Logan: Wolverine Appreciation 2018

[TheCape]

Th€ €жţяą-๏яďɨɲąя¥ Tycon posted this in the upcoming-art-teases thread:
Wolverine:The Long Night


https://twitter.com/cracksh0t/status...38290525016064

Thanks for posting Gyl, i even recognized the scene from the podcast.

[nadler]

Thinking about it, Hama tried to connect all of this during the Wolverine -1 issue when Logan meets Myron and learns about the nature of the adamantium, Lord Dark Wind and the bonding process for the first time, such a great issue.

Given Chris's way of thinking about Wolverine was that Logan had no interest in his origins because he knew them and that as far as where the bonded skeleton, etc. came from, while he wasn't aware of this specifically it doesn’t bother him, he isn’t interested in getting revenge, unless of course he discovers the person who did it is doing it to other people… has any considered the following.

To determine which classic Marvel villain Chris intended to have bonded adamantium to Logan, perhaps we need to work from the basis of why. That is, what was their purpose for doing so? It would seem unlikely it was to punish/ hurt Logan, since adamantium was a significant investment, and it made him more invulnerable than just having a healing factor. No one operates on someone else experimentally for the subject’s benefit, except on television.

I think the question is how does it benefit the experimenter? And aside from furthering science (it’s unethical, no report of this knowledge will be made or was made, so that’s out), or testing for someone who needs a new skeleton (that happened with Bullseye, but the process wasn’t created for him)… the problem with using Logan as a test subject is that the operation only works if the subject has a healing factor. So, who, aside from him has a healing factor and wanted a new skeleton?

Given Chris returned Sabretooth in Wolverine #126-7 with adamantium bonded, perhaps it was whoever he had in mind as the one responsible for that.

That is, was the original plan to bond adamantium to Sabretooth, and to mitigate the potential risk (since they didn't know if his healing factor would sufficiently protect him from the surgery), it was decided to test it on Logan first and see if he survived it?

I think that could finally explain the reason.

So the intention was to never turn Logan into the weapon, and that is why Chris inferred in interview to me he was left behind after they performed the experiment, as opposed to their funding body claiming him as an agent despite all that financial investment… because he was the prototype, and eventual proof that the process would be successful.

So was the reason to turn a killer with no conscience into the ultimate weapon by bonding adamantium to his skeleton.

Does that work?

It finally seems to explain why Chris had Sabretooth returned with adamantium in the above issues…

As for who was behind the experiment… maybe Sabretooth was the one who financed it… and was the lead behind it!?

[Hush]

That Juggernaut/Wolverine issue is one of my favorites from the Kubert era.

So true, I love the scene where Logan challenges Sam to a race through the woods:

How was Old Man Logan? I just found out Mariko was the Scarlet Samurai, and I’m compelled to buying that arc, but because the devil cursed me as a completionist, I’m probably going to be forced to buy the whole thing. Is Silver Fox back as well? Silver & Mariko being Logan’s greatest love interests for me, I’m a sucker for their resurrections.

The Old Man Logan: Warzones mini by Bendis is really average, it's just worth reading for the art by Sorrentino and if you want to know how the Old Man landed in our universe.

The Lemire's run is amazing especially the second arc "Bordertown"! The Brisson's run is good, some arc are definetely amazing such as The Hunted and Bullseye's return but the series suffered from some pacing issues especially towards the end unfortunately but as a whole it's a really solid run.

One thing to note about the Brisson's run, is that it's not over yet and most of what happens in this run built towards the Dead Man Logan serie (the first issue of Dead Man Logan is really good in my opinion).

Also if you like Old Man Logan or his universe, the Old Man Hawkeye series by Ethan Sacks is really good too and is a nice prelude to the original Old Man Logan story by Millar.

What is this first image from?

Astonishing Tales: Wolverine/Punisher

Kenneth Rocafort's art is awesome in that story. I do liked the villains in that story. I won't spoil who are the villains on that story. But I'll put spoilers below in case you want to know, and I guess one good guys:

spoilers:

Villains: Viper, Kimura, and Predator X. Good guy or gal is Tyger Tiger.

end of spoilers

It's a really fun mini and I agree Rocafort's art is top notch!

spoilers:

Seeing the Punisher throws himself and Kimura in the mouth of the Predator X was crazy!

end of spoilers

Thanks for the heads up. I just read the 6 issues and it was a fun read. The art was great!

