Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2018

[WonderNight]

I was listening to a podcast with King on it and came back with two important takeaways regarding Dick’s situation regarding Batman 55 and beyond.

Firstly, King said that the idea that Dick was getting his name changed was silly. So it seems like Bleeding Cool was full of shit on that one.

Secondly, King had talked about how part of his initial plan for Batman was to put a “young, African-American male” (read as Duke) in the cowl, though he indicated that he has backed off that plan somewhat. But given the final chapter of “I Am Gotham,” King’s actions seem clear. Bruce is going to stop being Batman soon, probably the teased event of Batman #75. Given his history and experience, Dick is the obvious choice to step into the cowl. King said that that has been played out before, which is why he provided such little fanfare on the matter in Batman 53-55. In order to make someone else the Bat, King is taking Dick off the board.

If my hunch is true, it’s certainly frustrating.

yeap Nightwing gets burned again for still being sidekick. Because " he's gotta be so close to the overcrowded family" right? He can't even have his own narrative and place.

So we lost Grayson for this. Nightwing couldn't join JL:O because that's not Batman lite enough.

This is not the 90's red hood is here, let him do the dark gritty street thing. Nightwing (like the person got the name form) should be about crazy epic adventures, just like his sliver age robin days, NNT days and Grayson.

We don't need Batman lite the sidekick any more. Especially with all the bats we have running around now.

[Godlike13]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a new Nightwing to go along. They were tempted to do that last time.

It’s all just frustrating. What does Nightwing readers get for supporting 50 issues and a double ship. A burial of the character, and Scott Lobdell to come up with something last minute. I mean WTF. It’s not like they a swimming in characters that can do that.

[Rakiduam]

I was listening to a podcast with King on it and came back with two important takeaways regarding Dick’s situation regarding Batman 55 and beyond.

Firstly, King said that the idea that Dick was getting his name changed was silly. So it seems like Bleeding Cool was full of shit on that one.

Secondly, King had talked about how part of his initial plan for Batman was to put a “young, African-American male” (read as Duke) in the cowl, though he indicated that he has backed off that plan somewhat. But given the final chapter of “I Am Gotham,” King’s actions seem clear. Bruce is going to stop being Batman soon, probably the teased event of Batman #75. Given his history and experience, Dick is the obvious choice to step into the cowl. King said that that has been played out before, which is why he provided such little fanfare on the matter in Batman 53-55. In order to make someone else the Bat, King is taking Dick off the board.

If my hunch is true, it’s certainly frustrating.

Pfff just think how frustanting would be for Bruce; all those years dedicated to training, learning, sharpening their skills before using the cowl, when a 16 years old can do the same in less than two years. What a waste of effort and time. Luke would make more sense if they are going that route.

[Shadow Myyst]

I was listening to a podcast with King on it and came back with two important takeaways regarding Dick’s situation regarding Batman 55 and beyond.

Firstly, King said that the idea that Dick was getting his name changed was silly. So it seems like Bleeding Cool was full of shit on that one.

Secondly, King had talked about how part of his initial plan for Batman was to put a “young, African-American male” (read as Duke) in the cowl, though he indicated that he has backed off that plan somewhat. But given the final chapter of “I Am Gotham,” King’s actions seem clear. Bruce is going to stop being Batman soon, probably the teased event of Batman #75. Given his history and experience, Dick is the obvious choice to step into the cowl. King said that that has been played out before, which is why he provided such little fanfare on the matter in Batman 53-55. In order to make someone else the Bat, King is taking Dick off the board.

If my hunch is true, it’s certainly frustrating.

I don't mind there being a new Batman. I don't want Dick going back to being Batman. But to sideline him by striping him of what makes him so likeable? To take away his personality? His ties and connections again? They got lucky with Grayson. Grayson wasn't supposed to be as good as it was. It kinda feels lazy. They couldn't just have Dick on a grand mission bigger than Batman to where he couldn't step into the cowl? Dick move. I just want a Nightwing not dictated by what's going on in Batman

[Godlike13]

Pfff just think how frustanting would be for Bruce; all those years dedicated to training, learning, sharpening their skills before using the cowl, when a 16 years old can do the same in less than two years. What a waste of effort and time. Luke would make more sense if they are going that route.

Well the underling theme to these new Batmans is how ultimately in the end Batman needs to be Bruce. Even with Dick’s run as Batman I think that was the idea at first, but between Dick and Damian being so much fun that got lost a little. Even Morrison started to have so much fun with them that it almost became like, well, maybe not.

[Godlike13]

I don't mind there being a new Batman. I don't want Dick going back to being Batman. But to sideline him by striping him of what makes him so likeable? To take away his personality? His ties and connections again? They got lucky with Grayson. Grayson wasn't supposed to be as good as it was. It kinda feels lazy. They couldn't just have Dick on a grand mission bigger than Batman to where he couldn't step into the cowl? Dick move. I just want a Nightwing not dictated by what's going on in Batman

This is lazy. Thats why it’s come down to Scott Lobdell to have to quickly come up with something last minute.
Instead of coming up with a real plan to take him off the table, and putting real effort in creating a direction and story that would accomplish that while also keeping things with him fresh and interesting, they tried to just throw something together and pass it off on to whoever was already on his book. With no care to what they were actually doing, or if they actually even had a story for it. And surprise, surprise it fell apart and became a mess before it even began. The management behind the character right now is bad. It honestly looks like they are not even trying.

