Logan: Wolverine Appreciation 2018

[Hush]

Yeah i would like him to write Wolverine , he had done some good job with Cap , DD and Batman but i want someone like Ennis to write Wolverine and does not hate superhuman characters as well ...

Yeah Brubaker would be perfect or just give total freedom to Morrison to do whatever he wants with Logan that should be fun lol.

Yeah Marvel is really pushing things like that from Clone Conspiracy to Secret Empire , i do not want to get those types of story lines to make a bad taste for me ....The first issue didn't indicate much about this but let's hope this does not happen in this limited series .....

I dunno, I'm not a fan of clone stories either but if done well it could work. I mean X-23 was created as a clone and it was a nice story (despite the uneven art). There never was an identical clone of Logan, Albert was a cyborg, Kouen had the adamantium bonded to his body as a child so he was bound to die sooner than later, the Wolverine clone created by Sinister during Spider-Man & the X-Men was defective and Park's powers during the Duggan run were also unstable.
Not sure if you can count Weapon H since it's not a clone but just a mix of Hulk, Old Man Logan, Lady Deathstrike and Warpath DNA implanted into a human.

Soule loves to do some metacommentary in some of his stories, so let's say Persephone used Logan's memories to create the perfect antagonist, the kind of "Wolverine" similar to the one we got after Origin/Origin II/House of M/Origins the guy who killed because he was always a mindcontrolled killer, a lapdog and a bloodthirsty animal as revealed by Romulus.

And going against this thing would be the "real" Logan we had pre House of M (minus the hot claws), the one with the mysterious past, the one who always struggle between his humanity and the animal that the Weapon X experiment created, who choosed to be a man and who only killed because he believed there was no other choice.

That could be a good metaphor about what Marvel did to Logan in recent years after Origin/House Of M and having Logan fight against a being created with his own "memories" could be an interesting twist. It could also give to the title of this mini "Return of Wolverine" a deeper meaning, it's not just the return of Logan but the return of the Wolverine people used to love.

That could be a nice fresh start with a Logan back to basics and with a new outlook on the superhero landscape after that whole Death/Return experience.

Of course as you said, looking at what happened in recent years with Clone Conspiracy/Secret Empire or even recently with the clones of Laura created during ANW, I'm not sure if they want to go down that road again. In the end it could just be that Logan was mindcontrolled or something similar and what we seeing right now is Logan's mind trying to make sense of what's happening to him in the real world as GylT'Nav said.

C'mon it can't be that bad, he has Doop there, he is a model employee and such a genttleman.

Ah... the missadventures of serial killer Wolverine guest-starring the rest of the Marvel universe , i think that our lifes would be happier if we don't remember that anymore lol.

I still find enougth in DOW to think of it as... ok, wicth to be fair is less that a characther like Wolverine deserve, but i can't help myself while i read it, mostly because nothing is more important to me in a story that his protagonist, so i can look at it pass the flaws. But yeah, HOW was a dissapointment, Soule's desscompression at his work. And any dissapointment ans disminished enthusiams by the fans is more than fair.

Now that i remember, didn't the Maestro say Logan's adamantium was one of the few thing that could do him a lot of damage?. Althougth to be fair, he probably was just screwing with Banner by telling him that.

Yeah I think it's for the best lol.

That creepy little green thing, I swear I saw him the other day hanging out with a talking duck:



I tell you stange things are going on in this school!

You're right, the characterization was on point and the art was great so it's easy to look past the flaws but yeah for me it wasn't a memorable ending at all and it just felt rushed.

Ah maybe, I only remember that he said that Cap Shield was never dangerous for him in the past because Cap couldn't throw it with enough strength to damage him but Thor's hammer on the other was always dangerous.

Yeah. Between Origins and then HoM, he lost a lot of that mystique that made him so cool to begin with. I wonder how long they will run with this new amnesia?

Looking at the sollicits he should regain some of his memories by the end of issue 3 or in issue 4. But yeah I wouldn't mind if they reveal all the memories he got after House of M were just some memory implants.

As Claremont once said: "The less we know about him, the better".

[Gylfie]

I agree with you guys. I think nothing damaged Logan’s character as much as revealing his true origin in such mundane fashion.

1. Origins revealing Logan wasn’t his real name, his persona was stolen from his mining boss, and that he pines for Jean because Rose.

2. That he wasn’t given his memories back in some epic quest but as a side effect of some lackluster event.

He will always be Logan to me. I will never think of him as James Howlett, a sickly rich boy in a mansion.

I agree with you!

[Gylfie]

.....

