Logan: Wolverine Appreciation 2018

[Dthirds3]

Laura wasn't in the Dead Ends one shot (not even a panel of her trying to reconcile what Stark told her) so presumably wasn't around when Persephone popped up at the school to hear about him being back. The fact that she's NOT charging off to go after Soteira — despite taking them down being right in line with her self-assigned mission of preventing anyone else from being used like she was — suggests the X-Men are keeping her in the dark to keep her from doing just that. Which is not only unnecessary (she's only that reckless when she's written by Hopeless) but as you said, a real dick move. Then again, Kitty apparently never bothered to tell her his body was stolen in the first damn place.

i want her to find out, then hit kitty hard enough she forgets every thing she did since gold 1, i feel we all would enjoy that.

[TheCape]

To say something nice about Taylor, i actually like the moment when Logan shields Laura from the warehouse explosion, it remind me to the times when Wolverine would put himself in harm way for his teamates because he was the most likely to surive the biggest hits, still is kind of ruined in the next scene, but still nice touch.

[Colt Cape]

Why hasn't anybody told Old Man Logan about Young Man Logan's body being stolen and, based on what they know, potentially being mind controlled? Seems like something he'd really like to know.

[Hush]

Why hasn't anybody told Old Man Logan about Young Man Logan's body being stolen and, based on what they know, potentially being mind controlled? Seems like something he'd really like to know.

I’m more surprised that he didn’t smell that Logan wasn’t in the adamantium statue to begin with since his body was removed from it before Secret Wars.

[Hush]

If u are saying about those wonderful 10 panels of OML's appearance where he is almost used as minor character then u are welcome to realize that Brisson was obsessive about his own characters, not only for OML whose journey was supposed to end with OML but also for Cable as well because even when his Cable(where half of its arcs were about X-force propaganda) solo series had flopped , he started to make another x-force comic series just for the sake of using baby cable as main protagonist......

Brisson and Taylor are actually regarded as below average writers in terms of writing Wolverine....At least Soule(for his DOW) and Lemire (for his OML) have made an positive impact on me as a Wolverine fan

Not just those panels in Extermination but since the Old Man left the Gold Team, he came back to the mansion in his own series during issues #39-40, he's still in contact with Glob as we saw during the second Bullseye arc, he helped the X-Men, the Avengers, the Defenders and Spider-Man in the first issue of Amazing Spider-Man by Spencer and he was still a member of the Weapon X team after getting his hand chopped off by the Scarlet Samurai (so after he left the Gold Team) by Pak.

So even if most of those appearances are minor, it's not just Brisson but also other writers who established that, while being on the road and staying low, Old Man Logan keeps coming back to the mansion or stays in contact with the X-Men so you think Kitty could have told him what's going on with Wolverine's body, Soteira and Persephone.

Eh for me Brisson and Soule both have the same problems, they got the characterization of Logan right but they have troubles with the pacing and the ending of their stories.

[Vishop]

Not just those panels in Extermination but since the Old Man left the Gold Team, he came back to the mansion in his own series during issues #39-40, he's still in contact with Glob as we saw during the second Bullseye arc, he helped the X-Men, the Avengers, the Defenders and Spider-Man in the first issue of Amazing Spider-Man by Spencer and he was still a member of the Weapon X team after getting his hand chopped off by the Scarlet Samurai (so after he left the Gold Team) by Pak.

So even if most of those appearances are minor, it's not just Brisson but also other writers who established that, while being on the road and staying low, Old Man Logan keeps coming back to the mansion or stays in contact with the X-Men so you think Kitty could have told him what's going on with Wolverine's body, Soteira and Persephone.

Eh for me Brisson and Soule both have the same problems, they got the characterization of Logan right but they have troubles with the pacing and the ending of their stories.

Let's see ..... talking about adding more characters like OML on HFW huh???? , HFW was already a mess due to the oversaturation of characters's developement other than Wolverine itself and on the top of that Laura's origin was retconned by one and only our beloved Tom Taylor which i didn't care about this whole retcon thing anyway but as far as i recall it's was actually an offensive move ......this words were not mine indirectly , Craig Kyle told this words himself ..........

