Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2018

[Aahz]

But just killing off Jason doesn't immediately lead to Red Hood. I think they'd need a time skip and maybe an older actor. Although maybe by then the actor they have would be old enough to pull it off.

Age the age of the actor is less of a problem than his look. The Actors is already 20 he just looks like he was still a teen and than will probably not change any time soon.

In general most of the actors on that show (except for Teagan Croft/Raven) are older than their characters a probably supposed to be: Brenton Thwaites/Robin is 29, Anna Diop/Starfire is 30 and Ryan Potter/Beats Boy is 23.

[Rac7d*]

Age the age of the actor is less of a problem than his look. The Actors is already 20 he just looks like he was still a teen and than will probably not change any time soon.

In general most of the actors on that show (except for Teagan Croft/Raven) are older than their characters a probably supposed to be: Brenton Thwaites/Robin is 29, Anna Diop/Starfire is 30 and Ryan Potter/Beats Boy is 23.

He can jsut pull a Taylor lautner and beef up, its no issue

[Badou]

If it gets him to Nightwing, I’ll take it.

I've said this before in the past but I still want to see DC/WB push all their chips in with the Nightwing brand. A big reason I am critical of the Nightwing identity is because they have refused to do that. From movies, to TV shows, to animated shows and movies, and even comics. They've never gone all in with Nightwing and they always default to Robin, promote Batman instead, or just have Nightwing be part of an a team rather than the Nightwing name being what they push to the forefront.

Like if all these other characters are getting these solo series and Nightwing is just part of Titans then I think that would be so telling. Hopefully if/when he becomes Nightwing they give him a solo series.

I don't know how I feel about Dick becoming Nightwing without the Judas Contract storyline in a Titans show. I do hope that when Dick finally decides to make amends we see him and Bruce together in live action. That would make this whole show worth it.

Well in the current comics Dick didn't become Nightwing due to the Judas Contract story. So I don't see that happening. It sucks they are probably basing this version of the character off poor stories like Nightwing Year One, but I think I can tolerate it if they at least have the Superman connection to him being Nightwing. If it is just an identity he randomly comes up with on his own for the show I'd be very disappointed.

Age the age of the actor is less of a problem than his look. The Actors is already 20 he just looks like he was still a teen and than will probably not change any time soon.

In general most of the actors on that show (except for Teagan Croft/Raven) are older than their characters a probably supposed to be: Brenton Thwaites/Robin is 29, Anna Diop/Starfire is 30 and Ryan Potter/Beats Boy is 23.

They can change his look, like have him gain some more muscle or change his hair, to make him look older and more rugged I think.

[Frontier]

There's a clip from the show with Dick and Jason at the 2:19 mark in this video:

Jason never has really had a role on Dick's character developmet, he is just used as an extencion of Bruce and HIS relationship with Dick. In this show his role is "adds insult to injury", as it has been descrived as: "It's like running into your ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend, minus the sexual tension" not sure what degree of maturity, hope or growth you see there.

But they've also said that it will challenge or effect Dick's own preconceptions about Batman and what being Robin meant, and maybe help with the identity issues he's said to be having on the show.

This version of Dick and Jason's dynamic seems antagonistic which I'm fine with since Jason is a douche and that fits his character. It seems like the story will play out like "I'm the new Robin and I'm gonna be better than you." I would be surprised if they didn't come to blows, also I doubt that Dick would have given his blessing for Jason to be the new Robin since Dick is still wearing the suit. I don't know how I feel about Dick becoming Nightwing without the Judas Contract storyline in a Titans show. I do hope that when Dick finally decides to make amends we see him and Bruce together in live action. That would make this whole show worth it.

It seems more likely they are going to start out rough and then end up teaming-up over the course of the episode (kind of like they're dynamic in the comics). Then Dick probably gives Jason his approval as Robin and he begins the process of becoming Nightwing.

I don't think they're going to use Judas Contract for Nightwing here if only because that doesn't seem to be something they're going for with season 1, since it will be more Trigon focused.