Lemire had one arc in particular that I thought was fantastic. It was OML vs the Brood and it was basically a what if Logan was the star of the movie Alien. There is a little more to it that I don't want to give away but it was creepy as heck and seriously one of the best OML stories ever written imho.

I agree it's such a great arc especially if you love Alien! Thinking about Alien and Wolverine, just imagine what could happen if a facehugger managed to hit Logan while his healing factor is down, it could be a nightmare lol.

[Hush]

Th€ €жţяą-๏яďɨɲąя¥ Tycon posted this in the upcoming-art-teases thread:
Wolverine:The Long Night


https://twitter.com/cracksh0t/status...38290525016064

Nice! Thanks for the pic GylT'Nav!

The legend of Iron Chef Wolverine would never die!!! (until Onslaught at least lol)

He did it, it was just a retelling of Scott's origin and some Maddie/Scott stuff, but nothing bad, still is kind of weird that he doesn't see how strange that romance was (and i'm not even touching that time that she punched him...yikes). Honestly, i just don't want him to carry his Jean/Logan idea, mostly Logan just come across as someone with no self-respect or a huge creep, neither appeals to me.

If Loeb/Way stuff is erased i would be the happiest man on earth, c'mon Soule do it!, redeem yourself!!

I supposed that Logan was just going throught an edgy teen phase and was like "ughh.... i need more misery and pain my life, but what more could have i done?" and Romulus answered his pleas

Damn you Onslaught!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sure Logan will find a way to defeat him:



At least I hope so

Well that's not really surprising but yeah it's such a strange romance when you think about it, I get the idea behind it but yeah after X-Factor/Inferno, it doesn't look good at all. With any luck Logan will hang out with Mariko now, it could be fun especially since she's a badass samurai!

Erasing Way/Loeb runs is the only way to redeem this Death/Hunt/Return trilogy to be honest.

Lmao at edgy Wolverine, it makes more sense than Loeb's story!

[Hush]

The problem with the High Evolutionary's involvement is his procurement of animals from different continents. Did he have a smuggler he relied on to get exotic animals to him, or did he go on safari to procure them?

Maybe Sinister could have helped him? I mean maybe I'm wrong but the works of Essex inspired Wyndham as revealed during X-Factor annual #3 so maybe he got in contact with Sinister in order to get help with his experiments. Sinister definitely has the connections to get whatever he needs especially if he sees an interest in Wyndham's experiments.

Logan being perceived equivalent to a knight would likely be due to his samurai training.

Yeah or maybe there is a deeper meaning to what the High Evolutionary said to Logan... There is only one thing left to do:

Given Chris's way of thinking about Wolverine was that Logan had no interest in his origins because he knew them and that as far as where the bonded skeleton, etc. came from, while he wasn't aware of this specifically it doesn’t bother him, he isn’t interested in getting revenge, unless of course he discovers the person who did it is doing it to other people… has any considered the following.

To determine which classic Marvel villain Chris intended to have bonded adamantium to Logan, perhaps we need to work from the basis of why. That is, what was their purpose for doing so? It would seem unlikely it was to punish/ hurt Logan, since adamantium was a significant investment, and it made him more invulnerable than just having a healing factor. No one operates on someone else experimentally for the subject’s benefit, except on television.

I think the question is how does it benefit the experimenter? And aside from furthering science (it’s unethical, no report of this knowledge will be made or was made, so that’s out), or testing for someone who needs a new skeleton (that happened with Bullseye, but the process wasn’t created for him)… the problem with using Logan as a test subject is that the operation only works if the subject has a healing factor. So, who, aside from him has a healing factor and wanted a new skeleton?

Given Chris returned Sabretooth in Wolverine #126-7 with adamantium bonded, perhaps it was whoever he had in mind as the one responsible for that.

That is, was the original plan to bond adamantium to Sabretooth, and to mitigate the potential risk (since they didn't know if his healing factor would sufficiently protect him from the surgery), it was decided to test it on Logan first and see if he survived it?

I think that could finally explain the reason.

So the intention was to never turn Logan into the weapon, and that is why Chris inferred in interview to me he was left behind after they performed the experiment, as opposed to their funding body claiming him as an agent despite all that financial investment… because he was the prototype, and eventual proof that the process would be successful.