Soule loves to do some metacommentary in some of his stories, so let's say Persephone used Logan's memories to create the perfect antagonist, the kind of "Wolverine" similar to the one we got after Origin/Origin II/House of M/Origins the guy who killed because he was always a mindcontrolled killer, a lapdog and a bloodthirsty animal as revealed by Romulus.

And going against this thing would be the "real" Logan we had pre House of M (minus the hot claws), the one with the mysterious past, the one who always struggle between his humanity and the animal that the Weapon X experiment created, who choosed to be a man and who only killed because he believed there was no other choice.

That could be a good metaphor about what Marvel did to Logan in recent years after Origin/House Of M and having Logan fight against a being created with his own "memories" could be an interesting twist. It could also give to the title of this mini "Return of Wolverine" a deeper meaning, it's not just the return of Logan but the return of the Wolverine people used to love.

That could be a nice fresh start with a Logan back to basics and with a new outlook on the superhero landscape after that whole Death/Return experience.

Yes, I would love this!

[WeaponX]

He will always be Logan to me. I will never think of him as James Howlett, a sickly rich boy in a mansion.

See I get what they were doing with that I just think they over played their hand at every turn. Him going from a gentile state to having to fend for himself and except a more bestial nature for survival and to deal with the rage of losing his beloved father. Not to get side tracked but something I can identify with after the sudden untimely passing of my own. Or to emulate a new father figure when he gets to the mines. Or to have a lost love that shapes him as well.

But then they went heavy handed on all of it like the reader would be too stupid to understand it otherwise so the new father figure had to be exactly Logan from cigars, to saying bub, to having traveled to Japan and called in love with it. The lost love had to look exactly like Jean. His rival since childhood had to look exactly like Sabertooth but not actually be Sabretooth. And his decent into his more violent basic nature had to literally have him running with wolves. Just all so lazy and heavy handed.

[Vishop]

Yeah Brubaker would be perfect or just give total freedom to Morrison to do whatever he wants with Logan that should be fun lol.



I dunno, I'm not a fan of clone stories either but if done well it could work. I mean X-23 was created as a clone and it was a nice story (despite the uneven art). There never was an identical clone of Logan, Albert was a cyborg, Kouen had the adamantium bonded to his body as a child so he was bound to die sooner than later, the Wolverine clone created by Sinister during Spider-Man & the X-Men was defective and Park's powers during the Duggan run were also unstable.
Not sure if you can count Weapon H since it's not a clone but just a mix of Hulk, Old Man Logan, Lady Deathstrike and Warpath DNA implanted into a human.

Soule loves to do some metacommentary in some of his stories, so let's say Persephone used Logan's memories to create the perfect antagonist, the kind of "Wolverine" similar to the one we got after Origin/Origin II/House of M/Origins the guy who killed because he was always a mindcontrolled killer, a lapdog and a bloodthirsty animal as revealed by Romulus.

And going against this thing would be the "real" Logan we had pre House of M (minus the hot claws), the one with the mysterious past, the one who always struggle between his humanity and the animal that the Weapon X experiment created, who choosed to be a man and who only killed because he believed there was no other choice.

That could be a good metaphor about what Marvel did to Logan in recent years after Origin/House Of M and having Logan fight against a being created with his own "memories" could be an interesting twist. It could also give to the title of this mini "Return of Wolverine" a deeper meaning, it's not just the return of Logan but the return of the Wolverine people used to love.

That could be a nice fresh start with a Logan back to basics and with a new outlook on the superhero landscape after that whole Death/Return experience.

Of course as you said, looking at what happened in recent years with Clone Conspiracy/Secret Empire or even recently with the clones of Laura created during ANW, I'm not sure if they want to go down that road again. In the end it could just be that Logan was mindcontrolled or something similar and what we seeing right now is Logan's mind trying to make sense of what's happening to him in the real world as GylT'Nav said.

