Damian Wayne: Robin Appreciation 2018

[dietrich]

I'm sorry, I was rude.

You're right. It's fair that you find other cultures and background interesting.

I just would not use it as an argument for diversity. However, that's just my opinion.

No worries dude.

[Aahz]

I like Damian with white skin, but keeping his culture.

Damian doesn't really have a culture.

If you go by "Birth of the Demon" Ras is not religious, and it is not even really clear if his people were Muslim (they are only shown to sacrifice to demon called Bishu). It is in that story kind of ambiguous what his were, and Ras has basically erased them, their history and their language.


The League of Assassins is a very international organisation with members all over the world. And Ras himself is in many stories not residing in the middle east.


And at least in the post Flashpoint continuity Damian didn't grew up in the Middle East but was iirc raised on an Island in the Pacific.

[babybats]

I also prefer it when Damian isn't coded white/European/American. Not only because diversity/representation is important (the very existence of Cass was what made me, an Asian girl, want to start reading comics in the first place), but because the Al Ghuls are clearly made up of a bunch of "exotic" motifs plucked from Arab and Asian culture, so if you wanna use our culture and history as set dressing you better at least make the characters brown. lol

The point about light-skinned POC needing representation is a good one, though. I, personally, am more in favor of him having a little browner skin, though, because 1) without it, most readers assume he's fully white, and 2) with the stigma against dark skin, it's always nice to have a major hero be not so pale. Also, character design wise, it does add variety to the Robins. If you want to make one of them paler and brown-haired, I'd do it with Tim or maybe Jason (if we're going with his ginger incarnation).

And in terms of culture--it doesn't matter if he grew up on an island or in the mountains or whatever, there's going to be some elements of culture in his life. I don't think the Al Ghuls being religious makes sense because they're basically the head of a cult. They're like their own religion. But I think everyday things like food, clothes, crafts, music, etc. would have roots in Middle Eastern culture. Like Damian wearing a thawb. It makes more sense than if the League had adopted European or American culture, in any case.

[Konja7]

And in terms of culture--it doesn't matter if he grew up on an island or in the mountains or whatever, there's going to be some elements of culture in his life. I don't think the Al Ghuls being religious makes sense because they're basically the head of a cult. They're like their own religion. But I think everyday things like food, clothes, crafts, music, etc. would have roots in Middle Eastern culture. Like Damian wearing a thawb. It makes more sense than if the League had adopted European or American culture, in any case.

Exactly.

Culture isn't only about religion. There are many elements of a culture like traditions, food, music, etc. We have seem Damian with some elements of this (I really like these moments).


As I said, I like Damian with white skin, because he isn't white even then. However, it's true that DC has big problems with the diversity.

[Armor of God]

Its not Bendis that concerns me, but DC. We know how they are in these situations. Like you even bring up, its what DC even did last time they tried to launch a line around them. Regardless if it succeeds or fails, its what DC does in preparation that concerns me. This Chris Kenting of Jon doesn’t bode well.

And Nightwing is probably not long for this world, and honestly the Titans books too i don’t see much of a future for.

I think a year or two might be tough but SC will never abandon the Titans line, Nightwing or Damian. Everything comes back full circle imo.

[Aahz]

But I think everyday things like food, clothes, crafts, music, etc. would have roots in Middle Eastern culture.

When I look at Damians up brining, I don't think thats the case.

He was raised on an isolated island, and a teachers that came from all over the world. If you go by Robin #0 at least his teachers in music and painting seemed to be European.

And I you look at his weapons and costume there is definitely a stronger Japanese and maybe Chinese Influence.

[Armor of God]

The costume is Persian inspired.

[Aahz]

The costume is Persian inspired.

The Robin costume?
For me it looks like it was more Samurai/Ninja inspired.

[dietrich]

Driving Lessons

[dietrich]

[Jackalope89]

You can just see Damian's eye twitch. lol

[Arctic Cyclist]

And in terms of culture--it doesn't matter if he grew up on an island or in the mountains or whatever, there's going to be some elements of culture in his life. I don't think the Al Ghuls being religious makes sense because they're basically the head of a cult. They're like their own religion. But I think everyday things like food, clothes, crafts, music, etc. would have roots in Middle Eastern culture. Like Damian wearing a thawb. It makes more sense than if the League had adopted European or American culture, in any case.