So was the reason to turn a killer with no conscience into the ultimate weapon by bonding adamantium to his skeleton.

Does that work?

It finally seems to explain why Chris had Sabretooth returned with adamantium in the above issues…

As for who was behind the experiment… maybe Sabretooth was the one who financed it… and was the lead behind it!?

Sabretooth as a mastermind behind the Weapon X project and Logan being used as a guinea pig to test if the procedure worked could make sense. I mean the first tests were done on animals and then on Logan and strangely years later after Logan lost his adamantium Sabretooth got one out of nowhere.

Claremont said something about Sabretooth a long time ago, basically the Sabretooth that was working with Sinister was never the real one, the real one was just lurking in the shadows more interested in Wolverine:

https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-legends-revealed-432/

Outside of the Claremont's stories, after Sabretooth lost his adamantium skeleton, Sinister mentioned that's he's quite familiar with the adamantium bonding procedure:



Years later, when the new Weapon X program bonded the adamantium to Creed's skeleton again, it was later revealed that Sinister was one of doctors employed by this new Weapon X program under the identity of Dr. Robert Windsor, but I'm not sure if he was one of the scientists present during the surgery since we never saw their faces. During the Weapon X series by Tieri, it was even revealed that Professor Thorton's work and the whole Weapon Plus project was inspired by Essex works when he discovered his laboratory during WWII.

So maybe Sabretooth cuts some deal with Sinister, Victor financed the whole thing while Essex oversaw the experiment X (the mysterious guy on the phone could be Sinister or Sabretooth) and used Logan as a guinea pig in order to test the bonding process as you said. In exchange Victor lets him use his DNA to create those fake copies of him for his own agenda and to test the adamantium enhanced Wolverine.

Of course it's Sinister so I'm sure he had another thing in mind if he bonded the adamantium to Creed's skeleton lol.

Edit: Thinking about it, did Claremont mention anything about Brian Xavier? The guy is such a mystery when you think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a hand in the Weapon X project too.

[nadler]

Maybe Sinister could have helped him? I mean maybe I'm wrong but the works of Essex inspired Wyndham as revealed during X-Factor annual #3

The shadowy figure with the top hat and suit was not intended to be Mister Sinister, but rather Phaedar the Inhuman.

so maybe he got in contact with Sinister in order to get help with his experiments. Sinister definitely has the connections to get whatever he needs especially if he sees an interest in Wyndham's experiments.

True. However, "Mister Sinister" was the construct of a mutant child.

Yeah or maybe there is a deeper meaning to what the High Evolutionary said to Logan... There is only one thing left to do:

Sabretooth as a mastermind behind the Weapon X project and Logan being used as a guinea pig to test if the procedure worked could make sense.

Glad you think so.

I mean the first tests were done on animals

I don't recall this being revealed under Claremont?

and then on Logan and strangely years later after Logan lost his adamantium Sabretooth got one out of nowhere.

Yes. So the remaining question is if Sabretooth wanted it, why wait so long to undergo the procedure?

Claremont said something about Sabretooth a long time ago, basically the Sabretooth that was working with Sinister was never the real one, the real one was just lurking in the shadows more interested in Wolverine:

Yes, I remember. But was this Claremont's intent from the outset or did he come up with this idea because he didn’t like what other writers were doing with Sabretooth on Iron Fist, etc.?

If the Marauder version was cloned from the original's DNA, where were the original mutants whose DNA made up the remainder of that team, e.g. Scalphunter and Vertigo (recall after Vertigo was shown in the Marauders team, when we next see the Savage Land Mutants in Uncanny X-Men Annual #12 there is no sign of her and a new female member is introduced with equivalent powers, White Out)?

Outside of the Claremont's stories, after Sabretooth lost his adamantium skeleton, Sinister mentioned that's he's quite familiar with the adamantium bonding procedure:

Was that Nicieza's Gambit run? By that stage this would be easy to suggest and would likely have been explained as something he learned from his time working for Apocalypse. SMH.

