Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2018

[WonderNight]

While things going on in other media might not always lead to comic sales from what we see, when has the big 2 not pushed or increased the exposure of a character or team when they have something in other media going on. Even those TT animated movies inspired them to to do a relaunch of TTs to better align. Dick and Titans seeing nothing comic wise to coincide with the show, and whats more are actually seemingly being sabotage and culled, is weird.
This is not typically what they do in these situations. Dick being taken out of Titans just in time for the show, exposing him less and away from the Titans, so they can contain him to just his book as he's remodeled into homeless taxi driver. With, and i think this is fair to say, a rushed downgrade in creator quality (like Lobdell or not, his reputation is not good. Him and Fabian even acknowledged and made fun of this in that interview), is weird. Really weird.

It's not weird. DC is investing in the comic with the the show. It's just called young justice.

DC is always going to be more invested in Tim's or Damian's generations over dick's because there still teen and kids. They contrast the JL generation more than dick's. Dick's generation end up looking like the adults how still sits at the kids table. Which is why I don't like the way DC does generations. It should just be kids, teens and adults that's all, it gets the characters out of some of these little boxes they get stuck in.

[Godlike13]

And yet the Young Justice TV show was launched with Dick as part of its forefront. Its not that DC is investing more in Tim or Damian’s gen, cause as a whole their not, which is another thing that’s weird. There’s this weird disconnect. On one hand their positioning him as part of the face of both Titans and Young Justice, yet on the other their pulling him from Titans, which don’t get me wrong is embarrassment of a comic book, and further isolating him so he can be a hobo that they can’t be bother to keep or find proper creators for.

[Konja7]

However, Young Justice TV show started with Dick and his team at a young age. I think Dick will always be the first choice of Robin for DC entertainment, but it will start with a young Dick.

That said, according to an interview with Bendis, the idea of a Young Justice comic come from Bendis, since DC doesn't have plans for this. So, DC didn't plan to push a Young Justice comic with the cartoon either.

[Godlike13]

By season 2 he was Nightwing, and now the upcoming season 3 has Nightwing as a prominent part of its promotional material. Even the sneak peak they realeased was just a clip of him.

[Konja7]

By season 2 he was Nightwing, and now the upcoming season 3 has Nightwing as a prominent part of its promotional material. Even the sneak peak they realeased was just a clip of him.

Yeah. The cartoon allows focus on Dick as Nightwing and his grow, but it's because the nature of the show. At some point, Young Justice cartoon will end. Also, Young Justice don't affect Batman franchise on general.

The comics mantain the hierarchry with JL at the top. That's why they can focus on young teams, but it's difficult for other superheroe adult teams.

[Godlike13]

But why have the YJ or Titans show focus on Dick, and build to Nightwing at all if DC is not invested or don’t want to invest in him. Those shows are investments. They’re exposing him to larger audiences with these shows. Why are they doing that then. Why is he in those shows, and why did they let YJ build to Nightwing and are having Titans do the same if they are not invested or don’t want to invest in the character as a young adult. That doesn’t make any sense to me.
How is it that they want to increase his exposure more and more outside of comics, but then at the same time in comics want to decrease his exposer, lower his creative quality, and turn him into a hobo. That’s not typically what they do with characters that are seeing similar kind of exposure outside of comics. Though I’m still confused how his book gets the double ship, but then they can’t be bother to manage a proper creative team or matain a direction. Why even publish a book with him at all when they clearly either don’t want to, or just can’t manage, to support the book with basic necessities. Let alone twice a month.

[Konja7]

Then why have the YJ or Titans show focus on Dick and build to Nightwing at all if DC is not invested or don’t want to invest in him. Those shows are investments. They’re exposing him to larger audiences with these shows. Why are they doing that if they are not invested or don’t want to invest in the character. Why is he in those shows, and why did they let YJ build to Nightwing and are having Titans do the same. That doesn’t make any sense to me.
How is it that they want to increase his exposure more and more outside of comics, but then at the same time in comics want to decrease his exposer, lower his creative quality, and turn him into a hobo. Though at the same time I’m still confused how his books gets the double ship, but they can’t be bother to manage a proper creative team or mantian a direction.

Although the double ship confuse me, I think I can understand the exposition of Dick Grayson in Young Justice or Titans.


Dick Grayson as Robin is well known in general audience (even between people who doesn't know his real name). Although Nightwing isn't so well known, the concept of Dick Robin becoming independent and leaving the shadow of Batman is pretty popular.

So, it isn't weird that they promote this concept for Young Justice and Titans. After all, these are finite shows and elseworlds, so they can develop Dick as they want.


