Logan: Wolverine Appreciation 2018

[Hush]

Those pages are really great!

I also read Thor: it was very enjoyable, and the art was so great. It really served the cosmic battle. Loved also the quieter scenes!

Yeah it was really epic!

Thanks, I have to shorten my time here at CBR Forums, because of real live, but I try my best!
I also have a lot of questions left, I hope most of them will be answered step by step during RoW,

spoilers:

Because I think it is not actually Persephone talking to him, it is only her image. Like the victims are also images Logan's mind recalls for his inner monologue. I actually think it is Logan telling himself that he has the power to bring it back. He has the key to unlock everything. The berserker is something Logan is running from and fighting his whole former live. It is Logan himself being afraid of this part of himself and Persephone's image is only the vessel to voice it. He maybe has the change to be free of him, but I think Logan will need the berserker at one point of Row and has to set him free. I recall the many versions of Logan running around in his mind during his fight with the demon in Aaron's Wolverine vs the X-Men. I think the wall with the three circles will be opened in issue #4 and it will reveal Logan for what he was used by soteira. That is why the woman's dead body is shown on the cover. Yes and Romulus wall should be even more massive than the wall with the circles!

end of spoilers

Edit:

I think the same!

No problem I understand! I have some free time this week so that's why I'm posting more than usual lol.

spoilers:

Regarding Persephone it would make sense, if that's just how Logan's mind is trying to cope with what's happening and it took the form of Persephone but my problem is why are the scientists telling him not to trust her and to quickly kill her? I mean technically they're inside his head and they want to help him and they knows what kind of stunt Persephone can pull off. Same for the different voices in his head: the hero (Wolverine), the killer (weapon X) and the adventurer (Patch) telling him to quickly destroy Soteira after what they did to him and what they're going to do to his friends and to world. That's why I think it's just a trap, she wants to gain Logan's trust and force him to unlock all those cells (except the berzerker) for something. But I guess we'll see I still have trouble to see what's her powers exactly, it's supposed to be something new and not just mindcontrol so who knows. Yeah that wall with the three circles should fall by the end of issue 3 after Anna told Logan the third tale and it could reveal the truth about what Logan did during the Hunt hence the sollicits: "Can Logan handle the truth of what he's done?" But honestly if that's the case and Soule's big plan was just to have Logan again used as a living weapon committing the worst atrocities you can think off it would be disappointing and honestly a poor way to bring Logan back to life in my opinion. But as TheCape said : "Wait and see". Still that thing on Logan's torso glowing like his claws is really intriguing and there is still the problem of the Infinity Gem and Logan's appearance at Kitty's wedding. If Persephone brought him back to life and sent him after the gem so he could use it to kill people all over the world and teleport to Soteira's space station why did he give it to Natasha? Why was Soteira looking for him in Madripoor? Why Logan was acting like his normal sef in Legacy and like a monster in the Hunt? It's like there is a struggle between each of Logan's personna locked in those cells and each time Logan let one out something happened in the real world but I could also be completely wrong here. In the end, it's those Legacy/Where is Wolverine/Gold/Infinity Countdown pages that are problematic and completely at odds with what's happening in Hunt/Return. Yeah I hope Romulus is behind the biggest wall you can think off, and with any luck the wall will fall on his head lol

end of spoilers

So many questions, I hope we'lle get some answers with the next issue but my guess is that the big reveal will happen at the end of the third issue and the last two issues will take place in the "real" world.


By the way on the double page from ROW that I posted, can anyone identify the character on the lower right? It looks like a rocky/diamond character similar to Roxanne Washington a.k.a Bling! or Uroc:

[Hush]

Still, he gets strangely tense when i talk him about ninjas, i wonder why?.....

Wow, Wendigo was jobbed hard, but i really want too see a proper figth between those 2. He is definetly not as strong as Hulk, considering that Logan couldn't pierce Banner skin in their first figth but he was able penetrate Wendigo's and of course there is their second figth in Claremont's run, when Lpgan is able to surprise him and knock the ligths out of him, for a short while (it wasn't much but still pretty impressive), althougth he wasn't able to pierce his skin in that case thougth lol. Comsidering that Creed is only a bit stronger than Logan, i don't think thatbit would be a big difference, but it could show their differences in how they figth.

That phone call at the end was great and yeah that cult is definetly mess up.

Those damn ninjas lol.