Why would his roots be from the Middle East? Birth of the Demon is canon as of the Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul, Batman & Robin 23.3, All Star Batman 9, and the recent Deadman series, as is the Sensei being Ra's al Ghul's father. Anyone who has read those stories knows that Ra's is explicitly not Arab, was born during or before the rise of Islam at the beginning of the Arab expansion.

Snyder has Ra's talk about his tribe being driven west across the deserts and through the mountains and the first sights of the Nile and the monuments. As we all remember from history class, there are several extinct cultures that match what we know of Ra's' native origin in Eurasia, although we don't know much about them because they were essentially erased (like his): spoke a Chinese based language, women could hold power but not lead, possibly a matriarchy, a woman's consent was required for marriage and reproduction though not the man's, tall, European in appearance but not European, traders and raiders, nomadic, expert horse people, didn't so much as worship as placate demons.

Beyond that, we know from canon that the two cities Damian lived in before Gotham were London and Hong Kong. Pre-Flashpoint we saw Damian wearing traditional dress and using traditional Chinese blades. He likes bats, which makes sense from the viewpoint of an Asian culture, particularly Chinese, where bats are symbols of rebirth, immortality, good fortune, and fertility. In the Dick!Bats run, and later in the New 52 Simone's run of Birds of Prey we learn al Ghuls have bats as a mascot/totem animal, just like the Waynes.

None of that supports the rooted Middle Eastern culture idea, nor does most of the canon. Ra's returns to North Africa because that's where he was born. Flashpoint Ra's is Egyptian, but that's probably because one of Talia's pseudo love interests and near husbands was Egyptian in the Messiah of the Crimson Sun. The Sensei is Chinese and supposedly the Taoist monk who created the ninja. His daughters that we've seen, Ra's' half sisters, are either blonde and blue eyed (Promise) or Chinese (the unnamed one in lavender who wants Tim's baby). Dusan was albino and ambiguous, Arkady had a French mother, Nyssa's mother was a Russian Jewish peasant who caught Ra's' eye when he visited Catherine the Great.

Religion wise Rucka, Grayson, Dini, Morrison and et al all have him as a practicing Taoist. The monks and nuns who raised Damian and Talia wear traditional Taoist styles. Ra's was Zoroastrian before he became Ra's al Ghul, the destruction of the burial platforms in Resurrection and B & R 23.3 symbolized his destroying his youth with all its dreams and goals. In theory, the fact that Damian and Talia celebrate Christmas indicates otherwise as Dec 26 is a major Zoroastrian holiday, and the timing of the Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul to fall between Solstice and the 26 is not coincidental.

The novelization of Kingdom Come has Talia say she's Muslim if anything she guesses, but she's also a nun which contradicts that. I read that as more of a research fail reflecting Elliot S! Maggin's internal bais and racism more than anything else, as for some reason people forget that the Middle East is a diverse region with many micro religions and cultures stubbornly clinging to existence in the face of a millennium of persecution.

The thwab was fan pandering. The blood soup is ambiguous, but it's probably Persian or a micro culture thing as the consumption of blood is forbidden in Islam. Damian's not eating pork...I can't imagine anyone who has spent as much time with Professor Pyg as Damian has would ever eat pork again.

Although he shouldn't be coded white or American, I would expect that he looks like anyone with olive skin who doesn't get much sun: light tan or sallow. But culturally Damian is a mutt. He's al Ghul, which means he's able to assimilate anywhere in the world and doesn't have a primary single influence or native language to define his thinking. Remember, he was fully fluent in English, Cantonese, Mandarin, Spanish, Italian, French, and German by two in canon, and we know he's fluent in several other languages by ten. His brain isn't molded to a culture and that's part of his charm and struggles as a character.

[Aahz]

and the recent Deadman series, as is the Sensei being Ra's al Ghul's father.

Honestly I think the Sensei beeing Ras Father, or being a member of the League at all, was also the writers failing to do their research. Imo it doesn't make much sense based on his backstory in Deadman (or it gets at least quite convoluted), and he also doesn't really fit with how Ras people look in Birth of the Demon.

But it is imo in general a problem that the writers often tend to make a lot of assassin villains League Members even if they had originally nothing to do with the League (the Sensai was orginally the Leader of the "Society of Assassins") and have no interest in Ras Goals.

[CPSparkles]

It might be pandering but I must confess I made me simile to see him in the Thwab.

[CPSparkles]

Driving Lessons

What even happened in that last panel?