Logan: Wolverine Appreciation 2018

[nadler]

Ah dammit Chris, give us an answer!!!!

He'll never give answers as the hours I spent questioning him, he danced around answers by throwing more back at me. He seems to get entertainment out of teasing fans, even after all this time when there's no way Marvel is going to let him resolve his plots. When I went to the extent of flagging even this he bit back that the plots could end up being instead addressed in his own written fiction. But he hasn't had a novel published in over twenty years and only one short story in that whole time. Every novel he has written since has not met with interest from publishers. So he just needs to give up and respect his fans by finally providing answers to all of his unresolved plots.

I’m not using Facebook so I didn’t know about this facebook page

Nor I! Friend David Rettenmaier has been keeping me up to date as he has been posting regularly up until this point.

but yeah it’s sad for the fans who love to post on it. So yeah let’s hope it’s because he’s busy with comic works (he wrote 2 X-Men stories recently with X-Men Black Magneto and the Exterminated) or that Disney will hire him to work on the future X-Men movies!

He’s seemed shitty so I would expect it would be the other, that his pitches have been knocked back. He even went on to draft a huge pitch this year on the Reavers and Gateway which was knocked back because he obviously hadn’t realised Gateway had been killed off (being an Australian, I always considered Walkabout would have been a better codename than Gateway).

It’s going to be hard to choose, the few articles I’ve read are all amazing!

That’s high praise, indeed. Thank you.

So both Cable and Mother Askani would be from an alternate reality?

The term in his script was sidereal string, which he had likewise used in Excalibur (when referring to Widget), so yes I would expect so.

The psychic Knife and the "merciful bright lady" are strange though,

I'm glad you think so as you’re one of the only fans who has agreed with me when I’ve pointed this out.

so maybe she was familiar with the X-Men or with their history, maybe it's someone who lived with them in this reality for a while and was close to Ororo hence the terms she used.

Did you know Chris also revealed who the Bright Lady was, but back in the seventies?

So a child of the X-Men, familiar with Ororo and connected to the Phoenix force? Really strange.

I wonder if he intended to introduce such a character in Uncanny X-Men #282, but what we instead got was Bishop? Claremont would have likely gone for introducing a new female character over a male and he was apparently involved in early discussions for the introduction of the character that became Bishop.

Well that could work too!

The question then becomes how he got transported back in time from our current era to the era leading up to Scott’s youth as he seemed to have entrenched himself at the State Home for Foundlings for some time.

Yeah the adamantium thing seems to be really inconsistent, both here or even during the Wolverine/Kitty fight in Wolverine Vol 2 146.

Chris was no longer a Creative Director working for Bob Harras by the time of the latter fight, so I’m not sure we can count that.

You know that’s something I was thinking about, do you remember during X-Men true friends the Logan, Kitty met in 1936? When she was drowning, she couldn’t be saved because she was phased except Logan managed to touch her and saved her:

Yes I remember and it completely threw what he had previously established. It does not make sense for Logan to have his adamantium by 1936.

Maybe that was because he already had his adamantium skeleton in this story and he also travelled back in time (maybe thanks to Landau, Luckman and Lake) before joining the X-Men when he was working for Department H.

There is no evidence that Landau, Luckman and Lake were intended in Claremont’s original conception to be involved in time travel. That idea only got interwoven later by Larry Hama. In Claremont’s initial conception, LL&L seemed more traders with interdimensional cultures as opposed to temporal ones. Remember Psylocke’s armour and it being introduced in the same story Claremont introduced Roughhouse. The armour seemed mystical so suggested LL&L were trading with the Nine Realms.

I know it may sound crazy but this Logan also showcased his claws (at the time where he wasn’t supposed to use them and they looked to be made of metal), he was much more stronger than a mere human (maybe thanks to his adamantium bones although Logan also has some form of superstrength even without the adamantium), he knew where to find Kitty and Kinross (he even said he was sorry he couldn't be here to save them earlier) and he also made a reference to the Magnum Force movie that was only released in 1973.