Yeah poor Wendy, he's not as strong or durable as the Hulk but I think he's almost in the same ballpark power wise but a real fight between Creed and the Wendigo could be fun if Creed use his head and fight smart.

That first fight between Hulk and Wolverine was really strange and I still don't understand why Logan couldn't pierce his skin since he did it during WWH when Hulk was at his strongest (Logan got demolished in that fight lol), he even gave Hulk a lobotomy in the Savage Wolverine serie (albeit it was a sneak attack and Hulk quickly got back on his feet) or even recently with Old Man Logan fighting the Maestro (that one is also strange no way the Old Man could stand against the Maestro lol).

That fight between Logan and Wendigo was really good, especially when Snowbird became an actual Wolverine and defeat the Wendigo. I also like the one during the Dezago run, Logan was really lucky lol.

I don't know how much stronger Creed is compared to Logan, I know he managed to knock down Rogue once and he can lift up until 10 tons which is quite a lot compared to Logan. Well he also made Wolverine fly like a bird once too:

[TheCape]

Thanks, I have to shorten my time here at CBR Forums, because of real live, but I try my best!
I also have a lot of questions left, I hope most of them will be answered step by step during RoW,

spoilers:

Because I think it is not actually Persephone talking to him, it is only her image. Like the victims are also images Logan's mind recalls for his inner monologue. I actually think it is Logan telling himself that he has the power to bring it back. He has the key to unlock everything. The berserker is something Logan is running from and fighting his whole former live. It is Logan himself being afraid of this part of himself and Persephone's image is only the vessel to voice it. He maybe has the change to be free of him, but I think Logan will need the berserker at one point of Row and has to set him free. I recall the many versions of Logan running around in his mind during his fight with the demon in Aaron's Wolverine vs the X-Men. I think the wall with the three circles will be opened in issue #4 and it will reveal Logan for what he was used by soteira. That is why the woman's dead body is shown on the cover. Yes and Romulus wall should be even more massive than the wall with the circles!

end of spoilers

Edit:

I think the same!

Don't worry man, life can be hard and as good as this hobbie can be, it doesn't pay bills. Still thanks for taking your time i really like your theories in this case and i actually thougth on something similar, like Berserkerclaw said, the first issue feel in some way like a dream than something real.

[TheCape]

Those damn ninjas lol.

Yeah poor Wendy, he's not as strong or durable as the Hulk but I think he's almost in the same ballpark power wise but a real fight between Creed and the Wendigo could be fun if Creed use his head and fight smart.

That first fight between Hulk and Wolverine was really strange and I still don't understand why Logan couldn't pierce his skin since he did it during WWH when Hulk was at his strongest (Logan got demolished in that fight lol), he even gave Hulk a lobotomy in the Savage Wolverine serie (albeit it was a sneak attack and Hulk quickly got back on his feet) or even recently with Old Man Logan fighting the Maestro (that one is also strange no way the Old Man could stand against the Maestro lol).

That fight between Logan and Wendigo was really good, especially when Snowbird became an actual Wolverine and defeat the Wendigo. I also like the one during the Dezago run, Logan was really lucky lol.

I don't know how much stronger Creed is compared to Logan, I know he managed to knock down Rogue once and he can lift up until 10 tons which is quite a lot compared to Logan. Well he also made Wolverine fly like a bird once too:

And they are everywhere, that Daredevil guy still swears that they aren't going to be a problem, but then someone now has a Japanese castle close to my home and the told me to talk to Daredevil, f#%$ weird if you ask me .

Well, to be fair Wein didn't thougth much of Logan when he did that story, he was supposed to be a teenager with superspeed in those days lol. I also remember how Way had that scene played out on Orgins again with Logan being knocked quite easily, even when speed was his adavantage toward the Hulk lol. I thougth the same about the figth between OML and Maestro, but i always assumed that he was just toying with him, considering that Logan was barely standing at the end ans Maestro was quite well in comparison, even if he recieved some nasty blows.

Yeah that story was amazing especially when Logan saved snowbird for himself, i think than that is when Claremont started to shape the characther in what he would become eventually.

Well Logan was able to puch Rogue throw a wall and has beaten her in hand to hand combat when he was the temporal leader of the X-Men. While Creed took her down in 3 swings, so i assume that the difference in that Creed can lift 2 or 3 more tons that Logan. Lol to that scene.