''I haven't visited these boards in a long time, but this conversation drew me back in. you've got it all right. Laura's origin as told by Yost, Tan, Choi, Oback and me is the only version of those events. Any attempts to reimagine, change or retcon those stories should be ignored. I didn't mess with Barry Windsor-Smith's Weapon X story when I crafted Laura's origin, and I expect that same level of respect and care extended to Laura and me. So, rest assured, if it didn't happen in the original pages of Innocence Lost and Target X, it didn't happen at all''

TT not only deconstructed OML but on and on made Laura the spotlight of being Wolverine c'ause she is Wolverine according to TT . wow is this a joke ???? I thought that Laura has her own character and Wolverine franchise doesn't needed to make any of this changes for Logan's legacy and still would have made a much better story together with OML and Laura even better orchestrated then Logan movie itself ..........................

[Vishop]

Eh for me Brisson and Soule both have the same problems, they got the characterization of Logan right but they have troubles with the pacing and the ending of their stories.

I don't think Soule has that problem ,at least when he writes Wolverine in mini series (u might take the reference for DOW) but Brisson yeah sure why not...... Talking about HFW it wasn't his choice of making those decisions(it was Marvel's) and neither did he did wrote majority of those mini series therefore pls don't compare Brisson with Soule because Brisson purposefully wanted to prolong OML to DML because he was obsessive with his own characters and it was proved during Extermination and Soule didn't even know that Marvel is going to bring back Wolverine sooner or later of making him to write Wolverine ... ......

[Dthirds3]

Let's see ..... talking about adding more characters like OML on HFW huh???? , HFW was already a mess due to the oversaturation of characters's developement other than Wolverine itself and on the top of that Laura's origin was retconned by one and only our beloved Tom Taylor which i didn't care about this whole retcon thing anyway but as far as i recall it's was actually an offensive move ......this words were not mine indirectly , Craig Kyle told this words himself ..........

''I haven't visited these boards in a long time, but this conversation drew me back in. you've got it all right. Laura's origin as told by Yost, Tan, Choi, Oback and me is the only version of those events. Any attempts to reimagine, change or retcon those stories should be ignored. I didn't mess with Barry Windsor-Smith's Weapon X story when I crafted Laura's origin, and I expect that same level of respect and care extended to Laura and me. So, rest assured, if it didn't happen in the original pages of Innocence Lost and Target X, it didn't happen at all''

TT not only deconstructed OML but on and on made Laura the spotlight of being Wolverine c'ause she is Wolverine according to TT . wow is this a joke ???? I thought that Laura has her own character and Wolverine franchise doesn't needed to make any of this changes for Logan's legacy and still would have made a much better story together with OML and Laura even better orchestrated then Logan movie itself ..........................

It's not a retcon, in innocence lost they tried to explane why she and Sarah looked alike with some of Sarah's DNA altered Laura, Taylor just did what most fans thought and said if her DNA was present to the extent to alter her appearance shouldn't it show up in Laura's DNA. It was just done rushed in two panels because insted of doing it in ANW marves said squeeze it in a tie in.

The quote also wasn't aimed at this but at making Laura a child prostitut. They hated that, and want it retconned but marvel keeps saying no because she's one of the handful of characters who can be used to tell stories about that subject matter. They also didn't like that she could grow up wanted her to be stuck in a 11 year old body for ever.

For the last part that's more of marvels marketing insted of Taylor and it being the next natural step for her, soule set it up in wolverines wolverines giving her the costume with the intent she took the name so no one else could abuse it(like deadpool) and to honor him not to take the brand, we all knew he would be back and it was a way to get x-23 brand out to more people. OML was only underpowere in orphans of x, but that's was a result of bad guys noticing, if you have bullets that counteract admaitum and healing factors while staying out of arms reach the wolverine clan isn't that threatening. Other times was just him judging people based solely on his timeline(with he did for a good chunk of his series) and had him drugged and disoriented when they fought.