tbh my hopes were dampened when Marvel was teasing Wolverine's return for one year and HFW had total flopped in terms of Logan's POV .I mean they could have easily included those characters in their own comic series as @DThirds said , but Marvel's decisions like changing a renowned artist like Mcniven(although i didn't disagree that he couldn't have finished his work , but Marvel had to make sure of that otherwise what's point of that publicity) and Hunt for Wolverine which no one doubts i guess............ ....But after reading the first issue my hopes of seeing a proper story line for Logan's return actually started to rise again but time is really a factor , i wouldn't deny that at some point i was also enjoying the first issue as well(in terms of storyline not art , art was totally Modern BWS style) but more than enough questions weren't answered , maybe i was little impatient about this but their are only 4 issues left and every now and then adding more characters like avengers into this mess AGAIN(HFW) complicates things in terms of revealing the whole mystery and this whole amnesia which we (wolverine fans) were enjoying will turn out to be a mess i must say. Let's hope that never happens and i wasn't actually against clone agendas but the modern Marvel comical theories proves this clones or doppelgangers are now a joke to a Marvel .......... Likewise i could say the same about Daken , granted he wasn't liked by many fans but WAY actually wanted to make him like that so that he could be antagonist to Logan..... But his character was totally jeopardized on recent comics, not only in terms of CHARACTER(it actually happened during All New All Different Marvel) but his Status Quo as well , i mean how many times he will be dead and come back to his senses in less than 8 years or so ??? That totally creeps out ...... I don't expect much from Marvel , especially what they did to Wolverine franchise in recent years , only Soule had done some good job with DOW(it was classic Wolverine comic with all those characters like kitty , ogun, sabretooth) in last few years and Lemire was also good imo but other than that it always made negative impact for me to read Wolverine now .

[Hush]

tbh my hopes were dampened when Marvel was teasing Wolverine's return for one year and HFW had total flopped in terms of Logan's POV .I mean they could have easily included those characters in their own comic series as @DThirds said , but Marvel's decisions like changing a renowned artist like Mcniven(although i didn't disagree that he couldn't have finished his work , but Marvel had to make sure of that otherwise what's point of that publicity) and Hunt for Wolverine which no one doubts i guess............ ....But after reading the first issue my hopes of seeing a proper story line for Logan's return actually started to rise again but time is really a factor , i wouldn't deny that at some point i was also enjoying the first issue as well(in terms of storyline not art , art was totally Modern BWS style) but more than enough questions weren't answered , maybe i was little impatient about this but their are only 4 issues left and every now and then adding more characters like avengers into this mess AGAIN(HFW) complicates things in terms of revealing the whole mystery and this whole amnesia which we (wolverine fans) were enjoying will turn out to be a mess i must say. Let's hope that never happens and i wasn't actually against clone agendas but the modern Marvel comical theories proves this clones or doppelgangers are now a joke to a Marvel .......... Likewise i could say the same about Daken , granted he wasn't liked by many fans but WAY actually wanted to make him like that so that he could be antagonist to Logan..... But his character was totally jeopardized on recent comics, not only in terms of CHARACTER(it actually happened during All New All Different Marvel) but his Status Quo as well , i mean how many times he will be dead and come back to his senses in less than 8 years or so ??? That totally creeps out ...... I don't expect much from Marvel , especially what they did to Wolverine franchise in recent years , only Soule had done some good job with DOW(it was classic Wolverine comic with all those characters like kitty , ogun, sabretooth) in last few years and Lemire was also good imo but other than that it always made negative impact for me to read Wolverine now .

Well a lot of blame can be put on the editors we got in recent years especially Axel Alonso and Mark Paniccia. Now that they're gone, hopefully things will get better from now on.

About what will happen during Return of Wolverine and the consequences on Logan, I think it's still too early to tell what's really going on. We all have fun with our theories and yeah I can understand being nervous about what Soule is currently doing especially after what happened during Hunt for Wolverine or after what Marvel allowed Way and Loeb to do with Logan's backstory and his characterization in the past, but with any luck the new editors at Marvel learned from past mistakes and they won't messed up again.

I do agree that the first issue of Return of Wolverine reads more like a set up, doesn't give any answers and just keeps building the mystery behind Logan's return. At this point, the set up should have been done with the Hunt and it might have been smarter to start Return of Wolverine by giving some answers about what's really happening.
I just hope Soule's decision won't backfire and he won't have to rush things like he did during Death of Wolverine.

So yeah for now, let's just wait and see until everything is done or at least until we get some answers before drawing conclusions. Who knows, we might be surprised by this story and its consequences on Logan


By the way the preview of Old Man Logan #48 is up:

http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com...-man-logan-48/

Old Man Logan vs The Maestro rematch!

[TheCape]

Yeah Brubaker would be perfect or just give total freedom to Morrison to do whatever he wants with Logan that should be fun lol.



I dunno, I'm not a fan of clone stories either but if done well it could work. I mean X-23 was created as a clone and it was a nice story (despite the uneven art). There never was an identical clone of Logan, Albert was a cyborg, Kouen had the adamantium bonded to his body as a child so he was bound to die sooner than later, the Wolverine clone created by Sinister during Spider-Man & the X-Men was defective and Park's powers during the Duggan run were also unstable.
Not sure if you can count Weapon H since it's not a clone but just a mix of Hulk, Old Man Logan, Lady Deathstrike and Warpath DNA implanted into a human.