[Hush]

And they are everywhere, that Daredevil guy still swears that they aren't going to be a problem, but then someone now has a Japanese castle close to my home and the told me to talk to Daredevil, f#%$ weird if you ask me .

Well, to be fair Wein didn't thougth much of Logan when he did that story, he was supposed to be a teenager with superspeed in those days lol. I also remember how Way had that scene played out on Orgins again with Logan being knocked quite easily, even when speed was his adavantage toward the Hulk lol. I thougth the same about the figth between OML and Maestro, but i always assumed that he was just toying with him, considering that Logan was barely standing at the end ans Maestro was quite well in comparison, even if he recieved some nasty blows.

Yeah that story was amazing especially when Logan saved snowbird for himself, i think than that is when Claremont started to shape the characther in what he would become eventually.

Well Logan was able to puch Rogue throw a wall and has beaten her in hand to hand combat when he was the temporal leader of the X-Men. While Creed took her down in 3 swings, so i assume that the difference in that Creed can lift 2 or 3 more tons that Logan. Lol to that scene.

He should ask some advices to Mr. Logan about how to deal with ninjas, this guy seems to know his stuff:





Yeah that might be the reason, Logan's powers and origins were not set in stone at first. And now I remember how much I hated this issue by Way not because of the fight but because of what Logan did after this fight, another horrible thing to add to the list of crimes he did during Way's run and why he should have been executed a long time ago after all of this.

That might be the reason why I'm a little nervous about what Soule is currently doing with Hunt/Return especially after what happened in Claws of a Killer.

I hope that's the case because honestly Old Man Logan shouldn't stand a chance against Maestro and I'm curious to see how he intends to take him down in the next issues. I agree with you about this Uncanny X-Men issue but I think at the same time Byrne was still on the title so he was co-writing this whole Wendigo story but Claremont proved to be one of the best Wolverine writer shortly after the departure of Byrne from Uncanny X-Men with the Wolverine mini he did with Frank Miller.

That Rogue/Wolverine fight was strange, I'm just going to say she was surprised by Logan's attack the first time lol but to be honest Sabretooth shouldn't have been able to take her down even with that sneak attack.

[WeaponX]

Yes that is fun, I like your theory.
Sorry I am late to the party.

Yes I also think this happens entirely in Logan's mind.
I read RoW#1 several times and also DoW.
Here is my interpretation of what I have read.:
spoilers:

A Soteira kill team killed the lab team, the people in the camp were killed and a 15 year old boy was taken. That is the only stuff happend in reality. Why emphasize that he was 15 years old? Maybe he was one of the latent mutants, who had been taken in the events of Dead Ends. The women Logan encountered died actually with the people in the camp. Logan's empty shell body actually participated in all of this, maybe as a leader. There is no mind control involved at all, because Logan's mind wasn't there, persephone removed it. He is not at home so to speak. The Soteira kill team leader (I think he is actually Logan's resurrected body) seemed to be aware that he was followed, so he is aware that something is stirring inside of him. He is aware that Logan is catching up with him and whatever that body is or whoever controls it is fighting back, hence Logan being shot by the sniper.(metaphorical) Why Logan's mind came back at this point is a mystery, and I do not think it is intended by Persephone at all. I have no answers for the hot claws, they seem to be in reality and in Logan's mind. The 'yellow and blue' is a strong indication that everything happens in Logan's slowly resurfacing mind. Logan seems to remember mostly things which happened before his dead. The wound which does not heal is exactly where Cornelius was deadly wounded, that it does not heal is a reminiscence of Logan's lost healing factor. The memories where mostly triggered by words. Kitty, Sabertooth. The talk that the boy was injected with something from the lab (remember the latent mutants in Dead ends where also injected with something). Logan injected Cornelius three test subjects with the regen serum and this might be a connection to the incubator imagination. Cornelius talked about the adamantium bonding process as being inversive and that he had to retrieve the adamantium from the body when the test subject died. Logan's mind can't process this now, so the incubator imagination. ( memories come as pictures) So this is an inner monologue (therefore memories triggered by words) in which Logan's resurfacing mind let the victims talk to him, to remember him what was taken from him, what he should be and what he should do. The talk with Persephone ( I think it is actually a monologue as well) is a reminder who had done it to him. But his mind lets him know that he has the power to get it back. If I am correct, than the prison cells of Logan's many lives will be the construction kit Soule wants to use to build up this new Logan. And since he stated that Logan will be a changed man, I wonder which prison cells will be opened and which not during Logan's time hunting down Soteira. When I recall Auran's resurrection in Soule's inhuman run, this would be the opposite process to hers. She started out after her resurrection being EVERYTHING, a contradictory mess, because she was recreated out of memories other people had about her, and Logan will start as an empty vessel and will be reconstructed step by step and maybe some stuff will be missing.

end of spoilers
But maybe I will be dead wrong, but this would be interesting for me.