Years later, when the new Weapon X program bonded the adamantium to Creed's skeleton again, it was later revealed that Sinister was one of doctors employed by this new Weapon X program under the identity of Dr. Robert Windsor, but I'm not sure if he was one of the scientists present during the surgery since we never saw their faces. During the Weapon X series by Tieri, it was even revealed that Professor Thorton's work and the whole Weapon Plus project was inspired by Essex works when he discovered his laboratory during WWII.

And then Claremont revealed this group's laboratory was located on the Blue Area of the Moon (in X-Men: The End).

So maybe Sabretooth cuts some deal with Sinister, Victor financed the whole thing while Essex oversaw the experiment X (the mysterious guy on the phone could be Sinister or Sabretooth)

Have you noticed Claremont never revealed any dialog tell-tells in Sabretooth’s speech? In fact, he’s really not got any distinguishing traits, other than standard Lee tough guy talk which is strange for a Claremont character. Could Sabretooth’s persona be a put-on to draw attention away from his true heritage?

and used Logan as a guinea pig in order to test the bonding process as you said. In exchange Victor lets him use his DNA to create those fake copies of him for his own agenda and to test the adamantium enhanced Wolverine.

It certainly lines up to what I'm suggesting.

Of course it's Sinister so I'm sure he had another thing in mind if he bonded the adamantium to Creed's skeleton lol.

Yes, but what? Recall at the end of #126/ start of #127, Sabretooth declares himself "King of the World". Did it have something to do with this? Was there some bigger intent to him claiming that title?

Edit: Thinking about it, did Claremont mention anything about Brian Xavier? The guy is such a mystery when you think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a hand in the Weapon X project too.

No, Chris never referenced Charles origins during his entire runs, including Brian.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Wolverine #2 Dec 1988
Part 2 of 3 -"Possession is the Law!"
With Jessica Drew bringing the cursed Muramasa Blade -- coveted by the Cult of the Black Blade -- to a bar in Madripoor's Lowtown and into a trap,
Logan (in his guise of Patch) and Lindsay McCabe (Jessica's actress friend) head to the bar to wait for Jessica's arrival.
The bar is a rough place but Patch is most impressed when Lindsay conducts herself well even though he has to warn off the locals that she is with him.
She impresses him further when she takes the same drink as him even thought it literally knocks her off her feet.

Patch leaves her behind while he goes upstairs to meet with the "contact", left to her own devices Lindsay becomes
uncomfortable to the attention she is getting and takes up Belle the bartenders offer to work behind the bar while Patch is busy.
As Logan goes upstairs he recounts the course of events that led him here.
Entering the room where Jessica Drew was supposed to meet her contact, Patch finds that everyone in the room has been slaughtered.
As he enters the room, he is suddenly attacked by the Silver Samurai who has also come looking for the sword
and will not allow Logan to interfere in his plans. The two begin to spar when suddenly their are interrupted by Jessica Drew,
who steps out of the shadows revealing that she is under the influence of the Muramasa Sword.
Their fight spills into the bar below where the bewildered Lindsay watches as the Silver Samurai threatens to kill Jessica in order to get the sword.

Before the fight can continue further some of the roughnecks in the bar attempt to gun
down Jessica, Patch and the Samurai until they are all slaughtered by Jessica and the Samurai.
As the fight continues on, Logan decides to use a more drastic measure to stop the fight.
When nobody is looking he uses his claws to cut through one of the foundation walls of the bar, sending the roof collapsing on them all.
Jessica manages to get free first and escapes into the night. Patch rescues Lindsay from the rubble and goes after Drew.

Lindsay goes to the Silver Samurai and considers slaying him with his own sword but decides to rescue him from the rubble instead.
When Lindsay almost falls through the floor the Samurai returns the favor.

Before the Silver Samurai can continue his hunt for the blade, Lindsay manages to talk him into letting her accompany him.

Meanwhile, Patch has caught up and cornered Jessica Drew, who under the swords influence attacks him.
Although the battle is brutal, Logan's healing factor compensates for the cuts made from the black blade.
He manages to grab the sword out of her hand and before he can land a killing blow
the sword -- finding him a more suitable host -- takes possession of Logan instead.

The Silver Samurai and Lindsay arrive just as the possession is complete and the sword announces to them
that it has found the perfect host and that once it sacrifices Jessica's life their bond will become permanent.

Written by Chris Claremont. Art by John Buscema https://13thdimension.com/13-covers-...celebration-4/ and Klaus Janson.