[Hush]

Let's see ..... talking about adding more characters like OML on HFW huh???? , HFW was already a mess due to the oversaturation of characters's developement other than Wolverine itself and on the top of that Laura's origin was retconned by one and only our beloved Tom Taylor which i didn't care about this whole retcon thing anyway but as far as i recall it's was actually an offensive move ......this words were not mine indirectly , Craig Kyle told this words himself ..........

''I haven't visited these boards in a long time, but this conversation drew me back in. you've got it all right. Laura's origin as told by Yost, Tan, Choi, Oback and me is the only version of those events. Any attempts to reimagine, change or retcon those stories should be ignored. I didn't mess with Barry Windsor-Smith's Weapon X story when I crafted Laura's origin, and I expect that same level of respect and care extended to Laura and me. So, rest assured, if it didn't happen in the original pages of Innocence Lost and Target X, it didn't happen at all''

TT not only deconstructed OML but on and on made Laura the spotlight of being Wolverine c'ause she is Wolverine according to TT . wow is this a joke ???? I thought that Laura has her own character and Wolverine franchise doesn't needed to make any of this changes for Logan's legacy and still would have made a much better story together with OML and Laura even better orchestrated then Logan movie itself ..........................

Well maybe not adding more characters but replacing some of the characters involved in the Hunt by other characters who have closer ties to Wolverine like Old Man Logan, Armor, Idie, Deadpool, Mariko and maybe just a panel of someone killing Romulus and Remus would have been great.
Regarding the Craig Kyle quote and what Taylor did during the Hunt, I think it would be better to discuss this development in the X-23 appreciation thread but yeah I’m not a big fan of Taylor’s characterization of Old Man Logan at all and especially Laura’s behavior towards him.

I don't think Soule has that problem ,at least when he writes Wolverine in mini series (u might take the reference for DOW) but Brisson yeah sure why not...... Talking about HFW it wasn't his choice of making those decisions(it was Marvel's) and neither did he did wrote majority of those mini series therefore pls don't compare Brisson with Soule because Brisson purposefully wanted to prolong OML to DML because he was obsessive with his own characters and it was proved during Extermination and Soule didn't even know that Marvel is going to bring back Wolverine sooner or later of making him to write Wolverine ... ......

Well, the ending of Death of Wolverine was abrupt and it just felt like a rushed job for me, Soule also completely messed up the aftermath of this story with Logan Legacy/Weapon X program/Wolverines with a plot that went nowhere, bad characterization and a terrible ending.
Astonishing X-Men was also boring and didn’t need to last 12 issues and while I like Weapon Lost I found the ending abrupt and I don’t think the mini needed to last 4 issues.
His Darth Vader and Swamp Thing series are both amazing though.

Maybe he didn’t write all the Hunt minis but he was the one who orchestrated the whole thing with the 4 minis:
Source: https://www.charlessoule.com/latest/...letter-of-2018

So yeah I think it’s fair to say he completely wasted a lot of people’s time with the Hunt, especially when 1 or 2 issues would have been more than enough to build this mystery and as a second chapter of this trilogy it’s one big disappointment for now. If Return of Wolverine proved to be an entertaining read maybe it will redeem Death of Wolverine and Hunt for Wolverine in my eyes but for now I don’t think this is a great saga at all.

Dead Man Logan was always the endgame of Brisson he told it recently on the Battle of the Atom podcast, he has been building towards it since last September so a year ago. Marvel editors didn’t want two Logan running around so the Old Man had to go, editors also wanted a fight between Old Man Logan and Maestro and bringing back Mariko.

Brisson’s Immortal Iron Fist was excellent by the way, his Bullseye mini was really fun and as of now Extermination is entertaining despite having another mind controlled Logan situation.
His Old Man Logan series might be uneven, but at least he wrote some really good arcs like Days of Anger, Scarlet Samurai, Logan the Hunted or Bullseye Returns which is a lot better than what Soule did with Wolverine with all the Death of Wolverine and Hunt For Wolverine minis in my opinion.

