dick Grayson.
And Lobdell and Fabian are the ones who are excuting it. They are the ones writing Ric continually dog his former self to his readers, repeating the same crap over and over as they painfullly drag things out. Missing that this could actually be a character journey for Dick, and instead are lazily just treating Ric as if he’s a different character. So I’m sorry, they’re not excused for this crap story and uninspired execution. That took this idea and have just made it worse.

I don't think Didio counts the paperclips, but I do think the final word on character decisions require his permission. If King and the Bat-Office want a black Batman (and Didio would have to approve it), then Duke or Luke are going to need some time in the cape to try to sell the idea--it can't be that the black person is Batman for 3 months then he's out. Dick would be the logical stand-in Bat, but he's going to have to be unavailable for the foreseeable future. Jason is kicked out of town and Tim is being coronated elsewhere. The bad guys would laugh (at first) when they're confronted by a prepubescent Batman if Damian tried to fill in. If you work at DC and you want to burn the paper to print something, you're going to have to get an okay out of the boss (just like in ANY job where you're working for someone else). He might indulge the "superstars" but he's not going to pamper the regular workhorse writers.

[Ascended]

Tom King just wanted to shoot Dick Grayson in the head; he didn't care what happened next and he's said exactly that. I guess he thought it was a "dramatic" thing to do.

To play devil's advocate; King is writing Batman, not Nightwing. From his perspective, what he does has to impact Bruce's narrative, not Dick's. Putting Bruce through the pain and guilt and whatever else of having Dick injured is a perfectly viable narrative tool.

Of course, that said, it's a viable tool for your supporting characters. It shouldn't be a viable tool for a character that is the star of his own title. Which just brings us back to what we always come back to and all of us know; DC's current management view Dick as nothing more than an attache of the Bat titles. Dick's not a star, he's a supporting character who happens to have his own book. As far as the people in charge are concerned, that's all Nightwing is; another Robin to use however they want as long as it fuels Bruce's story.

.....I am assuming there's been some kind of fallout in King's Batman. I trade wait that (and am currently at least one trade behind, because Im in no rush here) so Im just assuming that King injured Dick so Bruce could brood about it. There has been brooding or something right?

Meta dick up will never happen under the bat office, nether will mari grayson or dickkory or anything else. All nightwing can be and have is for batman.

We know. But since DC won't treat the character better all we have are our own ideas we can bounce off each other. I hold out hope that the next person they put in some kind of authority position, be it Batman group editor, or CCO, or EiC, or whatever, has not only more love for Nightwing but enough gods damn business sense to recognize the IP's value and build on it.

[Jackalope89]

To play devil's advocate; King is writing Batman, not Nightwing. From his perspective, what he does has to impact Bruce's narrative, not Dick's. Putting Bruce through the pain and guilt and whatever else of having Dick injured is a perfectly viable narrative tool.

Of course, that said, it's a viable tool for your supporting characters. It shouldn't be a viable tool for a character that is the star of his own title. Which just brings us back to what we always come back to and all of us know; DC's current management view Dick as nothing more than an attache of the Bat titles. Dick's not a star, he's a supporting character who happens to have his own book. As far as the people in charge are concerned, that's all Nightwing is; another Robin to use however they want as long as it fuels Bruce's story.

.....I am assuming there's been some kind of fallout in King's Batman. I trade wait that (and am currently at least one trade behind, because Im in no rush here) so Im just assuming that King injured Dick so Bruce could brood about it. There has been brooding or something right?



We know. But since DC won't treat the character better all we have are our own ideas we can bounce off each other. I hold out hope that the next person they put in some kind of authority position, be it Batman group editor, or CCO, or EiC, or whatever, has not only more love for Nightwing but enough gods damn business sense to recognize the IP's value and build on it.

Well, comics office DC won't treat Dick any better any time soon. However, I believe that Young Justice Dick and Titans Dick (outside of blowing up the off the grid hospital full of people, evil people, but still) will get good stories.