[Hush]

The shadowy figure with the top hat and suit was not intended to be Mister Sinister, but rather Phaedar the Inhuman.

Oops my mistake, I mixed up Uncanny X-Men #380 and X-Factor Annual #3. After our previous discussion about the High Evolutionary, I decided to re-read Evolutionary Wars and Powerless back to back, hence the confusion lol.

True. However, "Mister Sinister" was the construct of a mutant child.

Ah yes the child construct plot, I forgot that one, what a weird plot when you think about it.

I don't recall this being revealed under Claremont?

It was at the start of Weapon X by BWS and during the Morrison's run, I should have mentioned that.

Yes. So the remaining question is if Sabretooth wanted it, why wait so long to undergo the procedure?

There is also another possibility, if the Sabretooth we met all those years wasn't the real one and the real one only appeared during Wolverine #10 and classic X-Men #10, maybe he got the adamantium in his body shortly after the last birthday beating he gave to Logan. or he already got it by that time and what he said in Wolverine #126 about things getting different since the last time he fought Logan was a reference to the last time Logan fought one of Creed's "clones" who didn't have any adamantium.

Yeah that's a lot of reaching here lol.

Thinking about it, I'm still suprised that Logan didn't smell Creed's adamantium on that day, maybe he was too focused on the fight as Kitty noticed.

Yes, I remember. But was this Claremont's intent from the outset or did he come up with this idea because he didnÂ’t like what other writers were doing with Sabretooth on Iron Fist, etc.?

If the Marauder version was cloned from the original's DNA, where were the original mutants whose DNA made up the remainder of that team, e.g. Scalphunter and Vertigo (recall after Vertigo was shown in the Marauders team, when we next see the Savage Land Mutants in Uncanny X-Men Annual #12 there is no sign of her and a new female member is introduced with equivalent powers, White Out)?

That's the thing I'm not sure, if it was Claremont's intent from the begining it could make sense but if it's just a "retcon" similar to what Starlin did with Thanos that's not the same thing.

I remember Whiteout in Uncanny X-Men #249 but honestly no idea about the original Marauders, maybe the original ones were just in stasis somewhere and cloned ad nauseam each time one died.

Was that Nicieza's Gambit run? By that stage this would be easy to suggest and would likely have been explained as something he learned from his time working for Apocalypse. SMH.

Yup that's from Nicieza's Gambit run and true I wouldn't be surprised by the Apocalypse connection.

And then Claremont revealed this group's laboratory was located on the Blue Area of the Moon (in X-Men: The End).

Ah that's true, the "Neverland" camp was moved to the moon during X-Men the end. I remember that during the Endangered Species storyline by Carey, Beast confirmed that the camp is still on earth after M-Day hence the phrase; " Mutantkind's greatest enemy? Canada, apparently".

Sorry Logan and Alpha Flight but for once I have to agree with Beast lol.

Speaking about X-Men the End, if I remember well Sinister and the High Evolutionary were working together during one flashback in X-Men the End Book 2 #5 I believe, so there is a small connection between them at least

Have you noticed Claremont never revealed any dialog tell-tells in SabretoothÂ’s speech? In fact, heÂ’s really not got any distinguishing traits, other than standard Lee tough guy talk which is strange for a Claremont character. Could SabretoothÂ’s persona be a put-on to draw attention away from his true heritage?

Yeah it's strange especially if Sabretooth is supposed to have a "royal" ancestry, and to be honest it wouldn't surprised me that Sabretooth played the dumb brute to hide his true nature and plans. It wouldn't be the first time as shown during the Tieri's Wolverine run where he played everyone. Speaking of Tieri's run, it's funny but not only Creed outsmarted the Director but he managed to play mind games with Sinister and manipulated him.

Yes, but what? Recall at the end of #126/ start of #127, Sabretooth declares himself "King of the World". Did it have something to do with this? Was there some bigger intent to him claiming that title?

Yeah I still don't understand what's the deal with Sabretooth claiming to be "King of the World", you're going to laugh but the first time I read this issue I thought this Sabretooth scene was a Titanic reference:





lol

But seriously maybe now that he has the adamantium, maybe he sees himself "on top of the food chain" once and for an all especially since Logan didn't have any adamantium anymore at the time.