[Badou]

Shame how king is throwing the character under the bus despite using the character in Grayson to help launch his career. This all just fucking sucks.

You look around and you see them putting Grant Morrison on the Green Lantern book, Johns is going to write Shazam, they let Priest do what he wanted on Deathstroke and pushed it, how they promote the hell out of King's Mister Miracle, put Bendis on Superman and also promote the hell out of it, constantly push Harley Quinn, and so much more but Dick as DC's 3rd most published character gets his solo book constantly dragged through the mud and direction constantly changed pushing creators away from it, and the character, while making him irrelevant in big DCU stories like Doomsday Clock, No Justice, Metal, HiC, or if they use him it is just to push Batman's story like in Forever Evil. Then to top it off they put him in Titans and for years let Abnett dumb on, undermine, and write him as some pathetic child to the JL. It is all just so frustrating. I don't blame writers for not wanting to use the character or write his solo.

It feels like there has been a consistent pattern since the New 52 to devalue the character in the DCU. You look back at the beginning of the New 52 where DC removed all his DCU connections by erasing them or giving what he had to others. Then his solo book had so many forced direction changes all through the New 52 but we somehow ended up with the Grayson series, which was an unexpected surprise, and it was the most fun I had following the character since Morrison was writing him as Batman, but even that got screwed over in the end by DC forcing new direction changes. What could have been a story to really build up the character in the DCU with what King and Seeley were planning up to 50 issues with all these different spies and organizations was never realized and we got some poor fill in writers to finish off the Grayson series. He was forced back into Bludhaven away from the DCU to do nothing exciting. Though before this they finally put him back on the Titans, but then Abnett spent years just showing how ineffective Dick is and just treating the character like crap. Then now with Rebirth through more creative changes Percy had a story planned that was supposed to show Dick's worth in the DCU, but again it was cut short and cancelled with a creator walking away and forcing Dick to regress back to Bludhaven and away from the DCU with some dumb fill in writer like Lobdell taking over to write a story no one believes in.

I just feel like there is a contingent at DC that view Dick as an obstacle, where his only value is being used to push Batman's story. Where they actively try to weaken his presence in the DCU. The idea that one day DC will suddenly start to push Nightwing as much as the characters he sells as well as will never happen. They just don't view the property like that and will continue to undermine the character going forward. I just feel really burnt out about it all.

[Frontier]

I was listening to a podcast with King on it and came back with two important takeaways regarding Dick’s situation regarding Batman 55 and beyond.

Firstly, King said that the idea that Dick was getting his name changed was silly. So it seems like Bleeding Cool was full of shit on that one.

Secondly, King had talked about how part of his initial plan for Batman was to put a “young, African-American male” (read as Duke) in the cowl, though he indicated that he has backed off that plan somewhat. But given the final chapter of “I Am Gotham,” King’s actions seem clear. Bruce is going to stop being Batman soon, probably the teased event of Batman #75. Given his history and experience, Dick is the obvious choice to step into the cowl. King said that that has been played out before, which is why he provided such little fanfare on the matter in Batman 53-55. In order to make someone else the Bat, King is taking Dick off the board.

If my hunch is true, it’s certainly frustrating.

That explains why he completely dropped Duke after the third arc .

But there had to have been better ways of getting Dick out of the way then this.

[Godlike13]

Shame how king is throwing the character under the bus despite using the character in Grayson to help launch his career. This all just fucking sucks.

You look around and you see them putting Grant Morrison on the Green Lantern book, Johns is going to write Shazam, they let Priest do what he wanted on Deathstroke and pushed it, how they promote the hell out of King's Mister Miracle, put Bendis on Superman and also promote the hell out of it, constantly push Harley Quinn, and so much more but Dick as DC's 3rd most published character gets his solo book constantly dragged through the mud and direction constantly changed pushing creators away from it, and the character, while making him irrelevant in big DCU stories like Doomsday Clock, No Justice, Metal, HiC, or if they use him it is just to push Batman's story like in Forever Evil. Then to top it off they put him in Titans and for years let Abnett dumb on, undermine, and write him as some pathetic child to the JL. It is all just so frustrating. I don't blame writers for not wanting to use the character or write his solo.