In change, comics are infinite media and DC has a hierarchy (where Batman is the top).

The concept of Dick as Nightwing becoming independent and leaving the shadow of Batman lost its force over time, so they need new evolutions for the character. However, they don't want Batman to feel old, so they don't allow a new grow for Dick.

[Godlike13]

Comics can develop Dick as they want too. They are in control of Dick’s age and how he develops. For instance they are allowing him to grow into a homeless taxi driver, even called it the next evolution of Dick Grayson, and they are the ones that put him under writers that write him like he’s ancient. If the want him to come off younger, they can easily do that. They’re in control of this.

I understand that they are afraid the he’ll make Batman too old, what I’m not understanding is how introducing the character and the concept of Nightwing to more audiences outside of comics is leading to the character being pulled from books, isolation, and a downgrade in creative quality. I also don’t think its completely fair to say that DC doesn’t want to invest in the character or his generation, cause if that was the case the Titans tv show wouldn’t be going on right now.
Now clearly the comics side doesn’t seem to want to invest more into Dick or his gen. But then again, when it comes to comics, why are they even publishing his book then, and what more then why did they double it’s production. To me all this seems weird. Even if they’ll afraid he’ll make Batman seem too old and so don’t want to come up with new ideas to for Dick to grow from, then why is he currently a homeless taxi driver and why are the telling us how it’s the next evolution of Dick Grayson.
I’m starting to think that even when it comes to comics it’s not that they don’t necessarily want to invest more, but that they just put him in hands of management that are bad at following through with ideas and putting things together.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

this is the last thing dick needs. This is why he's always just a side character in batman stuff and never the lead in his own. If your going to go that route you might as well do a Robin show.

I prefer Spyral to Bludhaven but even then i still see the writers bringing the batfamily from time to time.

I'm not advocating making Dick's whole arc about his connection to the Batfamily. Its just easy material to use from time to time.

Family connections is an easy subplot to use.

[Rakiduam]

I prefer Spyral to Bludhaven but even then i still see the writers bringing the batfamily from time to time.

I'm not advocating making Dick's whole arc about his connection to the Batfamily. Its just easy material to use from time to time.

Family connections is an easy subplot to use.

So easy that has become overused and tiresome.

The last time an interaction with the bat family was beneficial for Dick was Damian before the current arc on Teen Titans

[Restingvoice]

Comics can develop Dick as they want too. They are in control of Dick’s age and how he develops. For instance they are allowing him to grow into a homeless taxi driver, even called it the next evolution of Dick Grayson, and they are the ones that put him under writers that write him like he’s ancient. If the want him to come off younger, they can easily do that. They’re in control of this.

I understand that they are afraid the he’ll make Batman too old, what I’m not understanding is how introducing the character and the concept of Nightwing to more audiences outside of comics is leading to the character being pulled from books, isolation, and a downgrade in creative quality. I also don’t think its completely fair to say that DC doesn’t want to invest in the character or his generation, cause if that was the case the Titans tv show wouldn’t be going on right now.
Now clearly the comics side doesn’t seem to want to invest more into Dick or his gen. But then again, when it comes to comics, why are they even publishing his book then, and what more then why did they double it’s production. To me all this seems weird. Even if they’ll afraid he’ll make Batman seem too old and so don’t want to come up with new ideas to for Dick to grow from, then why is he currently a homeless taxi driver and why are the telling us how it’s the next evolution of Dick Grayson.
I’m starting to think that even when it comes to comics it’s not that they don’t necessarily want to invest more, but that they just put him in hands of management that are bad at following through with ideas and putting things together.

...Johns. Both Titans Tv series and Rebirth in general was directed by Johns. I don't know if it was him who wanted Nightwing to double ship, but he direct where every Rebirth title would go in general. At least he's a huge proponent of returning Nightwing to the blue costume and said he had to fight Didio for that.

Then, I forgot when, Johns relinguished his authority to focus more on writing, so general direction went back to Didio.

Now as for investments, Didio saw Percy's work so he wants him to use it in the comic, which resulted in Dark Web. So far so good... if you can say replacing Humphries with Percy so soon as good... but when King proposed the amnesia story, he decided to go with that and cancel Percy's story. Why? I don't know. Since the first time he decided to bring Percy to replace Humphries is out of personal interest, I can only guess he finds amnesia Dick personally more interesting.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

You guys need to learn the difference between WB and DC. WB will continue to utilize Dick Grayson in various ways because he is a lucrative IP as Robin and as Nightwing. DC doesn't feel the same way, and see Nightwing as more of a mid-tier IP that they need to regularly publish simply for variety. That's why they don't care about the character and why they only need to see mid-tier sales to be satisfied.