[oasis1313]

To play devil's advocate; King is writing Batman, not Nightwing. From his perspective, what he does has to impact Bruce's narrative, not Dick's. Putting Bruce through the pain and guilt and whatever else of having Dick injured is a perfectly viable narrative tool.
.....I am assuming there's been some kind of fallout in King's Batman. I trade wait that (and am currently at least one trade behind, because Im in no rush here) so Im just assuming that King injured Dick so Bruce could brood about it. There has been brooding or something right?

Uh, no. He just gave 'Beast a whomping, which he would have done anyway. I'd rather shoot Beast shot somebody else. Anybody else.

[Ascended]

Haven't watched Titans, but I do hear good things. And Im not worried at all about Young Justice treating Dick right, Im just worried he wont get as much screen time as I want him to.

But you bring up an interesting question: how *does* Dick feel about lethal force? Obviously he's not a fan. He doesn't support it and he won't use it. Those're his "politics" so to speak. But have we ever seen him in a "rock-hard place" situation with it? A situation where innocent people will die if he doesn't pull the trigger, with no easy, plot-induced way out of it?

Superman talks a lot about his no kill code, but he breaks it a lot more than people realize. He wont kill.....until he does. Bruce has tried a few times in main canon to take a life, but never succeeded. Have we ever seen Dick pushed to that limit, and if so, how did he handle it? I mean, we see the "life of death" stuff all the time and we see Nightwing pull out the miraculous save where no one dies at all.....but have there been times when there was no miraculous save to be had and Dick had to really look at the situation and make that call, with no escape available?

Clearly Dick isn't one for lethal force......but I wonder how he'd react in a situation where he didn't have a choice and had to really weigh lives? Could he bring himself to do it? How would he process that? And has he ever killed before and Im just forgetting it?

[Ascended]

Well, comics office DC won't treat Dick any better any time soon. However, I believe that Young Justice Dick and Titans Dick (outside of blowing up the off the grid hospital full of people, evil people, but still) will get good stories.

Eh, you never know. WB is mercurial as sh*t, and it seems like every time I turn around some other jackass is in charge and has put other jackasses in new positions over DC. All it takes is one dude finding himself above Didio and deciding that he likes the Nightwing name, or the costume, or his niece is a fan, or whatever, and Didio will have to push Nightwing whether he wants to or not. You're probably right and we won't see any real improvement for many years, not until Didio leaves, but you never know. Not so many years ago, people would say Harley Quinn was *just* the Joker's girlfriend/sidekick, and look at her now. Merchandise sales talk. It's not impossible for Nightwing to find an X factor of his own that forces DC's hand whether they like it or not.

Haven't watched Titans, but I do hear all the good things. And Im not worried at all about Young Justice treating Dick right, Im just worried he wont get as much screen time as I want him to.

But you bring up an interesting question: how *does* Dick feel about lethal force? Obviously he's not a fan. He doesn't support it and he won't use it. Those're his "politics" so to speak. But have we ever seen him in a "rock-hard place" situation with it? A situation where innocent people will die if he doesn't pull the trigger, with no easy, plot-induced way out of it?

Superman talks a lot about his no kill code, but he breaks it a lot more than people realize. He wont kill.....until he does. Bruce has tried a few times in main canon to take a life, but never succeeded. Have we ever seen Dick pushed to that limit, and if so, how did he handle it? I mean, we see the "life of death" stuff all the time and we see Nightwing pull out the miraculous save where no one dies at all.....but have there been times when there was no miraculous save to be had and Dick had to really look at the situation and make that call, with no escape available?

Clearly Dick isn't one for lethal force......but I wonder how he'd react in a situation where he didn't have a choice and had to really weigh lives? Could he bring himself to do it? How would he process that? And has he ever killed before and Im just forgetting it?

Uh, no. He just gave 'Beast a whomping, which he would have done anyway. I'd rather shoot Beast shot somebody else. Anybody else.

But definitely not Tim Drake. We know how much you looovvvveee Tim, my friend!

[Arsenal]

Didn’t Dick briefly (like for a few seconds) kill the joker once?

[byrd156]

Didn’t Dick briefly (like for a few seconds) kill the joker once?

He beat him in a rage, that's the closest Dick has ever been to killing some one.

[Godlike13]

Ya, they explored it in Last Laugh, and then again with Block Buster. Both times sent him into a depression.