No, Chris never referenced Charles origins during his entire runs, including Brian.

I see, thanks for the info!

[Hush]

Wolverine #2 Dec 1988
Part 2 of 3 -"Possession is the Law!"
With Jessica Drew bringing the cursed Muramasa Blade -- coveted by the Cult of the Black Blade -- to a bar in Madripoor's Lowtown and into a trap,
Logan (in his guise of Patch) and Lindsay McCabe (Jessica's actress friend) head to the bar to wait for Jessica's arrival.
The bar is a rough place but Patch is most impressed when Lindsay conducts herself well even though he has to warn off the locals that she is with him.
She impresses him further when she takes the same drink as him even thought it literally knocks her off her feet.

Patch leaves her behind while he goes upstairs to meet with the "contact", left to her own devices Lindsay becomes
uncomfortable to the attention she is getting and takes up Belle the bartenders offer to work behind the bar while Patch is busy.
As Logan goes upstairs he recounts the course of events that led him here.
Entering the room where Jessica Drew was supposed to meet her contact, Patch finds that everyone in the room has been slaughtered.
As he enters the room, he is suddenly attacked by the Silver Samurai who has also come looking for the sword
and will not allow Logan to interfere in his plans. The two begin to spar when suddenly their are interrupted by Jessica Drew,
who steps out of the shadows revealing that she is under the influence of the Muramasa Sword.
Their fight spills into the bar below where the bewildered Lindsay watches as the Silver Samurai threatens to kill Jessica in order to get the sword.

Before the fight can continue further some of the roughnecks in the bar attempt to gun
down Jessica, Patch and the Samurai until they are all slaughtered by Jessica and the Samurai.
As the fight continues on, Logan decides to use a more drastic measure to stop the fight.
When nobody is looking he uses his claws to cut through one of the foundation walls of the bar, sending the roof collapsing on them all.
Jessica manages to get free first and escapes into the night. Patch rescues Lindsay from the rubble and goes after Drew.

Lindsay goes to the Silver Samurai and considers slaying him with his own sword but decides to rescue him from the rubble instead.
When Lindsay almost falls through the floor the Samurai returns the favor.

Before the Silver Samurai can continue his hunt for the blade, Lindsay manages to talk him into letting her accompany him.

Meanwhile, Patch has caught up and cornered Jessica Drew, who under the swords influence attacks him.
Although the battle is brutal, Logan's healing factor compensates for the cuts made from the black blade.
He manages to grab the sword out of her hand and before he can land a killing blow
the sword -- finding him a more suitable host -- takes possession of Logan instead.

The Silver Samurai and Lindsay arrive just as the possession is complete and the sword announces to them
that it has found the perfect host and that once it sacrifices Jessica's life their bond will become permanent.

Written by Chris Claremont. Art by John Buscema https://13thdimension.com/13-covers-...celebration-4/ and Klaus Janson.

Nice post! I love this story, Logan was so scary when he had that Black Blade!

[Shadowcat]

The Lushious Lindsay McCabe ������

[Hush]

Return of Wolverine #4 variant by Declan Shalvey:

[nadler]

Oops my mistake, I mixed up Uncanny X-Men #380 and X-Factor Annual #3. After our previous discussion about the High Evolutionary, I decided to re-read Evolutionary Wars and Powerless back to back, hence the confusion lol.

All good (smiles)

Ah yes the child construct plot, I forgot that one, what a weird plot when you think about it.

I actually would loved to have seen it occur but that’s because I know where Chris and Dave Cockrum conceived it from (yep it was in the planning stages that far back).

It was at the start of Weapon X by BWS and during the Morrison's run, I should have mentioned that.

SMH re: those runs.

There is also another possibility, if the Sabretooth we met all those years wasn't the real one and the real one only appeared during Wolverine #10 and classic X-Men #10, maybe he got the adamantium in his body shortly after the last birthday beating he gave to Logan. or he already got it by that time and what he said in Wolverine #126 about things getting different since the last time he fought Logan was a reference to the last time Logan fought one of Creed's "clones" who didn't have any adamantium.

Well Chris wanted the Sabretooth we saw in Iron Fist #14 to be the real deal so did he have it back then? And recall he came annually to beat Wolvie up. What we saw in Wolverine #10 seemed decades earlier, not a few years.