Good points all. If Logan was working for LL&L, that would suggest Raven and Irene Adler were also. Yet if they were working for a Temporal Bureau, how did they get manipulated by the Shadow King for so many decades?

As for how he knew where to find Kitty and Kinross, that could be explained by Irene's usual precognitive visions guiding the mission.

No way Chris added those little details into the story without any reason in my opinion. The problem with this theory may be why Logan didn’t recognize Kitty the first time he met her during the Claremont/Byrne run and why Strucker didn’t recognize him in Uncanny X-Men #268, sometimes I hate time travels lol.

I know. None of it makes sense. I suspect these anomalies are why it was initially rejected for publication in 1990-91 when Claremont originally pitched it for Excalibur Special Edition #3 and #4.

The biggest problem with the story is how Baron Strucker ends up with his long-time facial scar as a result of Logan's claws, yet didn’t recognise him 6 years later in Madripoor. That’s not possible, period.

FYI, in Back Issue #4, Chris revealed that it was Wolverine's whispering in Charles' ear to seek out Kitty in Deerfield in X-Men #129. Hence she became part of the team because Wolverine set it up. Was Logan's advice a result of the mission we saw in X-Men: True Friends, and had Irene Adler told him of her later significance to human-mutant relations and this is why he pushed Charles to recruit her? If so, how did Logan keep track of the Pryde's from there given her parents would only have migrated to the US after WWII and he was by that point travelling back and forth from Canada to Japan, Russia, etc.?

I agree about the “Howlett” thing, it’s really annoying I hope that when Logan is introduced in the MCU they will ignore all this Origin/Origin II/Origins/Evolution/Sabretooth Reborn junk (just like they did with Thanos Rising in Infinity Wars) and just call him Logan. With any luck the comics will follow suit and retcon all this nonsense once and for all.

Hopefully its use in the film Wolverine: Origins will make Feige want to avoid it like the plague.

Maybe the adamantium is needed to fight something else? Something more mystical? Maybe the adamantium has some secret properties against mystical beings.

Was the introduction of Seraph in Marvel Comics Presents #2, then Psylocke's mystical armour in Wolverine #5 was taking us in that direction. If Sabretooth was a modern day pirate, what was he really pirating? Perhaps it’s all connected!?

And just where did the armour end up after Betsy passed through the Siege Perilous?

Although if it was that mystical, how did the Adversary manage to re-corporate after Wolverine slashed him with his adamantium claws yet struggle to maintain his Naze form after Colossus punched him?

The trade off might be worth it for Creed if that means he can fight and kill whatever he wants with the adamantium bonded to his skeleton and claws, hence the “King of the World” thing, no one can stop him now, he can kill everything.

Yes it might enable him to kill anyone, but if he could bend I-Beams before, I’m not convinced he would consider it as providing him with a necessary edge, particularly if it led to the slowing down of his healing factor. If he was able to whup Logan's arse annually, even when Wolvie had the adamantium, nothing much would likely be capable of stopping him without it.

If it was decapitation he was worried about, had Sabretooth been through that before and if so who the heck managed to pull that off?

Now the whole birthday thing, maybe it was a way to have Logan gradually abandon his human side for his animal side in order to easily manipulate him?

Hama’s plot had the exact opposite happen to Logan when he went feral as hell after having his adamantium removed.

As for classic Marvel villains capable of being involved in the bonding of adamantium to Logan's skeleton, the most logical would seem to be Magneto given he could have made the procedure as quick, painless, and untraceable as possible.

Or he wanted to have Logan ready for the adamantium bonding process by making sure he was strong enough to survive it?

By beating him up every year? Given Sabretooth routed Logan again in Wolverine #10, it didn’t seem to be working sufficiently.

I agree I don’t think Creed would just waste his time kicking Logan’s ass each year because he was jealous of Logan's honor, it doesn't make any sense.

Absolutely! So the jury is still frustratingly out.

[nadler]

Anytime! I’m literally a walking comic book wikia page. I specialize in Bronze and Copper age era of Marvel & DC comics (1975-2009). Feel free to hit me up about anything.

