Logan: Wolverine Appreciation 2018

[Vishop]

After Jean's app on ROW #2 screaming out on forums, i have heard few things from some people talking about Logan's POV with respect to his relationship with Jean and I have to say I pity them for knowing nothing about Logan except for talking trash. But I really wanted knw from Logan fans ,what do they think about Logan's POV with his relationship with Jean ,not Jean's btw(i don't care about her)....

[TheCape]

An unhealthy obssesion that doesn't do him any good. It wasn't like that originally, he was a in love with her but eventually accepted the situation (she was in love with Scott not him) and became good friends. After her death in Morrison's run it went full on obsession and frankly i mostly blame the movies for it.

To be honest the reason of why i can't take then seriously if that it was mostly born out Claremont petyness for not getting his way with Scott/Madelyne, also he make Logan come across as a complete creep in Classic X-Men but that's another story.

Still i do like their romance in the AoA universe, but that's another story.

[Hush]

Yeah I felt their relationship ended most badly(not sadly) comparing to any of his relationships he ever had .

I remember her writing an article or book regarding his life after his death and she felt quite weird when she met Storm .

Yeah their meeting was really weird lol.

Do u think X-Men are going to get involved MCU ? I felt quite surprised to see Oyama there

As bersekerclaw said, originaly this story about Bullseye having his spine repaired and the Shinji Oyama character and his children had no ties to the Wolverine universe, if I’m not mistaken even the word “adamantium” wasn’t used in the original story, the same way it’s not used in the Netflix show for legal reasons.

It wasn’t until Bill Mantlo “rewrote” parts of this story during Alpha Flight vol.1 #33-34 where Logan meets for the first time Lady Deathstrike (still human) that a link between Wolverine and Lord Dark Wind was established most notably it was said for the first time that Lord Dark Wind’s work on the adamantium bonding process was stolen and used to infuse the adamantium on Logan’s bones, the same way he bonded adamantium to Bullseye's spine. Basically Deahtrike was pissed and wanted Logan skeleton lol.

What’s funny is at first Logan wasn’t Lady Deathstrike’s main target it was Bullseye because he betrayed her father but she found Logan’s adamantium signature first. Yet as time went on she became obsessed with Logan to the point she asked Pierce to turn her into a cyborg and what’s even funnier is that she seemed to have no problem working with Bullseye during Civil War, the guy who she wanted revenge on in the first place.

But to go back on topic, once the Fox/Disney merger is fully complete, I'm sure Daredevil is going to team-up with some mutant characters and a team-up with Wolverine would be amazing!

Well, according to him, he eat his own flesh to survive once, maybe he just got used to taste of his own blood, lets hope that doesn't use that as an ingredient in his new cooking busines lol.

Kojima was putting half of the effor in the scene with Quiet in the rain . But seriously, the idea of Skullface isn't completly worthless, but the acting and direction didn't help him at all.

True, they should ask the Power Pack, they know how good of a babysitter Logan is !!!!. Ah yeah, Emma reaction to Melita was priceless lol.

Ah thank you for the correction. Yeah, is even wierder when you consider than that was the time when he was trying to be less crazy, still i loved the small contest that he had with while beating those goons in the docks. Thinking about i wouldn't mind if Logan first apperance in the MCU is in the Daredevil Netflix show, it could be cool to see Matt looking for a misterious small man who apparently has metal claws in his hands.

Thinking about it a lot of things tried to eat Wolverine in the past: Mauvais, a T-Rex, Predator X, The Wendigo, Logan himself or even Old Banner in the Old Man Logan universe. Really strange when you think about it lol.

Yeah the concept was interesting but the execution left a lot to be desired.

I always like this scene in Uncanny X-Men 205, where Logan tells Katie that no matters what happens he will always be her friend, that was nice!

Ah I love the next scene when Melita said she doesn’t like Emma and Logan said “nobody does” lol.

Logan and Matt having this small contest reminds me of the several contests Legolas and Gimli had during The Lord of the Rings saga lol.

Yeah that would be cool, especially if they decide to rewrite the original Daredevil story involving Bullseye/Lord Dark Wind/Yuriko, it could help make the rivalry between Lady Deathstrike and Logan much more compelling and interesting.

What comic is that from?

Wolverine vol 3 #73-#74, is a backup story by Aaron and Kubert called "A mile by my mocassins", is pretty good.