Yeah that's a lot of reaching here lol.

Ha.

Thinking about it, I'm still suprised that Logan didn't smell Creed's adamantium on that day, maybe he was too focused on the fight as Kitty noticed.

Do we have confirmation adamantium gives off an odour once set? To me if he could smell anything it would be that he wouldn’t smell the typical marrow released through the bloodstream.

That's the thing I'm not sure, if it was Claremont's intent from the begining it could make sense but if it's just a "retcon" similar to what Starlin did with Thanos that's not the same thing.

I agree (and similar to what Mantis in Celestial Quest).

I remember Whiteout in Uncanny X-Men #249 but honestly no idea about the original Marauders, maybe the original ones were just in stasis somewhere and cloned ad nauseam each time one died.

Well, given Scalphunter’s power, have you considered whether he was a clone of Forge? Remember the way the Marauders attacked the Morlocks had a whole Vietnam War vibe (and Forge’s unit there was funnily enough also called the Marauders). So did Sinister procure his DNA over there?

Yup that's from Nicieza's Gambit run and true I wouldn't be surprised by the Apocalypse connection.

Thanks for confirming. It depends if Nicieza wanted there to be a connection or not, as he did tend to push against what Harras wanted (e.g. revealing Exodus as Native American, etc.).

Ah that's true, the "Neverland" camp was moved to the moon during X-Men the end.

I am still really curious why Chris decided to have Mr. Sinister move his base within the vicinity of the tunnel where Dark Phoenix turned the Kree weapon on herself and where he revealed in Endgame Apocalypse also had a base.

I remember that during the Endangered Species storyline by Carey, Beast confirmed that the camp is still on earth after M-Day hence the phrase; " Mutantkind's greatest enemy? Canada, apparently".

So stupid! That and Canada is too small to be that large an international power-broker, or want to have a significant role in such affairs. That’s why I’m not convinced, if Logan was transformed on their soil, that the Canadian Government were involved.

Sorry Logan and Alpha Flight but for once I have to agree with Beast lol.

Ha.

Speaking about X-Men the End, if I remember well Sinister and the High Evolutionary were working together during one flashback in X-Men the End Book 2 #5 I believe, so there is a small connection between them at least

True. But in that issue Chris also retconned his idea of Sinister as a young child when he revealed he’d taught Charley and Moira at Oxford University.

In addition, despite having full rein of X-Men Forever, he acknowledged Magneto’s real name as Erik Lensherr despite not coming up with it, and further referenced Sabretooth’s name as Creed when that was also a later addition, both never being the names he had in mind. He should have instead come up with his own.

Yeah it's strange especially if Sabretooth is supposed to have a "royal" ancestry, and to be honest it wouldn't surprised me that Sabretooth played the dumb brute to hide his true nature and plans. It wouldn't be the first time as shown during the Tieri's Wolverine run where he played everyone. Speaking of Tieri's run, it's funny but not only Creed outsmarted the Director but he managed to play mind games with Sinister and manipulated him.

Perhaps, but we needed Chris to portray that during his original run to be convinced that was the approach he was going to take.

Yeah I still don't understand what's the deal with Sabretooth claiming to be "King of the World", you're going to laugh but the first time I read this issue I thought this Sabretooth scene was a Titanic reference:

Well it was within twelve months since the film, so within the then cultural zeitgeist.

But seriously maybe now that he has the adamantium, maybe he sees himself "on top of the food chain" once and for an all especially since Logan didn't have any adamantium anymore at the time.

What I was getting it (smiles).

I see, thanks for the info!

I wish he’d have established something re: Brian (and also what involvement the Xavier family might have had with the N’Garai).

[Hush]

Uncanny X-Men #10 variant cover by David Finch:



I'm sure biswaboxz is going to love this cover

[Hush]

I actually would loved to have seen it occur but that’s because I know where Chris and Dave Cockrum conceived it from (yep it was in the planning stages that far back).

This plot was conceived during the Cockrum era? That's crazy. Thinking about it, it explains the "Mister Sinister" goofy name lol.

Well Chris wanted the Sabretooth we saw in Iron Fist #14 to be the real deal so did he have it back then? And recall he came annually to beat Wolvie up. What we saw in Wolverine #10 seemed decades earlier, not a few years.