Okay then, let's really put you to the test What else can you spill? If you've interviewed SLobdell, did you manage to extract from him who he and Joe Madureira had in mind as the parents of Blink/ Clarice Ferguson, and Marrow, respectively (as word has it they had plans which ended up blocked by editorial)? That is, in Uncanny X-Men #316, the first part of the Phalanx Covenant, an indicated location/ hometown of one of the Generation X captives is shown as Quebec, Canada and all the others (i.e. Monet, Husk and Skin) are accounted for except Clarice. However, it was later revealed that she had lived with her parents in the Bahamas. Given Scott did write Alpha Flight might he have intended her to be connected to characters from that title? Perhaps Aurora given Jeanne-Marie Beaubier was born in Montreal!?

[Shadowcat]

Okay then, let's really put you to the test What else can you spill? If you've interviewed SLobdell, did you manage to extract from him who he and Joe Madureira had in mind as the parents of Blink/ Clarice Ferguson, and Marrow, respectively (as word has it they had plans which ended up blocked by editorial)? That is, in Uncanny X-Men #316, the first part of the Phalanx Covenant, an indicated location/ hometown of one of the Generation X captives is shown as Quebec, Canada and all the others (i.e. Monet, Husk and Skin) are accounted for except Clarice. However, it was later revealed that she had lived with her parents in the Bahamas. Given Scott did write Alpha Flight might he have intended her to be connected to characters from that title? Perhaps Aurora given Jeanne-Marie Beaubier was born in Montreal!?

Yes, there were plans to tie Clarice to another set of characters already involved in Marvel, but AoA, and then Onslaught/Heroes Reborn sidetracked that. She was originally not supposed to be dead, and would have been one of the new Hellions, but that changed after the success of AoA. Marrow was still an enigma, but he had planned on deepening the connection between Gateway, Emplate, M and Marrow. I believe she was intended to possibly be connected to Mikhail Rasputin’s Morlocks/Gene Nationals, but he never really confirmed any of my fan theories.

[nadler]

Yes, there were plans to tie Clarice to another set of characters already involved in Marvel, but AoA, and then Onslaught/Heroes Reborn sidetracked that. She was originally not supposed to be dead, and would have been one of the new Hellions, but that changed after the success of AoA.

Did Scott reveal where these new Hellions would be sourced from, and who their leader would be now that Emma was working at Xavier's Academy?

Marrow was still an enigma, but he had planned on deepening the connection between Gateway, Emplate, M and Marrow. I believe she was intended to possibly be connected to Mikhail Rasputin’s Morlocks/Gene Nationals, but he never really confirmed any of my fan theories.

Marrow was introduced as leader of Gene Nation, so that connection was already there from the beginning. However, given both she and Blink were designed by Joe Madureira, with Scott, and both manifested "darts" from their bodies, it seems like there might have been an intended connection. Anyone able to reach out to Joe Madureira and ask?

Off the subject of Blink and Marrow, any other spicey tidbits you're able to share?

I note from your tagline you're a fan of Ann Nocenti, so you might be interested in my post here: https://fanfix.wordpress.com/2015/10...ngshots-family

And on the subject of Gateway, prepare for another here: https://fanfix.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/gateways-origin

[Shadowcat]

Ugh. I meant Penance, not Marrow. I apologize. The Hellions were going to be lead by Emplate, or possibly Cordelia and Shinobi, but he didn’t really go too in depth on all of his plans for the characters. He just gave me some clues and tidbits. He planned on coming back after OZT, and had a few new characters that he wanted to introduce, but left due to disagreements with Harras.

[nadler]

Ugh. I meant Penance, not Marrow. I apologize. The Hellions were going to be lead by Emplate, or possibly Selene, but he didn’t really go too in depth on all of his plans for the characters. He just gave me some clues and tidbits.

No need to apologise, I thought Penance was who you meant. I'm intrigued how he intended Gateway to be involved.

Besides Lobdell, any other creators you've interacted with who have spilled beans?