Well in the current comics Dick didn't become Nightwing due to the Judas Contract story. So I don't see that happening. It sucks they are probably basing this version of the character off poor stories like Nightwing Year One, but I think I can tolerate it if they at least have the Superman connection to him being Nightwing. If it is just an identity he randomly comes up with on his own for the show I'd be very disappointed.

Well, it seems Superman exists given they're planning to do Superboy and Lex Luthor, although given they've never adapted the original source of the Nightwing name, I'm not sure if that will be any different here.

They can change his look, like have him gain some more muscle or change his hair, to make him look older and more rugged I think.

I dunno, I don't see so dramatic a look change unless there's a bit of a time skip. I don't think they're going to rush into Red Hood.

[Badou]

Well, it seems Superman exists given they're planning to do Superboy and Lex Luthor, although given they've never adapted the original source of the Nightwing name, I'm not sure if that will be any different here.

Also I think they said Deathstroke is off limits so that undercuts any Judas Contract stuff as well. I'm sure they will just skip over it all to be honest and he will just be Nightwing without much explanation.

I think what annoys me is just how much crap they are shoving into the Titans show. They are doing a messy version of the NTT that is inspired by the cartoon lineup but they couldn't use Cyborg for it, they are doing the Dixon Bludhaven stuff, they are doing Jason Todd and him being the new Robin, Dick's fallout with Batman and I guess becoming Nightwing, they have the Doom Patrol coming in to set up their own show, past original Titans being mentioned, and probably more. It feels like such a mess.

Marvel took their time with introducing Daredevil and slowly building up their series and world, and this feels like they are throwing everything out there hoping some of it sticks. This is Dick's first big push in something like this where he isn't behind Batman, but he is stuck underneath the Titans branding and all these additional things DC wants to push into their own projects.

[Frontier]

Also I think they said Deathstroke is off limits so that undercuts any Judas Contract stuff as well. I'm sure they will just skip over it all to be honest and he will just be Nightwing without much explanation.

I know he's off-limits to the Arrowverse, though I'm not sure if the embargoes are still in effect for the streaming shows.

I think what annoys me is just how much crap they are shoving into the Titans show. They are doing a messy version of the NTT that is inspired by the cartoon lineup but they couldn't use Cyborg for it, they are doing the Dixon Bludhaven stuff, they are doing Jason Todd and him being the new Robin, Dick's fallout with Batman and I guess becoming Nightwing, they have the Doom Patrol coming in to set up their own show, past original Titans being mentioned, and probably more. It feels like such a mess.

All that together doesn't sound like a mess to me, just the writers picking from the vast history of these characters to develop their own take on the Titans franchise.

I don't see why it can't mesh well if the writers know what they're doing. Just look at how many different concepts and characters Young Justice played with.

Marvel took their time with introducing Daredevil and slowly building up their series and world, and this feels like they are throwing everything out there hoping some of it sticks. This is Dick's first big push in something like this where he isn't behind Batman, but he is stuck underneath the Titans branding and all these additional things DC wants to push into their own projects.

Daredevil was a solo show, though. Titans is basically if the Defenders was what started off the Netlflix shows.

[byrd156]

Also I think they said Deathstroke is off limits so that undercuts any Judas Contract stuff as well. I'm sure they will just skip over it all to be honest and he will just be Nightwing without much explanation.

I think what annoys me is just how much crap they are shoving into the Titans show. They are doing a messy version of the NTT that is inspired by the cartoon lineup but they couldn't use Cyborg for it, they are doing the Dixon Bludhaven stuff, they are doing Jason Todd and him being the new Robin, Dick's fallout with Batman and I guess becoming Nightwing, they have the Doom Patrol coming in to set up their own show, past original Titans being mentioned, and probably more. It feels like such a mess.

Marvel took their time with introducing Daredevil and slowly building up their series and world, and this feels like they are throwing everything out there hoping some of it sticks. This is Dick's first big push in something like this where he isn't behind Batman, but he is stuck underneath the Titans branding and all these additional things DC wants to push into their own projects.

