Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2018

[dietrich]

Dc should focus on Nightwing and batman being different in 3 key areas.

1) If Batman is about protecting his city, nightwing should be globetrotting.

2) If Batman is the street level detective. Than nightwing should be about epic espionage adventures.

3) If Batman is dark and gritty, nightwing should be fun and sexy.

Just make it Grayson with everone in superhero costumes, Then build form there.

I actually like this. Best of both worlds.

[WonderNight]

Yeah all the things that nightwing and Batman overlap on in there day to day has to go.

That means no more m street level detective story's in a dark gritty city. Nightwing has to be different hero than Batman.

Nightwing can't just be Batman with sticks.

[Aahz]

This is the issue with Didio’s argument, he says this but then what was his plan with IC? To kill Dick and make Jason Todd Nightwing LoL. And if this is such an issue for him, why was Red Robin a thing and trying to do exactly what Nightwing did, why was Red Hood running around with Roy and Starfire and being only like 2 years younger then Dick a thing. And on top of that they bring in Batwing and Talon. Why is this issue of his only a problem when it comes to Nightwing and Wally.

The thing with Batwing and Talon is that they are not Bruce's sons and are therefore not aging him up (the same goes for Batwoman and the Batgirls).
And Red Robin was only a thing while Dick was Nightwing, in the new 52 Tim was basically doing Robin stuff again despite the name change.
When it comes the Jason, the Outlaws are quite differnt from the Titans (or Outsiders) even with Roy and Kory on the team (even is I agree that this line up was not a great idea and that the age differnce between Jason and Dick should be bigger).

[Badou]

Dc should focus on Nightwing and batman being different in 3 key areas.

1) If Batman is about protecting his city, nightwing should be globetrotting.

2) If Batman is the street level detective. Than nightwing should be about epic espionage adventures.

3) If Batman is dark and gritty, nightwing should be fun and sexy.

Just make it Grayson with everone in superhero costumes, Then build form there.

I wish this could work, but the problem is that Batman does everything. Batman protects his city, but also does globetrotting. Not just globetrotting but he also goes on space adventures at the same time. He also does street level detective work but does espionage on the side. Even creates espionage/spy teams regularly. He fights aliens, masked killers, demons, gods, and whatever else they want. The only thing he doesn't do would be fun and more lighthearted stories, but I don't know if that is a niche that can carry Nightwing completely out of his current situation. Especially when management wants their characters to be miserable.

The fundamental problem is that Batman does so much they would rather use him than Nightwing. They could have done a big Deathstroke vs Nightwing story, but Batman is more appealing. Not just to DC but also to the creators and readers as well, and that is the problem we constantly run into. Why invest in Nightwing when they can just use Batman? Or even Robin? I think that is the way Didio looks at it. It circles back around to the whole Justice League discussion. Nigthwing should be on the JL by now but they will never put him on the JL while Batman is there because they feel it is redundant. So an adult hero in Nightwing is stuck being treated like a teen while he is stuck in Titans or they constantly look for excuses to not put him on the JL where Batman is because they don't want them to overlap.

They just need to realize that it is okay if they overlap. People view them as different characters with different personalities that can act independently of each other even if they are on the same team or area working together, but I guess they feel if Nightwing is around Batman on the JL it would also make Batman look too old? Which is a big issue Didio has as well and it is better to just keep Nightwing in the Batman world in his little niche where they can sacrifice him to make Batman angsty when they want. I don't know, it is all so annoying.

[byrd156]

I wish this could work, but the problem is that Batman does everything. Batman protects his city, but also does globetrotting. Not just globetrotting but he also goes on space adventures at the same time. He also does street level detective work but does espionage on the side. Even creates espionage/spy teams regularly. He fights aliens, masked killers, demons, gods, and whatever else they want. The only thing he doesn't do would be fun and more lighthearted stories, but I don't know if that is a niche that can carry Nightwing completely out of his current situation. Especially when management wants their characters to be miserable.

The fundamental problem is that Batman does so much they would rather use him than Nightwing. They could have done a big Deathstroke vs Nightwing story, but Batman is more appealing. Not just to DC but also to the creators and readers as well, and that is the problem we constantly run into. Why invest in Nightwing when they can just use Batman? Or even Robin? I think that is the way Didio looks at it. It circles back around to the whole Justice League discussion. Nigthwing should be on the JL by now but they will never put him on the JL while Batman is there because they feel it is redundant. So an adult hero in Nightwing is stuck being treated like a teen while he is stuck in Titans or they constantly look for excuses to not put him on the JL where Batman is because they don't want them to overlap.

They just need to realize that it is okay if they overlap. People view them as different characters with different personalities that can act independently of each other even if they are on the same team or area working together, but I guess they feel if Nightwing is around Batman on the JL it would also make Batman look too old? Which is a big issue Didio has as well and it is better to just keep Nightwing in the Batman world in his little niche where they can sacrifice him to make Batman angsty when they want. I don't know, it is all so annoying.

The problem is Didio and the heads at DC. Fans know these characters are different but DC refuses to acknowledge them with anything positive anymore.

[Vinsanity]

I think Didio just likes trolling people to get 'em going.

This.

He loves it because it gets interaction.