Yep as TheCape said it’s from Wolverine vol.3 73-74, A Mile in my mocassins short story by Aaron and Adam Kubert, such a great tale!

[TheCape]

Yeah their meeting was really weird lol.



As bersekerclaw said, originaly this story about Bullseye having his spine repaired and the Shinji Oyama character and his children had no ties to the Wolverine universe, if I’m not mistaken even the word “adamantium” wasn’t used in the original story, the same way it’s not used in the Netflix show for legal reasons.

It wasn’t until Bill Mantlo “rewrote” parts of this story during Alpha Flight vol.1 #33-34 where Logan meets for the first time Lady Deathstrike (still human) that a link between Wolverine and Lord Dark Wind was established most notably it was said for the first time that Lord Dark Wind’s work on the adamantium bonding process was stolen and used to infuse the adamantium on Logan’s bones, the same way he bonded adamantium to Bullseye's spine. Basically Deahtrike was pissed and wanted Logan skeleton lol.

What’s funny is at first Logan wasn’t Lady Deathstrike’s main target it was Bullseye because he betrayed her father but she found Logan’s adamantium signature first. Yet as time went on she became obsessed with Logan to the point she asked Pierce to turn her into a cyborg and what’s even funnier is that she seemed to have no problem working with Bullseye during Civil War, the guy who she wanted revenge on in the first place.

But to go back on topic, once the Fox/Disney merger is fully complete, I'm sure Daredevil is going to team-up with some mutant characters and a team-up with Wolverine would be amazing!



Thinking about it a lot of things tried to eat Wolverine in the past: Mauvais, a T-Rex, Predator X, The Wendigo, Logan himself or even Old Banner in the Old Man Logan universe. Really strange when you think about it lol.

Yeah the concept was interesting but the execution left a lot to be desired.

I always like this scene in Uncanny X-Men 205, where Logan tells Katie that no matters what happens he will always be her friend, that was nice!

Ah I love the next scene when Melita said she doesn’t like Emma and Logan said “nobody does” lol.

Logan and Matt having this small contest reminds me of the several contests Legolas and Gimli had during The Lord of the Rings saga lol.

Yeah that would be cool, especially if they decide to rewrite the original Daredevil story involving Bullseye/Lord Dark Wind/Yuriko, it could help make the rivalry between Lady Deathstrike and Logan much more compelling and interesting.






Yep as TheCape said it’s from Wolverine vol.3 73-74, A Mile in my mocassins short story by Aaron and Adam Kubert, such a great tale!

Apparently Wolverine flesh is that tasty lol.

"The Wounded Wolf" is such a great done in one tale and BWS art is amazing, i think than that was the first time that he drawn a Wolverine-only tale.

I thougth the the same when i saw the scene. Honestly i wouldn't mind if Logan isn't immediatly in the MCU X-Men and he is just get something similar to The Punisher.

[Hush]

After Jean's app on ROW #2 screaming out on forums, i have heard few things from some people talking about Logan's POV with respect to his relationship with Jean and I have to say I pity them for knowing nothing about Logan except for talking trash. But I really wanted knw from Logan fans ,what do they think about Logan's POV with his relationship with Jean ,not Jean's btw(i don't care about her)....

I like them as friends but that's it nothing more, Logan has moved on a long time ago (even if most writers forgot about it), Scott has moved on (also forgot about it), it's time for Jean to move on too.

I do like Logan's relationship with AOA Jean, but yeah it's a completely different situation.

Also when you think that Logan couldn't see the difference between Jean and Rose when he died during the Logan's files story, that makes his obsession with Jean even more unhealhty lol.

[Hush]

Apparently Wolverine flesh is that tasty lol.

"The Wounded Wolf" is such a great done in one tale and BWS art is amazing, i think than that was the first time that he drawn a Wolverine-only tale.

I thougth the the same when i saw the scene. Honestly i wouldn't mind if Logan isn't immediatly in the MCU X-Men and he is just get something similar to The Punisher.

I forgot that Carnage also ate his claws too but to be honest Carnage loves to eat everything lol. Yeah that could be the explanation

I agree it's still one of the best Wolverine story ever written, the Katie/Logan friendship, the Logan fight with Deathstrike was brutal and seeing Logan struggles with his humanity while Deathstrike completely abandons her own was great. And I love what Logan said to Katie at the end:

"There's a part of me as wild an' fierce as my namesake. I'm a hard man.. given to hard ways.. when I fight, it's to win. That isn't pretty, an' it sure isn't nice. But bein' a man.. that means choosin' to grow an' change an' put aside the old ways."