It seems like a lot of not Titans related stuff is pushed into the foreground of this show. Dick being a cop, Jason Todd, Doom Patrol, etc. Dick as a cop in Bludhaven I really love but him starting the Titans as a reaction to leaving Bruce and finding others. I'm personally not a fan of that, maybe there will be a "team" that happened since Donna is in the show and they have already met. I just get the same feeling I felt from this show when the DCEU started, it feels like the creative choices are already built on shaky ground. I just want the show to be out already so I can know the quality of it.

Young Justice I think really is the closest we will get to a classic Titans show being built from the sidekicks up.

[Rakiduam]

But they've also said that it will challenge or effect Dick's own preconceptions about Batman and what being Robin meant, and maybe help with the identity

Right, so resentment and disappointment. And againg it is about Batman and hs relationship with Dick, Jason just a symptom and Nightwing a reaction. There it goes the independecy and freedom of thaking his own decisions that was in the original New Teen Titans.

[Aioros22]

You know, the same original NTT had Wolfman exploring the darker turns of Dick becoming his own man in the Trigon saga and it involved both Bruce and Jason..

[Badou]

Daredevil was a solo show, though. Titans is basically if the Defenders was what started off the Netlflix shows.

Exactly my point. They knew where they wanted to end up with the shows when starting with DD and had a plan to get there. I don't know if I really feel like there is a plan here. It is the same as the BvS and JL movie where they wanted to rush to hurry up and get to more characters and stories without properly setting them up first.

[OWL45]

You know, the same original NTT had Wolfman exploring the darker turns of Dick becoming his own man in the Trigon saga and it involved both Bruce and Jason..

Very true. Some of the fan base try to make Dick seem like a paragon of virtue who has no flaws and it’s not true. It kind of robs the character of some of his depth and makes him seem cookie cutter.

[Rakiduam]

Very true. Some of the fan base try to make Dick seem like a paragon of virtue who has no flaws and it’s not true. It kind of robs the character of some of his depth and makes him seem cookie cutter.

How does the idea that Dick transition to Nightwing was independent Batman, or Jason, as IT WAS before it was rewritten to tie him to Batman's history wind up into "make Dick seem like a paragon of virtue"?

That is a very weird jump of logic.

[byrd156]

Very true. Some of the fan base try to make Dick seem like a paragon of virtue who has no flaws and it’s not true. It kind of robs the character of some of his depth and makes him seem cookie cutter.

Literally no one said this.

[Frontier]

It seems like a lot of not Titans related stuff is pushed into the foreground of this show. Dick being a cop, Jason Todd, Doom Patrol, etc. Dick as a cop in Bludhaven I really love but him starting the Titans as a reaction to leaving Bruce and finding others. I'm personally not a fan of that, maybe there will be a "team" that happened since Donna is in the show and they have already met. I just get the same feeling I felt from this show when the DCEU started, it feels like the creative choices are already built on shaky ground. I just want the show to be out already so I can know the quality of it.

The Doom Patrol were acknowledged in NTT and were in the last season of the original Teen Titans cartoon. They're a big part of Beast Boy's character.

The Jason and Bludhaven stuff just seems to be there to expand on Dick's ties to the Batfamily (Jason) or give him a life outside of being Robin (Bludhaven).

Right, so resentment and disappointment. And againg it is about Batman and hs relationship with Dick, Jason just a symptom and Nightwing a reaction. There it goes the independecy and freedom of thaking his own decisions that was in the original New Teen Titans.

That's what it's starting out as but I imagine it will be moving past that over the course of the first season.

Exactly my point. They knew where they wanted to end up with the shows when starting with DD and had a plan to get there. I don't know if I really feel like there is a plan here. It is the same as the BvS and JL movie where they wanted to rush to hurry up and get to more characters and stories without properly setting them up first.

The plan is the Titans coming together as a team.

It's been said that the first season will kind of feel like a movie as the team slowly starts to come together.

[Digifiend]

I will say that the newest issue of Titans has some good character work for Dick even if it's retreading old ground. Going through all the old movies while doing it made it feel very unique and fun to read. Dick and M'Gann isn't something I'm against but it feels too little too late since he has the amnesia coming up and will probably disappear from Titans.

That's confirmed by an issue 30 variant cover. Kyle Rayner will be replacing him on the team.