[Godlike13]

The thing with Batwing and Talon is that they are not Bruce's sons and are therefore not aging him up (the same goes for Batwoman and the Batgirls).
And Red Robin was only a thing while Dick was Nightwing, in the new 52 Tim was basically doing Robin stuff again despite the name change.
When it comes the Jason, the Outlaws are quite differnt from the Titans (or Outsiders) even with Roy and Kory on the team (even is I agree that this line up was not a great idea and that the age differnce between Jason and Dick should be bigger).

Batwing and Talon were new characters with notable similarities to already existing characters and doing similar things. They were very redundant.
New 52 Tim literally just did what Nightwing did, trying to recreate his generation’s version of NTT.
RHatO stared a former Robin that is basically the same age Dick, and two familiar Titans finding thier way together. It wasn’t that different. It even touched on Titan like stories like its version of space adventures with Starfire. It hardly filled some unique role.

[WonderNight]

It's funny how nightwing and Batman are supposed to be so redundant, but we have 2 robins, 2 superboys, 2 flashes and 7 green lanterns all at the same time. it's stupid.

[Restingvoice]

It's funny how nightwing and Batman are supposed to be so redundant, but we have 2 robins, 2 superboys, 2 flashes and 7 green lanterns all at the same time. it's stupid.

The 2 Flash are considered redundant though. Superboy and Robin remains to be seen, but they had to get rid of Kon at first when they introduce Jon. Now fans are worried about both Damian and Jon's status, noting that the Super Sons title has to be out of continuity. Green Lantern is the safest because right of the bat they're a corps, so having multiple people isn't a problem branding wise. The problem comes from who gets the screen time.

[Konja7]

Dc should focus on Nightwing and batman being different in 3 key areas.

1) If Batman is about protecting his city, nightwing should be globetrotting.

2) If Batman is the street level detective. Than nightwing should be about epic espionage adventures.

3) If Batman is dark and gritty, nightwing should be fun and sexy.

Just make it Grayson with everone in superhero costumes, Then build form there.

They won't do that, because DC wants that Batmans everything (except the funny). I dare to say that even Batma's fans will be upset if Batman is limited.

So, Nightwing will suffer, since he's so connected to Batman.

It's funny how nightwing and Batman are supposed to be so redundant, but we have 2 robins, 2 superboys, 2 flashes and 7 green lanterns all at the same time. it's stupid.

To be fair, except in Green Lanterns case (which are part of an organization), they had always tried to avoid repeating names. There were exceptions, but these were because the circumstances on the story forced them (and they got rid of the repeated name as soon as they could).

Young Justice seems to be the first time they try to repeat superhero names with full intention. This is based on nostalgia.

[Aahz]

Batwing and Talon were new characters with notable similarities to already existing characters and doing similar things. They were very redundant.

Theyare redundant but Didlios Argument was that Nightwing ages Batman, and thats something Batwing and Talon don't do.

New 52 Tim literally just did what Nightwing did, trying to recreate his generation’s version of NTT.

Not really the NTT were mostly young adults, the New 52 TT were still teens. and the cast was mostly identical with Tim's generation of Titans from his time as Robin.

[Godlike13]

Theyare redundant but Didlios Argument was that Nightwing ages Batman, and thats something Batwing and Talon don't do.

Not really the NTT were mostly young adults, the New 52 TT were still teens. and the cast was mostly identical with Tim's generation of Titans from his time as Robin.

-"DiDio says that the problem is that as characters get older, they start to get more and more similar and DC keeps having characters fill similar roles."

-NTT started as teens too. It’s literally in the name. They had Tim following the same path as Nightwing. Which if this is such a problem for him, why have Tim follow the same path as it only lead to the same situation. Just even more compounded.

[Konja7]

-NTT started as teens too. It’s literally in the name. They had Tim following the same path as Nightwing. Which if this is such a problem for him, why have Tim follow the same path as it only lead to the same situation. Just even more compounded.

They just do not think long term.


This must have been his line of thought:

They had no problem when Dick was a teenager, so they do not have a problem with Tim being a teenager too. They can make a profit from Teen Titans franchise.

When Tim start to become an adult and "makes" Batman look old, they will deal with him.


PS: In fact, Tim looks younger than before in Young Justice.

[Aahz]

NTT started as teens too. It’s literally in the name. They had Tim following the same path as Nightwing. Which if this is such a problem for him, why have Tim follow the same path as it only lead to the same situation. Just even more compounded.

Appart from Beast Boy, all founding members of the were 18 or 19 when the NTT series started, and the Fab 5 had at this point (in real time) graduated from high school more than a decade ago and had in some cases started careers and (later in the series) families.
The new 52 Titans are more comparable to the original versions of the Titans (from the 60s) than with the NTT.

[WhipWhirlwind]

-"DiDio says that the problem is that as characters get older, they start to get more and more similar and DC keeps having characters fill similar roles."

-NTT started as teens too. It’s literally in the name. They had Tim following the same path as Nightwing. Which if this is such a problem for him, why have Tim follow the same path as it only lead to the same situation. Just even more compounded.

Isn't this Didio moving the goalposts?

Did Grayson age Dick Grayson, did his run on Batman and Robin age him? In my opinion fans don't want Nightwing to age, they just want him to find his own place as an adult superhero.

I also thought the whole point of Snyder basically rebooting Bruce physically was so that he could age and still be in his physical prime. I see no issue why Damian can't be eternally early teens, Tim can be eternally late teens, Dick in his mid 20s, Bruce in his mid 30s. Then if they want to age some of the younger kids they can just do something like what Snyder did in Endgame to keep Bruce "Young"

This whole thing just makes me so angry.