And even if I’m not really hyped about the Dead Man Logan serie, Brisson at least wrote almost all characters correctly and knows Wolverine’s continuity well which is not something I can say about Soule especially after reading Death of Wolverine and all the Wolverine minis and series he wrote afterwards.

[Vishop]

It's not a retcon, in innocence lost they tried to explane why she and Sarah looked alike with some of Sarah's DNA altered Laura, Taylor just did what most fans thought and said if her DNA was present to the extent to alter her appearance shouldn't it show up in Laura's DNA. It was just done rushed in two panels because insted of doing it in ANW marves said squeeze it in a tie in.

The quote also wasn't aimed at this but at making Laura a child prostitut. They hated that, and want it retconned but marvel keeps saying no because she's one of the handful of characters who can be used to tell stories about that subject matter. They also didn't like that she could grow up wanted her to be stuck in a 11 year old body for ever.

For the last part that's more of marvels marketing insted of Taylor and it being the next natural step for her, soule set it up in wolverines wolverines giving her the costume with the intent she took the name so no one else could abuse it(like deadpool) and to honor him not to take the brand, we all knew he would be back and it was a way to get x-23 brand out to more people. OML was only underpowere in orphans of x, but that's was a result of bad guys noticing, if you have bullets that counteract admaitum and healing factors while staying out of arms reach the wolverine clan isn't that threatening. Other times was just him judging people based solely on his timeline(with he did for a good chunk of his series) and had him drugged and disoriented when they fought.

Pls don't ever say that word that TT didn't have any part of it because he had written Generations ANW only to insult Wolverine , Logan could have easily handled those ninjas and on the top of that Wolverine wasn't that much foolish in terms of combat and learning his surroundings and if u say that Soule has a part of Wolverines then i dont knw what to say about that but at least DOW Logan's Legacy #2 showed how much she was angered by Logan's death because he promised her that he will look after her but afterwards she realized that she was proud .

For Laura's origins , TT had made fanbase more toxic(why wasn't Laura involved blah blah) but and Laura's origins was totally more centered towards Laura was Logan's clone in terms of relationship because she was his clone and their relationship wasn't much improvised that Logan has to be Laura's father but he do cared about her .....

Talking about Soule's involvement on Dead Ends as i have said it before on my previous post Soule's actual aim was to write ROW therefore he did give damm thing about other characters and neither Psylocke's psyche was given much of priority as well on HFW DE because there were only 5 issues regarding writing this mystery behind Logan's return......

[Hush]

By the way next week will begin the NYCC 2018 so with any luck Marvel will reveal some interesting informations about Wolverine and the X-Men:

Here are the most interesting panels for Wolverine and X-Men fans:


October 6th, 2018:

MARVEL FANFARE with C.B. Cebulski
12:15 PM - 1:30 PM
Room 1A10

This is your chance to meet the new head of editorial at Marvel! In an exclusive one-on-one interview, freshly-minted Editor-in-Chief C.B. Cebulski will talk about anything and everything involved in what's next for Marvel. Want to know what the future holds for Marvel's mutants? Dying to find out how Spider-Geddon ends? What does Forbush Man really look like without his helmet? Ask C.B. these questions and more in the Q&A! PLUS - don't miss a surprise exclusive giveaway variant comic!

Marvel Comics: Next Big Thing
4:30 PM - 5:30 PM
Main Stage 1D

Monumental events are on the horizon for the Marvel Universe, and Editor-in-Chief C.B. Cebulski can't wait to tell you all about them! Industry luminaries Jason Aaron (Avengers, Conan the Barbarian), Donny Cates (Guardians of the Galaxy), Gerry Duggan (Infinity Wars), and Dan Slott (Fantastic Four, Tony Stark: Iron Man) have incredible new stories in store for your favorite characters, and this is the place to hear about them first! PLUS - don't miss a surprise exclusive giveaway variant comic!



