Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2018

[dropkickjake]

But there isn't really anything in Bludhaven worth being consistent. There is very little there that creators are drawn to reusing over trying something of their own creation. Even Seeley's take on it ran its course quickly, but I think the big reason why people wanted Dick out of Gotham wasn't because of Gotham itself but because Dick wasn't allowed out into the DCU. He was cut off from the DCU and was locked into Gotham or Chicago where he had no reach into the greater universe.

We can agree on this: No Bludhaven is ideal. If Bludhaven has to be a thing, though, I'd Seeley's is the best take so far and should be the standard take.

I think it was a massive mistake to have Dick buy Haly's Circus and set the character in amusement mile. The circus works as a place where Dick can occasionally return to for brief periods to reset himself. I don't think it works as a place to set the character permanently and Higgins very quickly ran into a lot of problems when he tried to focus so much of his run there. Sure some of it had to do with how much they were setting up the Owls, but overall it didn't work and he ended up burning it all down to get away from it.

I agree that buying the circus was a bad a idea. I think I more just like the idea of Dick living in Amusement Mile, which would have its own neon casino and rollercoaster feel, for the times that Dick is "at home" in Gotham. I think if he had to have a "permanent residence," that would make plenty of sense aesthetically, and not demand much page or plot time.

That said, as I was responding to you in my head, I realized that I actually don't hate the idea of him not having a permanent residence at all. Living out of suit case, itchy feet, always on the move.

[Godlike13]

Ep. 3 wasn’t as good as 2, but still solid. The show just keeps winning me over more and more.

[oasis1313]

We can agree on this: No Bludhaven is ideal. If Bludhaven has to be a thing, though, I'd Seeley's is the best take so far and should be the standard take.




I agree that buying the circus was a bad a idea. I think I more just like the idea of Dick living in Amusement Mile, which would have its own neon casino and rollercoaster feel, for the times that Dick is "at home" in Gotham. I think if he had to have a "permanent residence," that would make plenty of sense aesthetically, and not demand much page or plot time.

That said, as I was responding to you in my head, I realized that I actually don't hate the idea of him not having a permanent residence at all. Living out of suit case, itchy feet, always on the move.

It looked to me like Higgins was trying to set something up with the circus, but then Death Of The Family popped up and everything had to be scrapped.

[Godlike13]

Court of Owls reveal killed the circus.

[dropkickjake]

Ep. 3 wasn’t as good as 2, but still solid. The show just keeps winning me over more and more.

For real. I did not expect this show to be the best thing going for Dick right now.

[oasis1313]

Court of Owls reveal killed the circus.

I thought Joker did it. Although Court of Owls turned it ugly and sinister first.

And I am really surprised by the Titans show. Thwaites' Grayson is really amazing. I'd only seen him before in "Gods of Egypt" and was extremely unimpressed with him at the time, but he's won me over here. Tonight's show was really a nice spotlight on Kory, too.

[Godlike13]

I thought Joker did it. Although Court of Owls turned it ugly and sinister first.

Joker killed some of the people and broke stuff, all that is replaceable and can be rebuilt. The Court of Owls reveal killed its purpose. Turned Dick's childhood sanctuary into a secret nightmare.

[oasis1313]

Joker killed some of the people and broke shit, all that is replaceable and be rebuilt. The Court of Owls reveal killed its purpose. Turned Dick's childhood sanctuary into a secret nightmare.

I'm at the point where I think the current DC universe is impossibly broken and needs to be completely rebooted again.

[yohyoi]

For real. I did not expect this show to be the best thing going for Dick right now.

Me too.

To those wanting Dick to get out of Bludhaven so that he could be with the greater DCU is naive. Do you think DC will treat Dick as an equal with the greater DCU? You are just asking him to be sidekick to every DC Hero. Bludhaven is a safe place where Dick can have some importance. Yet you want to take that away?

[yohyoi]

I appreciate Titans tv because they are showing Dick in his darkest times while doing it in a respectful and cool way. Dick isn't all sunshine and smiles. We need this portrayal of Dick Grayson.

[OWL45]

I appreciate Titans tv because they are showing Dick in his darkest times while doing it in a respectful and cool way. Dick isn't all sunshine and smiles. We need this portrayal of Dick Grayson.

I agree. This wanting him to be a perpetual Boy Scout is limiting the character.