Soule loves to do some metacommentary in some of his stories, so let's say Persephone used Logan's memories to create the perfect antagonist, the kind of "Wolverine" similar to the one we got after Origin/Origin II/House of M/Origins the guy who killed because he was always a mindcontrolled killer, a lapdog and a bloodthirsty animal as revealed by Romulus.

And going against this thing would be the "real" Logan we had pre House of M (minus the hot claws), the one with the mysterious past, the one who always struggle between his humanity and the animal that the Weapon X experiment created, who choosed to be a man and who only killed because he believed there was no other choice.

That could be a good metaphor about what Marvel did to Logan in recent years after Origin/House Of M and having Logan fight against a being created with his own "memories" could be an interesting twist. It could also give to the title of this mini "Return of Wolverine" a deeper meaning, it's not just the return of Logan but the return of the Wolverine people used to love.

That could be a nice fresh start with a Logan back to basics and with a new outlook on the superhero landscape after that whole Death/Return experience.

Of course as you said, looking at what happened in recent years with Clone Conspiracy/Secret Empire or even recently with the clones of Laura created during ANW, I'm not sure if they want to go down that road again. In the end it could just be that Logan was mindcontrolled or something similar and what we seeing right now is Logan's mind trying to make sense of what's happening to him in the real world as GylT'Nav said.



Yeah I think it's for the best lol.

That creepy little green thing, I swear I saw him the other day hanging out with a talking duck:



I tell you stange things are going on in this school!

You're right, the characterization was on point and the art was great so it's easy to look past the flaws but yeah for me it wasn't a memorable ending at all and it just felt rushed.

Ah maybe, I only remember that he said that Cap Shield was never dangerous for him in the past because Cap couldn't throw it with enough strength to damage him but Thor's hammer on the other was always dangerous.



Looking at the sollicits he should regain some of his memories by the end of issue 3 or in issue 4. But yeah I wouldn't mind if they reveal all the memories he got after House of M were just some memory implants.

As Claremont once said: "The less we know about him, the better".

That's a great example Doop doesn't judge . That being said some people say stuff about the garden being alive, but that's impossible rigth?....

Is during the first figth between Maestro and Banner, about how they could have send Thor or Wolverine who stand a better chance against him than that particular versionof Hulk. But again, he probably was just rubbing salt in the wound. Not exactly OCC for Maestro.

Soule said that some changes would have to be done to Logan in order to give him.back his dangerous aura, a retcon wouldn't be difficult for this stuff, especially after Secret Wars.

[Hush]

Yes, I would love this!

Thanks, I really like your idea too and to be honest I think your theory is far more plausible than mine lol.

That's a great example Doop doesn't judge . That being said some people say stuff about the garden being alive, but that's impossible rigth?....

Is during the first figth between Maestro and Banner, about how they could have send Thor or Wolverine who stand a better chance against him than that particular versionof Hulk. But again, he probably was just rubbing salt in the wound. Not exactly OCC for Maestro.

Soule said that some changes would have to be done to Logan in order to give him.back his dangerous aura, a retcon wouldn't be difficult for this stuff, especially after Secret Wars.

Now that you mention it, the other day I heard that redhead girl talking to herself in the garden of the school and saying the name Krakoa. I swear after she said that word, the ground of the school began to shake and some diamonds appeared on a nearby tree, really weird stuff...

Ah I completely forgot about that, yeah the Maestro is really good at manipulating people so I wouldn't suprised if he wanted to mess with Bruce's mind.

I'm really curious about what kind of changes he wants to do about Logan and how he's going to do it. But if he wants to retcon away all those memories Logan recovered after House of M I wouldn't complain. Honestly Wolverine really needs a similar story to the Anatomy Lesson Alan Moore did during his Swamp Thing run, that could help make more compeling than how he has been portrayed since House Of M/Origin.


By the way I was re-reading the Weapon X serie by Tieri and I was reminded of the retcon Tieri tried to do regarding the Weapon X experiment. If you remember the original story by Barry Windsor-Smith, Logan was never deployed against humans targets in the "real world" but only via a "simulation" inside his mind (I'm not counting the guard he slaughtered after he discovered his adamantium claws for the first time). Once the simulation was over Logan killed a snow leopard, his jailers and escaped.
Well during Tieri's run on the Weapon X serie (Weapon X vol.2 #23-25), it was revealed that Logan (while mindcontrolled) was indeed used against humans targets and that he killed more than one hundred people including children in the town of Roanoke. Now when Logan, Fantomex and Agent Zero found the location of this place, there was no town, nothing except for one secret underground bunker belonging to Sublime and his U-Men. In Logan's nightmares and fragmented memories, he remembers killing all those people but he also remembers how the Professor and Cornelius ordered a kill squad to burn every traces of what happened.
Sublime made sure to unlock this memory after Logan took a peek at the Weapon X files (during New X-Men #145), so do you think those events really happened or was it just a memory implant/simulation?