October 7th, 2018:

Marvel Comics: X-Men
11:00 AM - 12:00 PM
Room 1A10

X-Traordinary things are in store for Marvel's Merry Mutants! Editor X the X-Treme (AKA Jordan White) is joined by superhuman talents Ed Brisson (Dead Man Logan, Uncanny X-Men), Sina Grace (Iceman), Matthew Rosenberg (Uncanny X-Men), Charles Soule (Return of Wolverine), and Leah Williams (X-Men Black) for a fun-filled forum. The current X-Men teams unite this November under one uncanny banner! Wolverine has returned under mysterious circumstances, but his aged counterpart might not be so lucky! All this, and Iceman reunited with his Amazing Friends! PLUS - don't miss a surprise exclusive giveaway comic!


If you want to see the schedule for all the NYCC 2018 Marvel Panels, check this link:

Source: https://www.marvel.com/nycc-new-york...hedules/panels

[Vishop]

Well maybe not adding more characters but replacing some of the characters involved in the Hunt by other characters who have closer ties to Wolverine like Old Man Logan, Armor, Idie, Deadpool, Mariko and maybe just a panel of someone killing Romulus and Remus would have been great.
Regarding the Craig Kyle quote and what Taylor did during the Hunt, I think it would be better to discuss this development in the X-23 appreciation thread but yeah I’m not a big fan of Taylor’s characterization of Old Man Logan at all and especially Laura’s behavior towards him.



Well, the ending of Death of Wolverine was abrupt and it just felt like a rushed job for me, Soule also completely messed up the aftermath of this story with Logan Legacy/Weapon X program/Wolverines with a plot that went nowhere, bad characterization and a terrible ending.
Astonishing X-Men was also boring and didn’t need to last 12 issues and while I like Weapon Lost I found the ending abrupt and I don’t think the mini needed to last 4 issues.
His Darth Vader and Swamp Thing series are both amazing though.

Maybe he didn’t write all the Hunt minis but he was the one who orchestrated the whole thing with the 4 minis:
Source: https://www.charlessoule.com/latest/...letter-of-2018

So yeah I think it’s fair to say he completely wasted a lot of people’s time with the Hunt, especially when 1 or 2 issues would have been more than enough to build this mystery and as a second chapter of this trilogy it’s one big disappointment for now. If Return of Wolverine proved to be an entertaining read maybe it will redeem Death of Wolverine and Hunt for Wolverine in my eyes but for now I don’t think this is a great saga at all.

Dead Man Logan was always the endgame of Brisson he told it recently on the Battle of the Atom podcast, he has been building towards it since last September so a year ago. Marvel editors didn’t want two Logan running around so the Old Man had to go, editors also wanted a fight between Old Man Logan and Maestro and bringing back Mariko.

Brisson’s Immortal Iron Fist was excellent by the way, his Bullseye mini was really fun and as of now Extermination is entertaining despite having another mind controlled Logan situation.
His Old Man Logan series might be uneven, but at least he wrote some really good arcs like Days of Anger, Scarlet Samurai, Logan the Hunted or Bullseye Returns which is a lot better than what Soule did with Wolverine with all the Death of Wolverine and Hunt For Wolverine minis in my opinion.

And even if I’m not really hyped about the Dead Man Logan serie, Brisson at least wrote almost all characters correctly and knows Wolverine’s continuity well which is not something I can say about Soule especially after reading Death of Wolverine and all the Wolverine minis and series he wrote afterwards.

I don't why u are saying DOW abruptly ended because the ending of the DOW clearly showed what Logan's is been doing for all those except for killing people by Cornilleus and then those four panels showed that what Logan has been doing except for killing which was beautiful orchestrated imo and adamantium statue wasn't bad either .........

IDK much about the aftermath of DOW scenario but the least i can say that DOW Logan Legacy was well orchestrated in terms of all the characters like Laura's feelings after Logan's death

[Ambaryerno]

I don't why u are saying DOW abruptly ended because the ending of the DOW clearly showed what Logan's is been doing for all those except for killing people by Cornilleus and then those four panels showed that what Logan has been doing except for killing which was beautiful orchestrated imo and adamantium statue wasn't bad either .........