Maybe, hard to say to be honest since Creed didn't show a lot of skills during this issue although if he already had the adamantium I'm surprised that Danny didn't break his hand the first time he hit him in the face (same thing next issue when Danny fought against Logan).

Regarding Wolverine #10, I was talking about the Sabretooth "behind the scene" appearance at the end of this issue when he left a “birthday” gift for Logan:



I do agree that the flashback scene takes place a long time ago, as mentioned by Logan and at that time he shouldn't have any adamantium.

Do we have confirmation adamantium gives off an odour once set? To me if he could smell anything it would be that he wouldn’t smell the typical marrow released through the bloodstream.

It's really inconsistent, during the Not Dead Yet storyline, after learning that the soldiers attacking him were using adamantium bullets he smelled one bullet to check if it’s true.



Regarding the Sabretooth's fight, I would say that Logan can’t smell the adamantium bones but he should be able to smell the adamantium on Sabretooth claws at least especially after seeing them up close lol.
But yeah even years later during the Tieri’s run, Logan didn’t smell the adamantium on Creed’s bones and claws and even later during the Adamantium Men storyline by Aaron he couldn’t smell the adamantium on the soldier bones.

So in the end it’s just me nitpicking

Well, given Scalphunter’s power, have you considered whether he was a clone of Forge? Remember the way the Marauders attacked the Morlocks had a whole Vietnam War vibe (and Forge’s unit there was funnily enough also called the Marauders). So did Sinister procure his DNA over there?

They both have some similarities that’s for sure, seeing how Sinister loved to played with DNA samples I wouldn’t be surprised if he was either a “clone” or if he just had his own dna mixed with Forge DNA. Now did Claremont mention that Sinister was in Vietnam? I don't remember to be honest.

I know that Tieri during the Weapon X series revealed that Scalphunter was recruited by Essex during WWII, then they both moved to Vietnam during the 60s (so during the Vietnam War) where Essex was known as the “White devil”. In 1968, Scalphunter met Sabretooth for the first time and recruited him but I don’t remember if Chris revealed anything about Scalphunter origins, except for the marauders’s clue.

Thanks for confirming. It depends if Nicieza wanted there to be a connection or not, as he did tend to push against what Harras wanted (e.g. revealing Exodus as Native American, etc.).

You’re welcome! I didn’t know about Harras and Exodus, that’s interesting, thanks for the info!

I am still really curious why Chris decided to have Mr. Sinister move his base within the vicinity of the tunnel where Dark Phoenix turned the Kree weapon on herself and where he revealed in Endgame Apocalypse also had a base.

Maybe he found something up there? Not just where Phoenix fell but in that whole blue Moon area, some new technology perhaps, if I’m not mistaken the home of Uatu is in the same area.

Thinking about it, a "Cosmic Mister Sinister" would be terryfying!

So stupid! That and Canada is too small to be that large an international power-broker, or want to have a significant role in such affairs. That’s why I’m not convinced, if Logan was transformed on their soil, that the Canadian Government were involved.

It sure doesn’t paint a flattering picture of the Canadian government lol, I think the blue moon area or something like the negative zone (similar to what happened during Civil War) for Neverland makes more sense.

In addition, despite having full rein of X-Men Forever, he acknowledged Magneto’s real name as Erik Lensherr despite not coming up with it, and further referenced Sabretooth’s name as Creed when that was also a later addition, both never being the names he had in mind. He should have instead come up with his own.

Magneto's real name changed so much along the years between Magnus/Erik Lensher/Max Eisenhardt that's crazy when you think about it, do you know the names he had in mind for Magneto and Sabretooth?

I wish he’d have established something re: Brian (and also what involvement the Xavier family might have had with the N’Garai).

Yeah that guy is a real mystery, I know after Claremont left the X-Titles several writers tried to link him to Weapon X/Shiva Project/Black Womb and all those secret projects and if I'm not mistaken it was later revealed that he knew Essex. I'm not sure about the N'Garai but seeing how much he knew Sinister maybe he played a role in the Morlock's massacre?

[MarvelMaster616]

Uncanny X-Men #10 variant cover by David Finch:



I'm sure biswaboxz is going to love this cover

That is gorgeous. Definitely going to try and reserve a copy of this one.