My guess is that it was a simulation similar to what happened when Logan thought he killed the Professor and Cornelius because I don't see how it would be possible for Weapon X to have deployed Logan (in civilian clothes nonetheless) in the real world during the Weapon X experiment, I believe Sublime just unlocked this "memory" to mess with Logan's head and with both Fantomex and Agent Zero.
There is also the problem of the memory implants Logan received in Wolverine vol.2 #166 (also written by Tieri and the last time Barry Windsor-Smith drew a Wolverine story) and it was never revealed if those implants took or not.

Although you can also argue that it really happened and Logan's healing factor made him forget, as Sabretooth told him during the Logan Files story. It also doesn't help that the ending didn't make a lot of sense and that this story has been completely ignored ever since Logan regained his "real" memories after House of M.

Speaking of the Professor I still can't believe Marvel and Way thought it was a good idea to reveal his real name was Hudson and that he was the cousin of Wolverine, such nonsense lol.

[Hush]

Soule talks about Return of Wolverine and his future plans for next year:


https://www.charlessoule.com/latest/...hanges-9212018


About Return of Wolverine:


"This week saw the debut, at long last, of Return of Wolverine #1. It's hard to believe it's really on shelves, and people are reading it. I wrote the script in January! Reaction (at least that I've seen and heard) has been strong, which is great - Steve McNiven and I were trying to make Logan feel like a force of nature, a mythological edifice returning to a world that will tremble at his very presence.

Yes, #hotclaws and all.

I just heard today that the issue is going to a second printing, which is amazing. I also just did the lettering draft for #2, which features art by Declan Shalvey and looks incredible. Declan will be on the series through Issue 4, and then Steve comes back for the big, oversized finale with #5. When all is said and done, Dec and Steve will have split the pages right down the middle. It's all written, a bunch is drawn, and I can't wait for you to see where it goes.

It won't be where you're expecting, and some of you might get very angry with me around... oh... Issue 3. But we'll see how you feel when it's all said and done. I couldn't be prouder of the book, and I'm still pinching myself that I got to do this project."




Ladies and Gentlemen, Place Your Bets!

Issue 3 is about the X-Men and issue 4 is about Logan trying to handle the truth about what he's done. So either Logan messed up big time (he committed all the atrocities we saw during the Hunt and is now and irredeemable monster who should be put down) or it's the revelation about who is the X-Traitor teased during Adamantium Agenda.

Either way things are going to get messy in November

[Dthirds3]

I don't want this guess to be right, Logan is going to kill the x trator, realize he willingly did everyting phospone wanted , and is a clone of the original with implanted memories leading to him rather dealing with depression trying to be a person not a weapon thing they did with x23 or be fighting the original so classic can kill him(but done in a way that we won't which which Logan it is) so there are no consequence for his actions

[Vishop]

Soule talks about Return of Wolverine and his future plans for next year:


https://www.charlessoule.com/latest/...hanges-9212018


About Return of Wolverine:


"This week saw the debut, at long last, of Return of Wolverine #1. It's hard to believe it's really on shelves, and people are reading it. I wrote the script in January! Reaction (at least that I've seen and heard) has been strong, which is great - Steve McNiven and I were trying to make Logan feel like a force of nature, a mythological edifice returning to a world that will tremble at his very presence.

Yes, #hotclaws and all.

I just heard today that the issue is going to a second printing, which is amazing. I also just did the lettering draft for #2, which features art by Declan Shalvey and looks incredible. Declan will be on the series through Issue 4, and then Steve comes back for the big, oversized finale with #5. When all is said and done, Dec and Steve will have split the pages right down the middle. It's all written, a bunch is drawn, and I can't wait for you to see where it goes.

It won't be where you're expecting, and some of you might get very angry with me around... oh... Issue 3. But we'll see how you feel when it's all said and done. I couldn't be prouder of the book, and I'm still pinching myself that I got to do this project."




Ladies and Gentlemen, Place Your Bets!

Issue 3 is about the X-Men and issue 4 is about Logan trying to handle the truth about what he's done. So either Logan messed up big time (he committed all the atrocities we saw during the Hunt and is now and irredeemable monster who should be put down) or it's the revelation about who is the X-Traitor teased during Adamantium Agenda.