Just a perfect description of Logan's personality

And you're right I believe it was the first time BWS drew a Wolverine "solo" issue, I'm still surprised he didn't draw more issues during the Claremont's run but at least he gave us the fantastic Weapon X story afterwards and even years later he drew Logan again during the Tieri's run.

Yeah maybe not part of the X-Men team at first, but i think he's too popular to appear in a tv show before a movie but him having his own tv show could be great too

[TheCape]

I forgot that Carnage also ate his claws too but to be honest Carnage loves to eat everything lol. Yeah that could be the explanation

I agree it's still one of the best Wolverine story ever written, the Katie/Logan friendship, the Logan fight with Deathstrike was brutal and seeing Logan struggles with his humanity while Deathstrike completely abandons her own was great. And I love what Logan said to Katie at the end:

"There's a part of me as wild an' fierce as my namesake. I'm a hard man.. given to hard ways.. when I fight, it's to win. That isn't pretty, an' it sure isn't nice. But bein' a man.. that means choosin' to grow an' change an' put aside the old ways."

Just a perfect description of Logan's personality

And you're right I believe it was the first time BWS drew a Wolverine "solo" issue, I'm still surprised he didn't draw more issues during the Claremont's run but at least he gave us the fantastic Weapon X story afterwards and even years later he drew Logan again during the Tieri's run.

Yeah maybe not part of the X-Men team at first, but i think he's too popular to appear in a tv show before a movie but him having his own tv show could be great too

"Humm.... very canadian flavored with a touch of bear, Venom likes it" .

That quote is great and yeah, it describe Logan perfectly. Their friendship is bizarre but kind of endearing. I always wonder why Logan likes to help young people so much, but i supposed that he being small and weak in points of his life, feels the need to help others that he see as small and weak.

A tv show could be great, with the first episodes playing Logan as an urban legend and then presenting him little by litle

[Hush]

"Humm.... very canadian flavored with a touch of bear, Venom likes it".

Venom must be friend with Dog Logan:



lol

That quote is great and yeah, it describe Logan perfectly. Their friendship is bizarre but kind of endearing. I always wonder why Logan likes to help young people so much, but i supposed that he being small and weak in points of his life, feels the need to help others that he see as small and weak.

It reminds me of what Frank Castle said to Logan:





But seriously, I think she was really brave in this issue and despite Logan acting like an animal and looking really scary she never gave up on him and she treated him like a man which is not something a lot of people do around him. Without her Logan would have been dead so I think he doesn't really see her as weak but as someone much more stronger than she thinks she is and what other people thinks of her, and Logan also knows he owes her his life.

But it's also a way to contrast how different are Logan and Katie worldview and how in the end without using violence Katie proved to be the hero of the story and how her presence bring out the best from Logan. It might be one of the reason why it was always cool to see Logan teaming up with younger character like Jubilee or Kitty during the 80s and 90s.

At least that's how I see it.

A tv show could be great, with the first episodes playing Logan as an urban legend and then presenting him little by litle

Yeah, it could be fun especially after hearing the Long Night podcast!

[Vishop]

An unhealthy obssesion that doesn't do him any good. It wasn't like that originally, he was a in love with her but eventually accepted the situation (she was in love with Scott not him) and became good friends. After her death in Morrison's run it went full on obsession and frankly i mostly blame the movies for it.

To be honest the reason of why i can't take then seriously if that it was mostly born out Claremont petyness for not getting his way with Scott/Madelyne, also he make Logan come across as a complete creep in Classic X-Men but that's another story.

Still i do like their romance in the AoA universe, but that's another story.

I respectfully disagree with his obsession being influenced by movies cause's it was shown more often that Logan being dreaming about Jean a no of of times before Morrison run . Therefore it's nothing new about Logan dreaming about Jean ,but since Jean expressed her feeling towards him before her death ,it led to somewhat more trauma for Logan which cause more dreams for Jean after that .



Only thing that movies influenced in Logan's life on comics were
1)Popularity
2)Overexposure- That maybe the reason why Jean and Logan became couple ASM ROV but i don't think think it has to do anything with Logan 616 , as Scott explained
3) Retconned Relationships and Origins time after time

After Mariko's death , her death made him so much traumatized that he realized that he was willing to sacrifice his feelings for Jean's love during Fatal Attractions and it wasn't the first time that he has done that (Morisson run ,twice and Wolverine and the X-Men in front of Scott) .



