Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2018

[Konja7]

It's not so much about source material as it is about the concept of the character. The point of doing a TV show or movie is to tell new stories, not just adapt the comics.
And as a concept, the other Titans are more exciting than Dick. There's a reason nobody has ever wondered why Marvel never made a Hawkeye movie. The only thing NW has going for him as a TV pitch is that he'd be a cheaper show to make because no powers.

Hard but true.

The concept of Nightwing as a hero becoming totally independent is interesting, but you probably need to see Dick as a sidekick for a time, so that there will be a strong impact on a new audience.

Also, it doesn't help that the concept of a hero becoming independent has been used on TV shows before. So, it isn't as new as when Dick and his friends used on New Teen Titans.

[Ascended]

Are there any other exceptions?

The most notable one is the Guardians of the Galaxy. I believe Ant-Man has also seen higher sales than he used to since his movie came out. If there are any others I'm either forgetting about them or didn't know about them in the first place. But I do want to say there was at least one other property that benefited from larger media adaptations......Hellboy maybe?

The rule about other media not doing a lot for comic sales is generally true, but Flash is kind of the exception. Maybe it is because Flash never really had a big other media adaptation until now outside that poor early 90s show, but the CW show was a big hit and has raised the sales of the Flash comics some. It helped its sales from falling off as much as many of the books it used to sell around in the New 52, and since Rebirth the series has been DC's second most consistent selling solo title behind only Batman I think. So there are other factors involved but the book is better off now than where it was before the show came out.

I mean, you're not wrong that floppy sales went up *roughly* around the same time as the show hit, but there are so many factors in the mix I'm not convinced the CW made that much of an impact. I'm not saying you're wrong about it, I really don't know, but if you're right then the Flash seems to be the only high profile IP to see such a benefit. The other exceptions, to my knowledge, are all Z-list properties like the GotG. I mean, Arrow hasn't seen a big rise in sales because of the show, nor has Supergirl or Daredevil or Punisher.

[Ascended]

as a concept, the other Titans are more exciting than Dick. There's a reason nobody has ever wondered why Marvel never made a Hawkeye movie. The only thing NW has going for him as a TV pitch is that he'd be a cheaper show to make because no powers.

I dunno if I can agree that the other Titans are more exciting, from a tv perspective. I mean, there's good stuff with all of those characters that a tv audience would eat up, but I can't say that they're inherently more interesting to the format than Dick. And plenty of shows about street level vigilantes have done well, the biggest difference between most of those characters and Nightwing is that Nightwing has an even bigger sandbox to play in, when DC admits that he's not just a Bat but a Titan and a Super as well.

But then, it would also depend on how you approach Nightwing, too, and what elements you decided to work with and focus on.

I suspect they're trying to aim Dick on the Titans show towards the Nightwing transformation. We'll have to see how that goes over to be able to gauge how interested audiences might be.

And there's talk that Hawkeye is getting a series on that Marvel streaming app, so......we'll see how that plays out.

[Badou]

It's not so much about source material as it is about the concept of the character. The point of doing a TV show or movie is to tell new stories, not just adapt the comics.
And as a concept, the other Titans are more exciting than Dick. There's a reason nobody has ever wondered why Marvel never made a Hawkeye movie. The only thing NW has going for him as a TV pitch is that he'd be a cheaper show to make because no powers.

I think the purpose of a TV show is to adapt a character. That can be with both new stories and stories from source material. Most use source material though and don't really do new things. Just take material from the comics (sometimes not even from their own comics) and create a show around it. That is basically all of what the DC shows have done. Dick Grayson has 80+ years of stories to use as a reference. So the idea that he isn't interesting enough is kind of flawed when he is one of DC's most popular characters and people have been wanting him in movies and TV for a while. They are making a fucking Alfred show, so it isn't like the bar is set high in terms of what DC/WB are willing to make too.

And by what measure are the other Titans more exciting? Because they have powers? No one is going around asking for a Starfire or a Beast Boy movie or show. So I don't really follow your logic. I guess it is also personal preference. You obviously don't think much of or aren't that interested in Dick as a character and have no desire to see him in a solo adaptation. I obviously feel differently and think that with the success of Daredevil, Spider-man and Batman there is room for a version of Nightwing as a young solo hero in the DC Universe that fans would enjoy.

[Badou]

Also I think the Hawkeye argument is a bit flawed. People have wondered why they haven't made a Hawkeye movie, but Hawkeye is kind of a different character from Dick given Dick's history and legacy. Plenty of people also wondered why they never made a Black Widow movie as well and that is in production I think now. I mean by the logic that Dick as a concept isn't interesting or exciting enough for a movie or TV show then he also shouldn't have a solo comic over all those other Titans characters as well, but none of those Titans character ever have any kind of solo that can last because their concept quickly burns itself out.

[Konja7]

Badou, I don't think you need to be so defensive about this (Babybats think Grayson can work on a show as Spy).

As you said, Dick has a big legacy, story and popularity, which helps him a lot.


However, this isn't so essential for a new audience, which TV shows try to attract (they don't focus so much on comic fans).

Many interesting concepts of Nightwing have been used on other TV shows. That's why it would be difficult to sell Nightwing spinoff for a new audience.

[Jackalope89]

Badou, I don't think you need to be so defensive about this (Babybats think Grayson can work on a show as Spy).

As you said, Dick has a big legacy, story and popularity, which helps him a lot.


However, this isn't so essential for a new audience, which TV shows try to attract (they don't focus so much on comic fans).