IDK much about the aftermath of DOW scenario but the least i can say that DOW Logan Legacy was well orchestrated in terms of all the characters like Laura's feelings after Logan's death

I don’t think it was DOW itself, so much as the aftermath being cut short by Secret Wars. Wolverines certainly ended abruptly.

[Vishop]

I don’t think it was DOW itself, so much as the aftermath being cut short by Secret Wars. Wolverines certainly ended abruptly.

Why would u say that???

[TheCape]

No problem! Wolverine & Daredevil team-up? Not a lot I'm affraid:

- Daredevil Vol.1 # 196 & 248-249
- wolverine and the xmen vol.2 #7 (just a short conversation between them)
- Punisher vol.6 #33-37
- Marvel Comics Presents vol.1 #150-151
- Fallen Son: The Death of Captain America Vol 1 #1
- Infinity War Vol.1 #2 (not really a team up but a nice Wolverine's scene that surprised Daredevil)
- Wolverine vo.3 #23-24 (Wolverinee/Daredevil fight during Ennemy of the States)

Also Wolverine was wearing that strange black costume in the Marvel Comics Presents story:



Soule's best work? I haven't finished it yet but if the ending is good Swamp Thing might be the best thing I've read from him. I also really like his Darth Vader serie and despite the horrible art I've enjoyed his She-Hulk run.

Yeah that Generations Wolverine one shot was really terrible for Logan's fans unfortunately and about Aaron's Thor that's true he really sounds like Hercules especially during that flashback scene in Thor #6 which was really reminiscent of the Logan/Hercules scene from Wolverine-Hercules - Myths, Monsters and Mutants mini.

Ah so true about Gwen, she really thought highly of herself, but I mostly blame Stan Lee's writing of women to be honest lol.

Regarding Logan's behavior I think it's a mix writers who were inspired by the Ultimate Universe and by the movies but also by a lack a research.

I agree, Logan and Kurt road trip should happen after his return! I just hope they won't come across a Wendigo or something lol.

As for Jimmy if I have to guess either he's gone in Extermination or during Uncanny X-Men Disassembled. Or maybe he will play a role in the future Carnage one shot especially after what happened to Kasady in Venomized.

Thanks for the list, based in the little that i read, Matt and Logan don't seem to care much for the other, although i headcannon that Matt might be still a little afraid of him for what happened in Enemy of the State, althought why Wolverine was jelaous about his sexual life we would never know .

Lol, it seems that Logan was taking fashion tips for Daredevil in the 90s.

Good list, i think that his Swamp Thing is the run that put him on the radar for many fans, but i'm not sure, i read the first issue of his Darth Vader, it was good but i haven't been able to continued with it sadly, lack of time. Never read his She Hulk, but i wanted to read a bit more of Jeniffer before going for that run, maybe Byrne or Slott work.

Lord help us if Taylor is the new Wolverine writer, he clearly can't see much of him past the archetype, but we already talked too much about, nice post about Logan and Amiko's bond, that Steven Skorce run was pretty nice, the moment when Logan adopted her might be among my top ten 10 favorite Wolverine moments , pitty that most writers sort of forget that she is thing. Ah man i thought exactly the same when i saw that scene, it felt really similar

Yeah, writing women wasn't his forte, but i feel than that was more Dikto than him, now his MJ thought that was a thing for another plantet lol, i still laught of all his silly dialogue, my biggest regret is that he never got to write Wolverine, i would have find it hilarious.

That's probably the reason, i really wish that people at the very least read Claremont, BWS and Hama as their to go approach when it comes to Logan, the last one might have been a bit too over the place with his plots, but he really got Wolverine's voice right. Another thing, regarding giving Wolverine his mystery aura again, someone at some point suggested the idea of Logan knowing his past with zero ammnesia, but we as the readers don't know what it is, we just get some small glimpses when the story requires it. I thought that it could be an interesting variation of the idea, what do you think?.

What is a bro road trip without fighting a Wendigo, they should bring Colossus along too, guy needs a hug after all the **** that he went through in the last few years.