Either way things are going to get messy in November

Can't really say that there will be another Wolverine vs X-Men issue but at least my POV was always directed towards this direction of seeing that Logan will be facing the X-Men one way or another since the 2nd issue's theme(i.e Sea) was also similar to the 2nd issue's cover that was drawn by Mcniven but there is more to it i guess...and yeah we will get to know the who was the x-traitor during this 3rd or latter issue ,..............i guess it's Firestar since she is a canon fodder but it also seems unlikely since she is going to appear on Iceman #3

[TheCape]

Soule talks about Return of Wolverine and his future plans for next year:


https://www.charlessoule.com/latest/...hanges-9212018


About Return of Wolverine:


"This week saw the debut, at long last, of Return of Wolverine #1. It's hard to believe it's really on shelves, and people are reading it. I wrote the script in January! Reaction (at least that I've seen and heard) has been strong, which is great - Steve McNiven and I were trying to make Logan feel like a force of nature, a mythological edifice returning to a world that will tremble at his very presence.

Yes, #hotclaws and all.

I just heard today that the issue is going to a second printing, which is amazing. I also just did the lettering draft for #2, which features art by Declan Shalvey and looks incredible. Declan will be on the series through Issue 4, and then Steve comes back for the big, oversized finale with #5. When all is said and done, Dec and Steve will have split the pages right down the middle. It's all written, a bunch is drawn, and I can't wait for you to see where it goes.

It won't be where you're expecting, and some of you might get very angry with me around... oh... Issue 3. But we'll see how you feel when it's all said and done. I couldn't be prouder of the book, and I'm still pinching myself that I got to do this project."




Ladies and Gentlemen, Place Your Bets!

Issue 3 is about the X-Men and issue 4 is about Logan trying to handle the truth about what he's done. So either Logan messed up big time (he committed all the atrocities we saw during the Hunt and is now and irredeemable monster who should be put down) or it's the revelation about who is the X-Traitor teased during Adamantium Agenda.

Either way things are going to get messy in November

Worst case scenario: Logan was a double agent in the X-Men all along . Way already did it sure, but Soule didn't read that story, so now he is making his own take lol.

Best case scenario: That story from Wolverine #25 by Jo Duffy is the truht about Logan past, he was actually raised by Wolverines!!!. Of course because of it, Logan is now mean to create one of the greatest civilization in human story, by making the best Beer in the world

[TheCape]

Thanks, I really like your idea too and to be honest I think your theory is far more plausible than mine lol.



Now that you mention it, the other day I heard that redhead girl talking to herself in the garden of the school and saying the name Krakoa. I swear after she said that word, the ground of the school began to shake and some diamonds appeared on a nearby tree, really weird stuff...

Ah I completely forgot about that, yeah the Maestro is really good at manipulating people so I wouldn't suprised if he wanted to mess with Bruce's mind.

I'm really curious about what kind of changes he wants to do about Logan and how he's going to do it. But if he wants to retcon away all those memories Logan recovered after House of M I wouldn't complain. Honestly Wolverine really needs a similar story to the Anatomy Lesson Alan Moore did during his Swamp Thing run, that could help make more compeling than how he has been portrayed since House Of M/Origin.


By the way I was re-reading the Weapon X serie by Tieri and I was reminded of the retcon Tieri tried to do regarding the Weapon X experiment. If you remember the original story by Barry Windsor-Smith, Logan was never deployed against humans targets in the "real world" but only via a "simulation" inside his mind (I'm not counting the guard he slaughtered after he discovered his adamantium claws for the first time). Once the simulation was over Logan killed a snow leopard, his jailers and escaped.
Well during Tieri's run on the Weapon X serie (Weapon X vol.2 #23-25), it was revealed that Logan (while mindcontrolled) was indeed used against humans targets and that he killed more than one hundred people including children in the town of Roanoke. Now when Logan, Fantomex and Agent Zero found the location of this place, there was no town, nothing except for one secret underground bunker belonging to Sublime and his U-Men. In Logan's nightmares and fragmented memories, he remembers killing all those people but he also remembers how the Professor and Cornelius ordered a kill squad to burn every traces of what happened.
Sublime made sure to unlock this memory after Logan took a peek at the Weapon X files (during New X-Men #145), so do you think those events really happened or was it just a memory implant/simulation?

My guess is that it was a simulation similar to what happened when Logan thought he killed the Professor and Cornelius because I don't see how it would be possible for Weapon X to have deployed Logan (in civilian clothes nonetheless) in the real world during the Weapon X experiment, I believe Sublime just unlocked this "memory" to mess with Logan's head and with both Fantomex and Agent Zero.
There is also the problem of the memory implants Logan received in Wolverine vol.2 #166 (also written by Tieri and the last time Barry Windsor-Smith drew a Wolverine story) and it was never revealed if those implants took or not.