Many interesting concepts of Nightwing have been used on other TV shows. That's why it would be difficult to sell Nightwing spinoff for a new audience.

In all honesty, if not for his direct ties to Bruce/Batman, he'd be right up there with the Trinity in terms of importance.

[Godlike13]

While things going on in other media might not always lead to comic sales from what we see, when has the big 2 not pushed or increased the exposure of a character or team when they have something in other media going on. Even those TT animated movies inspired them to to do a relaunch of TTs to better align. Dick and Titans seeing nothing comic wise to coincide with the show, and whats more are actually seemingly being sabotage and culled, is weird.
This is not typically what they do in these situations. Dick being taken out of Titans just in time for the show, exposing him less and away from the Titans, so they can contain him to just his book as he's remodeled into homeless taxi driver. With, and i think this is fair to say, a rushed downgrade in creator quality (like Lobdell or not, his reputation is not good. Him and Fabian even acknowledged and made fun of this in that interview), is weird. Really weird.

[Konja7]

As you said, it's weird. It isn't just Dick, they don't push Titans comics at all.

Maybe it's because the group on comics was pretty different from the group of the show. Even Dick, he's still Robin in Titans.

Maybe Titans comics will be pushed (and Dick return to the group) for the second season of Titans series, when Dick will be Nightwing.

[babybats]

I think the purpose of a TV show is to adapt a character. That can be with both new stories and stories from source material. Most use source material though and don't really do new things. Just take material from the comics (sometimes not even from their own comics) and create a show around it. That is basically all of what the DC shows have done. Dick Grayson has 80+ years of stories to use as a reference. So the idea that he isn't interesting enough is kind of flawed when he is one of DC's most popular characters and people have been wanting him in movies and TV for a while. They are making a fucking Alfred show, so it isn't like the bar is set high in terms of what DC/WB are willing to make too.

And by what measure are the other Titans more exciting? Because they have powers? No one is going around asking for a Starfire or a Beast Boy movie or show. So I don't really follow your logic. I guess it is also personal preference. You obviously don't think much of or aren't that interested in Dick as a character and have no desire to see him in a solo adaptation. I obviously feel differently and think that with the success of Daredevil, Spider-man and Batman there is room for a version of Nightwing as a young solo hero in the DC Universe that fans would enjoy.

Also I think the Hawkeye argument is a bit flawed. People have wondered why they haven't made a Hawkeye movie, but Hawkeye is kind of a different character from Dick given Dick's history and legacy. Plenty of people also wondered why they never made a Black Widow movie as well and that is in production I think now. I mean by the logic that Dick as a concept isn't interesting or exciting enough for a movie or TV show then he also shouldn't have a solo comic over all those other Titans characters as well, but none of those Titans character ever have any kind of solo that can last because their concept quickly burns itself out.

Um ok you don't have to go all "you're not a real Dick fan" on me. What I personally want and what studios want to hear in a pitch are different. And the reason Dick has a solo comic at all is because he was already popular. People were already sold, you don't need a hook. And not having a solo book doesn't mean that any of the other Titans can't POSSIBLY carry a series.

But I didn't know they were making an Alfred show, so yeah anything's possible.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Dick is probably the easiest Titan to pitch a show because he would be the cheapest. Him being non-powered gives him a leg up on the rest plus he's got a good setup in Bludhaven and the Batfamily drama is a plus.

I think Beast Boy is the only one of the remaining four that couldn't handle a show on his own. Ascended had a good pitch for an older BB that became a celebrity which could be a fun comedy movie tho. He could also work as the everyman POV for a Doom Patrol project tho.

[Shockingjustice]

Dick is probably the easiest Titan to pitch a show because he would be the cheapest. Him being non-powered gives him a leg up on the rest plus he's got a good setup in Bludhaven and the Batfamily drama is a plus.

I think Beast Boy is the only one of the remaining four that couldn't handle a show on his own. Ascended had a good pitch for an older BB that became a celebrity which could be a fun comedy movie tho. He could also work as the everyman POV for a Doom Patrol project tho.

A beast boy series would work if they treated it like Ben 10. BB would have probably the best animated series if DC treated him with respect.

[Badou]

Um ok you don't have to go all "you're not a real Dick fan" on me. What I personally want and what studios want to hear in a pitch are different. And the reason Dick has a solo comic at all is because he was already popular. People were already sold, you don't need a hook. And not having a solo book doesn't mean that any of the other Titans can't POSSIBLY carry a series.

But I didn't know they were making an Alfred show, so yeah anything's possible.

The discussion was how to increase Nightwing's sales and importance in comics, and the current status quo isn't going to change unless something from the outside causes DC to possibly look at the property differently, which would need to come from a other media source. DC isn't going to just randomly start to treat the character better in comics. The Nightwing brand needs to increase. So shooting down the idea of a solo movie or show because you don't think the concept is exciting enough kind of undercuts the property from ever being able to take that next step.

[Restingvoice]

DC Legends call Nightwing The Aerial Avenger

DrjGGIPUUAIEj2q.jpg

I think that fits better than The Dark Heir because he's not that dark, he doesn't really want to be Batman, and he likes to fly

Apparently, the original video was posted last year but I only just found out because of a tweet.

[WonderNight]

Dick is probably the easiest Titan to pitch a show because he would be the cheapest. Him being non-powered gives him a leg up on the rest plus he's got a good setup in Bludhaven and the Batfamily drama is a plus.

this is the last thing dick needs. This is why he's always just a side character in batman stuff and never the lead in his own. If your going to go that route you might as well do a Robin show.