Someone at CBR must have been reading your post. Check out the most recent Wolverine article it makes some connections about the wound you made.

[TheCape]

He should ask some advices to Mr. Logan about how to deal with ninjas, this guy seems to know his stuff:





Yeah that might be the reason, Logan's powers and origins were not set in stone at first. And now I remember how much I hated this issue by Way not because of the fight but because of what Logan did after this fight, another horrible thing to add to the list of crimes he did during Way's run and why he should have been executed a long time ago after all of this.

That might be the reason why I'm a little nervous about what Soule is currently doing with Hunt/Return especially after what happened in Claws of a Killer.

I hope that's the case because honestly Old Man Logan shouldn't stand a chance against Maestro and I'm curious to see how he intends to take him down in the next issues. I agree with you about this Uncanny X-Men issue but I think at the same time Byrne was still on the title so he was co-writing this whole Wendigo story but Claremont proved to be one of the best Wolverine writer shortly after the departure of Byrne from Uncanny X-Men with the Wolverine mini he did with Frank Miller.

That Rogue/Wolverine fight was strange, I'm just going to say she was surprised by Logan's attack the first time lol but to be honest Sabretooth shouldn't have been able to take her down even with that sneak attack.

Mr Logan is such a nice guy, especially toward kids, i don't get why people keep telling me to not go to his school .

When he killed that innocent soldier for walking on him while talking with Romulus?, yeah that sucked what came rigth after was even worse thougth (i also expect for the Romulus to die under Logan's mind wall lol), i did like his interactions with the Hulk "family" thougth.

A well founded fear, but Soule seems to think of Logan as a mostly heroic figure in spite of his flaws as a man, so i'm bit more hopefull than you, granted it migth blow in my face when this is over, but someone has to be the optimis to the end lol.

OML should ask the Doom Guy, if he can borrow his BFG or go to Shadow Mosses and dig up for Rex, otherwise.... he is doomed!!!!. I think that after DPS Claremont started to take more interest on Logan, so it probably was both by that point.

Yeah, i remember watching that figth and being like "holy s%#$ Logan is that strong" and the Logan tried to hit her vital points, for what i remember Rogue was still a novice with her powers so i assume that she just was unprepared, but yeah realistically neither Creed and Logan should be able to do that lol.

[Johnatellodi]

Not much love on the web for Return of Wolverine #1. I have to admit I'm a little surprised. Steve Mcniven's pencils combined w/ the color and ink job made for one of the most beautiful Marvel comics I've seen in years. Truly great stuff - Especially the first few pages. Story-wise, it did feel a bit like we were treading water, so I can understand that complaint. I'm also disappointed Mcniven won't be on all five issues. Visually, the book won my heart though, so consider me satisfied. I'll be back for issue #5.

[Jackraow21]

It was pretty, but boring I thought. Glad to have the OG back though.

[Hush]

Mr Logan is such a nice guy, especially toward kids, i don't get why people keep telling me to not go to his school .

When he killed that innocent soldier for walking on him while talking with Romulus?, yeah that sucked what came rigth after was even worse thougth (i also expect for the Romulus to die under Logan's mind wall lol), i did like his interactions with the Hulk "family" thougth.

A well founded fear, but Soule seems to think of Logan as a mostly heroic figure in spite of his flaws as a man, so i'm bit more hopefull than you, granted it migth blow in my face when this is over, but someone has to be the optimis to the end lol.

OML should ask the Doom Guy, if he can borrow his BFG or go to Shadow Mosses and dig up for Rex, otherwise.... he is doomed!!!!. I think that after DPS Claremont started to take more interest on Logan, so it probably was both by that point.

Yeah, i remember watching that figth and being like "holy s%#$ Logan is that strong" and the Logan tried to hit her vital points, for what i remember Rogue was still a novice with her powers so i assume that she just was unprepared, but yeah realistically neither Creed and Logan should be able to do that lol.