Although you can also argue that it really happened and Logan's healing factor made him forget, as Sabretooth told him during the Logan Files story. It also doesn't help that the ending didn't make a lot of sense and that this story has been completely ignored ever since Logan regained his "real" memories after House of M.

Speaking of the Professor I still can't believe Marvel and Way thought it was a good idea to reveal his real name was Hudson and that he was the cousin of Wolverine, such nonsense lol.

Mr Logan has some exentric students, but i'm sure that they all mean well, like that Genesis kid, he is such a genttleman.

Yeah, he is like top 10 when it comes to that in the Marvel Universe.

Wow, i didn't knew about that Tieri's retcon.... i really needs t9 read Weapon X lol.

Lol, i forgot about that, the "everything is connected" trope should have taken a backseat there

[Hush]

I don't want this guess to be right, Logan is going to kill the x trator, realize he willingly did everyting phospone wanted , and is a clone of the original with implanted memories leading to him rather dealing with depression trying to be a person not a weapon thing they did with x23 or be fighting the original so classic can kill him(but done in a way that we won't which which Logan it is) so there are no consequence for his actions

The clone theory eh? Well with the whole Maybelle experiment and the de-extinction and cloning thing revealed in the first issue of ROW something like that could happened (if what we saw in the first issue was real at least).
Regarding Logan dealing with his actions, depression and trying to be a person and not a weapon, this is something that already happened after the Weapon X experiment as shown during the Alpha Flight serie by Byrne in the 80s, during Ennemy of the States or during the Aaron's run I'm not sure if Marvel or Soule would want to go down that road again.
Same for Logan killing the X-traitor we already got that during the Twelve storyline when a mindcontrolled Logan killed the fake Wolverine (a skrull) who had infiltrated the X-Men.

But who knows, clones could be a good theory and could explain why we had several characterizations of Logan since Legacy. Same for Logan doing what Persephone wanted against his will, if she's really inside his head (especially with the wall with the three points similar to Soteira symbol) she might wants Logan to open a certain cell (maybe the Weapon X cell) and use it for her own plans.

Can't really say that there will be another Wolverine vs X-Men issue but at least my POV was always directed towards this direction of seeing that Logan will be facing the X-Men one way or another since the 2nd issue's theme(i.e Sea) was also similar to the 2nd issue's cover that was drawn by Mcniven but there is more to it i guess...and yeah we will get to know the who was the x-traitor during this 3rd or latter issue ,..............i guess it's Firestar since she is a canon fodder but it also seems unlikely since she is going to appear on Iceman #3

Yeah you're right, we must be careful about that cover and sollicits, it might not be a "real fight" with the X-Men but something else, at least the X-Men will be involved.

Regarding the X-Traitor, well Firestar has been one of the main suspect since we got the reveal in Adamantium Agenda, it could make sense too. She joined the X-Men just before the death of Wolverine, she was at his burial so she knew the location of his body, she was also with the X-Men when they took down the reavers during the Hunt one shot and she was again with them during Soteira's attack of the Mansion in Dead Ends.
So anytime something in relation to Wolverine's dead body happened she was always here, it's really suspicious. The traitor could also be a prominent member of the X-Men, if that's the case the reveal could make a large part of the X-Men fanbase really angry too.

Worst case scenario: Logan was a double agent in the X-Men all along. Way already did it sure, but Soule didn't read that story, so now he is making his own take lol.

Best case scenario: That story from Wolverine #25 by Jo Duffy is the truht about Logan past, he was actually raised by Wolverines!!!. Of course because of it, Logan is now mean to create one of the greatest civilization in human story, by making the best Beer in the world

Logan as a double agent wouldn't surprised me to be honest, but with Jordan White as the editor of the book I'm sure he would catch Soule's continuity mistake this time around (unlike Cornelius and Cyber being alive during DOW) since he's a big fan of Wolverine and seems to know Logan's continuity well. But Logan not being a mutant? I mean it could work and makes sense but after the negative backlash Loeb and Marvel got after he revealed that Logan was a lupine and how quickly it was retconned, I'm not sure if Marvel wants to go down that road again lol.

Thinking about this Lupine thing, Loeb was really inspired by Paradise X, and the revelation that the Logan from the Days of Future Past timeline was a descendant of the Moon Clan and that John and Elizabeth Howlett adopted him after they found him as a baby in a forest. What a strange twist...

Ah that story always makes me laugh, it was basically the Jungle Book featuring Wolverine lol. This scene was great:





Never let Logan tells a bedtime story to anyone lol.

Ah so true, Logan the God of Beer and his followers. They should call themseves the Beer Clan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr Logan has some exentric students, but i'm sure that they all mean well, like that Genesis kid, he is such a genttleman.