I wouldn't deny that he has an unhealthy obsession but his obsession didn't tend to stop his sacrifice for his feelings .
I wouldn't say that Jean has feelings for him but she do cared about him that was being shown a no of times with or without Morrison and Classic X-Men .


IMO I think that writers never tend write this relationship with serious ethics or depth(which has happened with Logan's life , time and time again) , especially for Jean's POV , therefore i never care or bothered about this relationship .

Only thing that bothers me right now i.e whether we will be getting any ongoing series or not and reprise his relationship with Mariko after his return(with some consistency) , which i believe to be the Logan's love of his life .

P.S: Tbh i thought AOA Jean and Logan do have more similarities than his relationship with Jean but sadly editors ended their relationship sooner .

[The Kid]

I'd love to see him and Jean just be good friends. I've always thought that it's time for Logan to resolve his thoughts and move on completely. His 'feelings' for Jean have run their course imo. There's only so much you can do with it and it became stale a long time ago. Especially when you know they're never gonna get together.

As for the movies, I think the biggest influences it had on comics Logan were:

1. They committed to getting down an origin for him (this had both good and bad implications)
2. He started to be drawn more like Hugh Jackman (this was especially seen in the Ultimate line though)

[Vishop]

I'd love to see him and Jean just be good friends. I've always thought that it's time for Logan to resolve his thoughts and move on completely. His 'feelings' for Jean have run their course imo. There's only so much you can do with it and it became stale a long time ago. Especially when you know they're never gonna get together.

As for the movies, I think the biggest influences it had on comics Logan were:

1. They committed to getting down an origin for him (this had both good and bad implications)
2. He started to be drawn more like Hugh Jackman (this was especially seen in the Ultimate line though)

lol i totally forgot about that !!

[Vishop]

@Cape and this

[TheCape]

I respectfully disagree with his obsession being influenced by movies cause's it was shown more often that Logan being dreaming about Jean a no of of times before Morrison run . Therefore it's nothing new about Logan dreaming about Jean ,but since Jean expressed her feeling towards him before her death ,it led to somewhat more trauma for Logan which cause more dreams for Jean after that .



Only thing that movies influenced in Logan's life on comics were
1)Popularity
2)Overexposure- That maybe the reason why Jean and Logan became couple ASM ROV but i don't think think it has to do anything with Logan 616 , as Scott explained
3) Retconned Relationships and Origins time after time

After Mariko's death , her death made him so much traumatized that he realized that he was willing to sacrifice his feelings for Jean's love during Fatal Attractions and it wasn't the first time that he has done that (Morisson run ,twice and Wolverine and the X-Men in front of Scott) .



I wouldn't deny that he has an unhealthy obsession but his obsession didn't tend to stop his sacrifice for his feelings .
I wouldn't say that Jean has feelings for him but she do cared about him that was being shown a no of times with or without Morrison and Classic X-Men .


IMO I think that writers never tend write this relationship with serious ethics or depth(which has happened with Logan's life , time and time again) , especially for Jean's POV , therefore i never care or bothered about this relationship .

Only thing that bothers me right now i.e whether we will be getting any ongoing series or not and reprise his relationship with Mariko after his return(with some consistency) , which i believe to be the Logan's love of his life .

P.S: Tbh i thought AOA Jean and Logan do have more similarities than his relationship with Jean but sadly editors ended their relationship sooner .

Oh i know that it was there, but it was easily ignorable and after the wedding it really wasn't brougth up, AoA aside. But after the movies and Morrison's run, the triangle and Logan's feeling for Jean tend to get mentioned a lot more, then you add him having that lock of her hair and it gets creepier. At least in the 90s, it was clear that he wasn't going to try anything. I do agreed with the rest of your post thougth and i think that most of us can find common ground in the "No to Jogan" camp lol.

[TheCape]

Also Millar mentioned that he put Jean and Logan together in the Ultimate Universe because he liked their dynamic in the movies, but that's also another thing entirely lol.

[TheSupernaut]

Speaking of Ultimate Wolverine, how do you guys feel about him and his characterization? Would you have liked to see a solo title featuring this version back in the day?