[byrd156]

Joker killed some of the people and broke stuff, all that is replaceable and can be rebuilt. The Court of Owls reveal killed its purpose. Turned Dick's childhood sanctuary into a secret nightmare.

Yeah I think everyone has forgotten that and it should stay forgotten.

[WonderNight]

Me too.

To those wanting Dick to get out of Bludhaven so that he could be with the greater DCU is naive. Do you think DC will treat Dick as an equal with the greater DCU? You are just asking him to be sidekick to every DC Hero. Bludhaven is a safe place where Dick can have some importance. Yet you want to take that away?

The reason dick still gets treated like a sidekick is because he still is one. He's just as much batman's sidekick as both current robin's, orphan and signal are. He's not his own man and will never be as long he's in the bat office. He's just robin in blue, batman-lite/Jr, substitute batman, midcard batman and you wonder why he doesn't get the respect he deserves? Why he gets treated like a second rate b-list batman, it's because that is what he is. So as he stay in the bat office he will never fly high and reach is potential and bludhaven will be his cage.

I agree with seeley nightwing should be the nick fury of the dcu. He should be connect everyone Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, cybrog, the JL, TT, JSA. He should be going on kickass adventures around the globe with team ups with other heroes on a regular basis. He should be face of dc's espionage corner, He should stand side by side with the JL in events. He should be the guy that a shared universe feel and be more shared and connected.

This whole ground nightwing to batman and street level is hurting the character badly. Dick got his name form super powered alian uncle superman, date and almost married his space alian princess girlfriend and his two best friends are a amazon and a speedtser. Stop trying to ground him and let him fly high. Look at YJ and Titans, dick is a lead in the greater dcu but when he's in batman stuff he will always be the side dude/Jobber.

Dick has maxed out on being a bat and titan. He's not robin anymore, he's been batman already and he's done his batman-lite thing three times already.
The titans will alway be a team for sidekick's whether or not they have "teen" in the name. Nightwing needs a new direction. One were he's his own man and connected to the greater dcu and is NO one's sidekick.

When this ric thing is done. Dick will just go back to gotham-lite bludhaven, with no rouges or supporting cast, more will they wont they with babs, status quo shake ups evey two year because they dont know what to do with him, side lining his storys and creative teams for batmans and others, benching him in all the big events and return back to titans with all the other C-list sidekicks.

Then fans will complain why nightwing doesn't get the respect he deserves.

[Badou]

It looked to me like Higgins was trying to set something up with the circus, but then Death Of The Family popped up and everything had to be scrapped.

I think Higgins used the Death of the Family event to rid Dick of the circus. Since he had Dick take control of the circus and I don't think Higgins really knew what to do with it, especially after the Owls story finished. So he used the DotF event to burn it down and move Dick to Chicago to try and start fresh, until that got messed up too.

To those wanting Dick to get out of Bludhaven so that he could be with the greater DCU is naive. Do you think DC will treat Dick as an equal with the greater DCU? You are just asking him to be sidekick to every DC Hero. Bludhaven is a safe place where Dick can have some importance. Yet you want to take that away?

What is in Bludhaven that gives Dick any level of importance? He has Bludhaven now and he still isn't important. It doesn't protect him from being treated poorly in other places. Sure you can say that "Dick has his own city" but what is the point of that when the city itself has no value? I made this analogy before but Bludhaven is like owning a piece of land that is in the swamp. Sure you can call yourself a land owner but the land itself is worthless as it is.

So sure, he obviously will never be treated as an equal in the DCU, since he can never join the JL properly, but we know what Bludhaven is at this point and I think that whole concept and idea has run its course.

Another problem is that anchoring Dick to a place like Bludhaven makes creators think they need to give Dick some personal life or normal job. A by-the-numbers Daredevil-lite or Spider-man-lite type of book. I think what you could argue is the biggest problem with the character is that DC keeps trying to fit him in that traditional role a comic hero has. He lives in some apartment, has some normal day job, and runs around rooftops at night in his costume. Doing the traditional stuff is never going to elevate the character any. The best thing that the Grayson series did for him I think was make Dick basically a full time hero. I think DC needs to move the character back to being that or as close to a full time hero as they can.

[Vinsanity]

IMO

I think Dick Grayson if kept as NW needs to be in a real life city that's nothing like Gotham. I'm thinking like Seoul, Osaka, all those cities which will drive a different twist in storylines and maybe allow more writers who are of origin to the cities right stuff.

Just spitballing cause Bludhaven is a bland place.