Yeah, he is like top 10 when it comes to that in the Marvel Universe.

Wow, i didn't knew about that Tieri's retcon.... i really needs t9 read Weapon X lol.

Lol, i forgot about that, the "everything is connected" trope should have taken a backseat there

He has a strange face though and he reminds me of that crazy guy named En Sabah Nur...
So true they took things a little too far, Mac is the half brother of the Professor too and is also Logan's cousin now. Wolverine's family tree is such a mess lol.

[TheCape]

The clone theory eh? Well with the whole Maybelle experiment and the de-extinction and cloning thing revealed in the first issue of ROW something like that could happened (if what we saw in the first issue was real at least).
Regarding Logan dealing with his actions, depression and trying to be a person and not a weapon, this is something that already happened after the Weapon X experiment as shown during the Alpha Flight serie by Byrne in the 80s, during Ennemy of the States or during the Aaron's run I'm not sure if Marvel or Soule would want to go down that road again.
Same for Logan killing the X-traitor we already got that during the Twelve storyline when a mindcontrolled Logan killed the fake Wolverine (a skrull) who had infiltrated the X-Men.

But who knows, clones could be a good theory and could explain why we had several characterizations of Logan since Legacy. Same for Logan doing what Persephone wanted against his will, if she's really inside his head (especially with the wall with the three points similar to Soteira symbol) she might wants Logan to open a certain cell (maybe the Weapon X cell) and use it for her own plans.




Yeah you're right, we must be careful about that cover and sollicits, it might not be a "real fight" with the X-Men but something else, at least the X-Men will be involved.

Regarding the X-Traitor, well Firestar has been one of the main suspect since we got the reveal in Adamantium Agenda, it could make sense too. She joined the X-Men just before the death of Wolverine, she was at his burial so she knew the location of his body, she was also with the X-Men when they took down the reavers during the Hunt one shot and she was again with them during Soteira's attack of the Mansion in Dead Ends.
So anytime something in relation to Wolverine's dead body happened she was always here, it's really suspicious. The traitor could also be a prominent member of the X-Men, if that's the case the reveal could make a large part of the X-Men fanbase really angry too.




Logan as a double agent wouldn't surprised me to be honest, but with Jordan White as the editor of the book I'm sure he would catch Soule's continuity mistake this time around (unlike Cornelius and Cyber being alive during DOW) since he's a big fan of Wolverine and seems to know Logan's continuity well. But Logan not being a mutant? I mean it could work and makes sense but after the negative backlash Loeb and Marvel got after he revealed that Logan was a lupine and how quickly it was retconned, I'm not sure if Marvel wants to go down that road again lol.

Thinking about this Lupine thing, Loeb was really inspired by Paradise X, and the revelation that the Logan from the Days of Future Past timeline was a descendant of the Moon Clan and that John and Elizabeth Howlett adopted him after they found him as a baby in a forest. What a strange twist...

Ah that story always makes me laugh, it was basically the Jungle Book featuring

Never let Logan tells a bedtime story to anyone lol.

Ah so true, Logan the God of Beer and his followers. They should call themseves the Beer Clan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



He has a strange face though and he reminds me of that crazy guy named En Sabah Nur...
So true they took things a little too far, Mac is the half brother of the Professor too and is also Logan's cousin now. Wolverine's family tree is such a mess lol.

You are probably rigth, i get this sensation that althougth Soule does know the solo characthers that he write, that he gets what made then thick like Spider-Man, Daredevil and Wolverine and he isn't afraid of exploring new things, he really doesn't care much for continuity, reading his Astonishing X-Men i basically feel like he was saying at the beggining that he just wanted to write what he wanted too without caring much for qhat 8t came before, beyond the general idea, probably why his Gambit and Cypher were so bad, like he does k ow the basics of then but didn't really care about going much deeper to be honest, but that's just my take. As for Logan not being a mutant, that could be interesting... but i don't think that it would happen, mostly because of branding, X-Men are mutants and Wolverine is the face of then (or at least the team pet lol), from branding purposes it doesn't make sense to have him as "not mutant", but i could be wrong.

Never read Paradise X, is any good?.

Lol, Wolverine is a great babbysitter, but a horrible storyteller, the kid learned some good lessons at the end . That story was just ridicously funny.

Thr Beer Clan has been hidden in the last 100 years, waiting for the return of their master, they had been waiting for too damn long!!!.

Wait for the next plot twist when we discover that Logan is the sixth Summer's brother and the actual father of Jean Grey sister .

P.s: I thougth about making him Kurt's dad, but i couldn't do that to the shippers lol.