[Shadowcat]

No need to apologise, I thought Penance was who you meant. I'm intrigued how he intended Gateway to be involved.

Besides Lobdell, any other creators you've interacted with who have spilled beans?

Chris Claremont is my favorite, with Kurt Busiek being a close second. Most of the other creators didn’t really divulge too much, because they could either do it at a later date, or retool it for other characters and properties.

[nadler]

Chris Claremont is my favorite, with Kurt Busiek being a close second. Most of the other creators didn’t really divulge too much, because they could either do it at a later date, or retool it for other characters and properties.

Anything you’re able to share that Claremont, and Busiek, related to you when you met with them?

[Shadowcat]

Anything you’re able to share that Claremont, and Busiek, shared when you met with them?

Busiek was tight lipped, but originally Avengers Forever was going to be a much more different story than what we got. He also planned on introducing some of the New Universe characters and concepts to his Avengers run.

The Shadow King War was going to be much deeper. Scott & Jean were going to give birth to Rachel, Jean was going to become the Phoenix again, and he was slowly going to be building to DoFP. There were other things, but I don’t remember all of the details at the moment.

[nadler]

Busiek was tight lipped, but originally Avengers Forever was going to be a much more different story than what we got.

I wonder what he meant by that? Was it perhaps not initially going to attempt to fix The Crossing storyline? I think revealing the Kang from that storyline as Immortus, and the remaining characters as Space Phantoms was somewhat of a mistake, and one day hope to come up with an alternative solution on my blog (wish me luck

He also planned on introducing some of the New Universe characters and concepts to his Avengers run.

Did he indicate which New Universe characters and concepts? I’m assuming the Starbrand to be one, but wonder how and also what others.

The Shadow King War was going to be much deeper. Scott & Jean were going to give birth to Rachel, Jean was going to become the Phoenix again, and he was slowly going to be building to DoFP. There were other things, but I don’t remember all of the details at the moment.

Yep, I’m aware of these and that the Dark Wolverine Saga was going to be a feint, that is the Shadow King manipulates Matsuo Tsurayaba to get the Hand to resurrect Logan into their assassin to lure Jean in to rescue him so they could corrupt her. How this might lead to the Shadow King conquering the stars I’m not sure, but perhaps he intended to use Jean to break open the M'Kraan Crystal and he would play the role Claremont eventually gave to Cassandra Nova in X-Men: The End.

[Vishop]

Just stopping to wish all Wolverine fans Merry Christmas

[nadler]

Okay, a further long-standing Claremont mystery will likely draw the interest of "Shadowcat" for comment. In Spider-Woman #42-4, you'll recall Claremont had Viper claim to be Jessica’s real mother, Merriem Drew. While this was later retconned to simply be a delusion of Viper’s (cf. Captain America #281-2), the resemblance between the two was uncanny and even fooled other HYDRA agents.

Claremont had Logan explain in Wolverine #126 how in the past Seraph gave her life to protect him from Sabretooth, Viper got them both to safety. Did Claremont intend this event to lead to the pair having a moment that unwittingly produced a child Wolverine would be ignorant of? Does Merriem then go on to leave the child with Jonathan Drew, who weaves a story about Jessica’s mother dying when he discovers Merriem has joined HYDRA. Does Claremont then have Jessica and Lindsay McCabe move their practice to Madripoor as part of an investigation into discovering the truth behind Jessica’s parentage? Had Chris remained on the title beyond #10, would he reveal that Jessica was the fruit of Viper and Logan’s union following the above event which initially brought them together? All that’s left now is to discover the truth behind the deal Viper made with Chthon that made Jessica “Childe of the Darkhold”?!

[TheCape]

Just stopping to wish all Wolverine fans Merry Christmas

Merry christmas to you too, biswaboxz

[nadler]

Just stopping to wish all Wolverine fans Merry Christmas

To you also...
Keep on Truckin.jpg

[Wolverine12]

I'd be lying if I said the stories aren't interesting about the interviews, but this is getting OT a bit.

Side note: Merry Christmas!