Mr. Logan sounds nice but I heard strange stories about a danger room hided in the bathrooms of this school. Strange stuff...

Well the fact that he killed this young soldier without any remorse, on top of all the guys he killed off panel and that he was putting into body bags didn't help that's for sure and that he wanted to kill Xavier shorty after was also terrible. But hey it's Way so let's just ignore it
Oh boy if Romulus appears in this story, I hope it's just to retcon him out of existence lol.

So yeah let's hope Soule won't messed up this time around because despite the good characterization of Logan in DOW I still believe that he messed up both DOW and HOW in my opinion.

You're laughing but I'm sure that's how the Maestro is going to be defeated with Doom's time machine (since he has it), the same way he was defeated by our Hulk during the Future Imperfect story.

Not much love on the web for Return of Wolverine #1. I have to admit I'm a little surprised. Steve Mcniven's pencils combined w/ the color and ink job made for one of the most beautiful Marvel comics I've seen in years. Truly great stuff - Especially the first few pages. Story-wise, it did feel a bit like we were treading water, so I can understand that complaint. I'm also disappointed Mcniven won't be on all five issues. Visually, the book won my heart though, so consider me satisfied. I'll be back for issue #5.

It was pretty, but boring I thought. Glad to have the OG back though.

I think as Weapon X said previously, the problem comes from all this buildup we got since Logan's return in Marvel Legacy almost a year ago. A lot of people who followed all of the Legacy/Hunt saga are expecting answers by now but right now we still got more questions that's where the disappointment might come from for some readers.

As itself I think it's an enjoyable issue especially the art but yeah it's treading water for now, and the fact that McNiven is gone until the last issue is also disappointing. Now how Soule is going to make sense of everything that happened since Logan's return and what will be Logan's statu quo by the end of ROW are what going to make this whole Death/Hunt/Return worth it or not in my opinion.

But as of now, I can't blame Wolverine's fans for being underwhelmed by what Soule wrote and by how Marvel handled Logan's death and return and for just waiting until the new Wolverine ongoing next year.

[Purplevit]

Didn't like ROW. It was generic and medicore.
McNiven's art in Death of Wolverine was much better.

I hope Marvel will get a better writer for new Wolverine ongoing after ROW.

[Hush]

Didn't like ROW. It was generic and medicore.
McNiven's art in Death of Wolverine was much better.

I hope Marvel will get a better writer for new Wolverine ongoing after ROW.

McNiven's art is really different from Death of Wolverine, it's closer to the Barry Windsor-Smith's style (not as good in my opinion). It's a strange mix and I think it works well for that kind of story which is really reminiscent of the original Weapon X story but yeah I can see why you would prefer his classic style.
I like both styles to be honest since I'm a big fan of Barry Windsor-Smith but I have to admit my favourite work from McNiven is still Old Man Logan.

I do agree with you, I hope Soule won't be the next Wolverine's writer. Duggan or Priest could be interesting in my opinion.

[Purplevit]

McNiven's art is really different from Death of Wolverine, it's closer to the Barry Windsor-Smith's style (not as good in my opinion). It's a strange mix and I think it works well for that kind of story which is really reminiscent of the original Weapon X story but yeah I can see why you would prefer his classic style.
I like both styles to be honest since I'm a big fan of Barry Windsor-Smith but I have to admit my favourite work from McNiven is still Old Man Logan.

I do agree with you, I hope Soule won't be the next Wolverine's writer. Duggan or Priest could be interesting in my opinion.

New McNiven style is still good but for me his old art is one of the best in bussiness.

Duggan is no longer on Guardians so I think he will get some X-Men project next.
I think they will really surprise us with next Wolverine writer and it will be someone big who wasn't working for Marvel for some time.

[Jackraow21]

Old Man Logan was McNiven's finest work. Hands down, I will brook no arguments on the subject.

[Hush]

New McNiven style is still good but for me his old art is one of the best in bussiness.

Duggan is no longer on Guardians so I think he will get some X-Men project next.
I think they will really surprise us with next Wolverine writer and it will be someone big who wasn't working for Marvel for some time.

Oh man let's hope you're right, my dream would be for Ed Brubaker to write the new Wolverine ongoing!

Old Man Logan was McNiven's finest work. Hands down, I will brook no arguments on the subject.

You're goddamn right!