It feels like there has been a consistent pattern since the New 52 to devalue the character in the DCU. You look back at the beginning of the New 52 where DC removed all his DCU connections by erasing them or giving what he had to others. Then his solo book had so many forced direction changes all through the New 52 but we somehow ended up with the Grayson series, which was an unexpected surprise, and it was the most fun I had following the character since Morrison was writing him as Batman, but even that got screwed over in the end by DC forcing new direction changes. What could have been a story to really build up the character in the DCU with what King and Seeley were planning up to 50 issues with all these different spies and organizations was never realized and we got some poor fill in writers to finish off the Grayson series. He was forced back into Bludhaven away from the DCU to do nothing exciting. Though before this they finally put him back on the Titans, but then Abnett spent years just showing how ineffective Dick is and just treating the character like crap. Then now with Rebirth through more creative changes Percy had a story planned that was supposed to show Dick's worth in the DCU, but again it was cut short and cancelled with a creator walking away and forcing Dick to regress back to Bludhaven and away from the DCU with some dumb fill in writer like Lobdell taking over to write a story no one believes in.

I just feel like there is a contingent at DC that view Dick as an obstacle, where his only value is being used to push Batman's story. Where they actively try to weaken his presence in the DCU. The idea that one day DC will suddenly start to push Nightwing as much as the characters he sells as well as will never happen. They just don't view the property like that and will continue to undermine the character going forward. I just feel really burnt out about it all.

Ya even just look at Red Hood and Batgirl. With there shiny new costumes to go with and help promote their new directions. Honestly it’s hard not to feel burnt out about this. They are not just treating the character like crap, they are treating his readers like crap.

[WonderNight]

Shame how king is throwing the character under the bus despite using the character in Grayson to help launch his career. This all just fucking sucks.

You look around and you see them putting Grant Morrison on the Green Lantern book, Johns is going to write Shazam, they let Priest do what he wanted on Deathstroke and pushed it, how they promote the hell out of King's Mister Miracle, put Bendis on Superman and also promote the hell out of it, constantly push Harley Quinn, and so much more but Dick as DC's 3rd most published character gets his solo book constantly dragged through the mud and direction constantly changed pushing creators away from it, and the character, while making him irrelevant in big DCU stories like Doomsday Clock, No Justice, Metal, HiC, or if they use him it is just to push Batman's story like in Forever Evil. Then to top it off they put him in Titans and for years let Abnett dumb on, undermine, and write him as some pathetic child to the JL. It is all just so frustrating. I don't blame writers for not wanting to use the character or write his solo.

It feels like there has been a consistent pattern since the New 52 to devalue the character in the DCU. You look back at the beginning of the New 52 where DC removed all his DCU connections by erasing them or giving what he had to others. Then his solo book had so many forced direction changes all through the New 52 but we somehow ended up with the Grayson series, which was an unexpected surprise, and it was the most fun I had following the character since Morrison was writing him as Batman, but even that got screwed over in the end by DC forcing new direction changes. What could have been a story to really build up the character in the DCU with what King and Seeley were planning up to 50 issues with all these different spies and organizations was never realized and we got some poor fill in writers to finish off the Grayson series. He was forced back into Bludhaven away from the DCU to do nothing exciting. Though before this they finally put him back on the Titans, but then Abnett spent years just showing how ineffective Dick is and just treating the character like crap. Then now with Rebirth through more creative changes Percy had a story planned that was supposed to show Dick's worth in the DCU, but again it was cut short and cancelled with a creator walking away and forcing Dick to regress back to Bludhaven and away from the DCU with some dumb fill in writer like Lobdell taking over to write a story no one believes in.

I just feel like there is a contingent at DC that view Dick as an obstacle, where his only value is being used to push Batman's story. Where they actively try to weaken his presence in the DCU. The idea that one day DC will suddenly start to push Nightwing as much as the characters he sells as well as will never happen. They just don't view the property like that and will continue to undermine the character going forward. I just feel really burnt out about it all.

it's because dc views the character as Batman's sidekick! He's Batman Jr to them and they'll never let a sidekick/Jr overshadow the main hero. Nightwing has to become something more/different than that in there eyes something that doesn't step on Batman's toes.

Grayson gave us the blueprint, he just needs to have agent 37 adventures but as nightwing and stronger connections to the wider dcu.

This Batman lite/Jr bludhaven/titans stuff is damaging the character because they hurt him far more than help.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

Ya even just look at Red Hood and Batgirl. With there shiny new costumes to go with and help promote their new directions. Honestly it’s hard not to feel burnt out about this. They are not just treating the character like crap, they are treating his readers like crap.

hey idk what you mean, they gave him a whole new haircut! This whole thing is totally a big deal!

[Pohzee]

I don't want a costume change for Dick. It's almost perfect as-is. And Batgirl and Red Hood's new costumes look horrible.

[Godlike13]

I don't want a costume change for Dick. It's almost perfect as-is. And Batgirl and Red Hood's new costumes look horrible.

That’s not really the point.

[Pohzee]

That’s not really the point.

Well, he's getting a change in direction too: it's just a sucky mess.

[Godlike13]

Well, he's getting a change in direction too: it's just a sucky mess.

Point is they seemingly put no earnest effort in this so called new direction for Nightwing. While with Red Hood and Batgirl they have the creative teams set, stories for their new direction ready, and even shiny brand new costume designs to help promote these new directions.
Now while you might not like their new costumes, and like Nightwing’s current costume, DC going out and commissioning new designs to compliment and promote their new directions is more effort and preparation then they seem have put in Nightwing’s change in direction altogether.