[dietrich]

You guys need to learn the difference between WB and DC. WB will continue to utilize Dick Grayson in various ways because he is a lucrative IP as Robin and as Nightwing. DC doesn't feel the same way, and see Nightwing as more of a mid-tier IP that they need to regularly publish simply for variety. That's why they don't care about the character and why they only need to see mid-tier sales to be satisfied.

Yeah. We learnt the difference and that their priorities differ around Forever Evil. While some at DC were against killing Dick, they were still debating. Officially it was WB that stepping in and said no.

[dropkickjake]

Random assortment of Dick related thoughts:

1- I'm rewatching Young Justice while I put grades in for my students. This is clearly the way to do a Dick Grayson team. Hell. Its the way to portray Dick in general.

2-With Tim becoming Robin again, what is Damian up to?

3- Have we made it forward far enough into the solicits to see an end to Hobo Ric? Any word on what Dick will be up to yet?

[Badou]

Comics can develop Dick as they want too. They are in control of Dick’s age and how he develops. For instance they are allowing him to grow into a homeless taxi driver, even called it the next evolution of Dick Grayson, and they are the ones that put him under writers that write him like he’s ancient. If the want him to come off younger, they can easily do that. They’re in control of this.

I understand that they are afraid the he’ll make Batman too old, what I’m not understanding is how introducing the character and the concept of Nightwing to more audiences outside of comics is leading to the character being pulled from books, isolation, and a downgrade in creative quality. I also don’t think its completely fair to say that DC doesn’t want to invest in the character or his generation, cause if that was the case the Titans tv show wouldn’t be going on right now.
Now clearly the comics side doesn’t seem to want to invest more into Dick or his gen. But then again, when it comes to comics, why are they even publishing his book then, and what more then why did they double it’s production. To me all this seems weird. Even if they’ll afraid he’ll make Batman seem too old and so don’t want to come up with new ideas to for Dick to grow from, then why is he currently a homeless taxi driver and why are the telling us how it’s the next evolution of Dick Grayson.
I’m starting to think that even when it comes to comics it’s not that they don’t necessarily want to invest more, but that they just put him in hands of management that are bad at following through with ideas and putting things together.

Well I think the live action Titans show wasn't something they were exactly quick to do. So it isn't like DC/WB were eager to do this and kind of just ran out of properties to adapt. They already have Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Justice League, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Constantine, Suicide Squad, Flash, Green Arrow, Supergirl, a pre Batman Gotham series, and some random other superhero team in LoS. So Titans is kind of their last somewhat well known property they could adapt.

But as for just the comics side I just don't think DC cares enough. Like we've said many times they know they can just throw a creative team together and the book will be a mid level seller and even double ship it and have it do okay where they don't need to put much effort in. I don't think it is more complicated than that. Although the sales are starting to slip a lot and aren't doing well. Nightwing isn't a property DC will ever invest much in with the comics because in their eyes he is just a lesser Batman stuck in a lesser Gotham. There are no creators that are jumping at the chance to write Nightwing and it is a property that DC has no desire to use in bigger DCU events or have the character play a bigger role in the DCU when they already have Batman doing it. We are over 7 years since the reboot and the character still has barely gained anything in that time. Outside the Grayson series and tying him to Spyral he hasn't really gained anything that offset everything he lost since the reboot.

So basically it is a property that isn't really a high priority for them and has no creators that have any level of influence that hold the character in high regard. So he is kind of stuck where he is with no signs of advancement. Maybe how much the character is fucked over by editorial and how heavily managed he is might be a factor too, but there is no Palmiotti and Conner fighting to write a Nightwing series like they did with Harley Quinn, no Morrison that is interested in writing Nightwing like how he wants to redesign the Green Lantern mythos, no Priest that feels empowered and passionate about writing Nightwing the way he is with Deathstroke, no Johns that feels tied to Nightwing the way he is with Shazam, no Rucka or G. Willow Wilson that wants to do a new Nightwing run the way they wanted to with Wonder Woman, no Lobdell that feels ownership of Nghtwing the way he feels of Red Hood and always put him in the best position he can, and of course no Bendis that can take control of the Nightwing property the way he can with Superman or Young Justice. There is just no one out there like that. Seeley was the closest, but I think he mainly felt responsibility to not abandon the character after Grayson ended and was frustrated with big parts of his Nightwing run.