Scott Summers: Cyclops Appreciation 2018

[SpiderClops]

One question (what if) for all of you :

Let's say Jean lived and her and Scott did not break up. House of M still happened, Mutant nearly extinct etc...

Do you think Scott would still do the same 'questionable' actions such as X-Force etc? Do you think Jean would have turned a bit more militant too?

I'll start off a little, while I don't think Scott would have become as militant as he was with Jean around, I do think that Jean would have become a bit more militant then she was previously characterised along with Scott.

Yes. No clue what Jean would do.

[AHRNIHAL]

And R-Rated Adventure of Cyclops n Phoenix is what we realllly need and want!

Marvel should cooperate with Rockstar to provide the best redemption story for Scott ... although he don’t need one.

P.S If none of the X-Men is gon love Scott for who he is, then they can F off.

Well,phoenix is in love with thor now.

[Abbz_A]

One question (what if) for all of you :

Let's say Jean lived and her and Scott did not break up. House of M still happened, Mutant nearly extinct etc...

Do you think Scott would still do the same 'questionable' actions such as X-Force etc? Do you think Jean would have turned a bit more militant too?

I'll start off a little, while I don't think Scott would have become as militant as he was with Jean around, I do think that Jean would have become a bit more militant then she was previously characterised along with Scott.

I do hope Jean would have shown a more militant and aggressive take since the situation was calling for one
Jean is always associated as a one dimensional character, and I do not think that’s the case. I also want an unapologetic badass female leader and that screams Jean to me

Well,phoenix is in love with thor now.

Oops! I meant Cyclops and Jean!

[AHRNIHAL]

Oops! I meant Cyclops and Jean!

Oh,well.I wished you meant emma.lol.

[PrezValentine]

Guys, have you read Astonishing X-Men 017?

Rosenberg really likes Scott.
Alex and Alisson have a very emotional moment talking about Scott.
But still, I can't help but think about how Kitty Pryde sounded enormously hypocritical here. ¬¬




No X-Men came for Scott after his death, except for Emma.


EDIT...



Oops, sorry, l hadn't seen even your poster till then.

Kitty was written as such an ******* in this, I can't help but feel sorry for her fans, particularly with her talking **** about Alex after what he did.

But Colossus putting her in her place and burying that ship for years to come? That was just magic. Thank God for Rosenberg being aware of how awful Guggenheim made her.

[Kwentiel]

It totally would be if not for the fact that Nathan/Nathania basically means "Gift from God" in Hebrew.

Given Sinister's ego, it is entirely in-character for him to fully embrace the idea of him being both the divine gift and the deity.

If I remember correctly, in Inferno Madelyne says that the name Nathan was her idea and Scott didn't like it a lot. When he was a baby, Scott called his son Chris.
So, Probably Sinester influenced Madelyne to name the kid.

[Del torro]

Kitty was written as such an ******* in this, I can't help but feel sorry for her fans, particularly with her talking **** about Alex after what he did.

But Colossus putting her in her place and burying that ship for years to come? That was just magic. Thank God for Rosenberg being aware of how awful Guggenheim made her.

Seriously, Alex has led more teams than her

[CuteClops]

Hey, guys,
Let's vote for Cyclops.

http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com...-elite-8-vote/

[Ulfhammer]

I keep thinking that she is Maddie. Or more like with Maddies personality, close to it.

I'd agree the current incarnation is closer to Maddie (circa the Outback) than Jean (circa Morrison even). It's disturbing because it's close enough to the real Jean to feel somewhat familiar, but then she speaks and this weird voice comes out. It's the whole uncanny valley theory.

[Ulfhammer]

Interesting, in that you have seen that the current Jean is different from the one before? and why a relationship of the current Jean and Scott couldn't work? Obviously they are different than they were before, especially Scott just look at everything that has changed in recent years.
But still I don't really see why they could not work. As for Jean actually we have not seen too much of her to say that she is different than before, I just didn't like Red too much because of the fact that Jean is too powerful and makes Cassandra look very weak, heros are always more great if their enemy is harder to defeat, if the enemies are easy it becomes boring.

I'm not saying they can't work. I'm saying I'm not sure I want them to. These characters have evolved to the point that the relationship they had in the 90's feels out of reach. They're both very different people now, having gone through significant transformations, both thematically and from a personality perspective. I guess what I'm saying is that the couple I love is pretty much gone. They could create something completely new. It just wouldn't be what it was.

I don't want to go too far down the path of describing Jean's changes in this thread. Suffice it to say, beyond the color of the characters hair, I see little resemblance.

Sorry for sidetracking the thread with my usual rubbish .

[DianaWw]

Hey, guys,
Let's vote for Cyclops.

http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com...-elite-8-vote/

If Scott wins and Emma wins it be Scott vs Emma.
If at the end we get a Jean vs Scott omg 'giggles' r a Emma vs Jean.

[Hizashi]

I'm not saying they can't work. I'm saying I'm not sure I want them to. These characters have evolved to the point that the relationship they had in the 90's feels out of reach. They're both very different people now, having gone through significant transformations, both thematically and from a personality perspective. I guess what I'm saying is that the couple I love is pretty much gone. They could create something completely new. It just wouldn't be what it was.

I don't want to go too far down the path of describing Jean's changes in this thread. Suffice it to say, beyond the color of the characters hair, I see little resemblance.

Sorry for sidetracking the thread with my usual rubbish .

I’d love to hear what differences you’ve seen in Jean because I’ve been reading and not liking X-Men Red for numerous reasons, and Jean herself is definitely a factor but I haven’t been able to articulate why exactly.

Welcome back by the way.

[Ulfhammer]

Lots of great posts recently, so will try to give my two cents on everything :

Regarding Cyclops's Return:

I am cautiously optimistic (or more like I am happy he is coming back, scared Marvel will mess it up somehow.)

Regarding his personality :

I will be very unhappy if Marvel writes Cyclops as apologising to the X-men saying he did everything wrong. That is a big no-no to me.

That being said I would not mind at all if Cyclops moves somewhat away from the right-clops characterisation. Remember the mutants are no longer extinct and/or dying out as a species (or should not be if Marvel has any sense).

See I have always felt the circumstances somewhat justified Cyclops actions and attitude. Emergency situations for the whole species justified an emergency response. (It would have been one thing if the X-men alone were going to die, they are heroes and maybe they would all freely choose to die heroicly then commit morally questionable acts, but Scott was not just leading normal X-men who chose to be super-heroes. He was also leading regular joe & jane mutants who were facing clear and present danger. How many of them would choose to die? and how many would prefer Scott take out those threats to mutant kind fast.

(Side Note: This was the major problem with Storm's Leadership...No, it was major problem with how Marvel wrote Storm's leadership in IvX [Not going to blame Storm for that debacle]. Diplomacy, comprimise etc is great but if people are literally dying while you negotiate for months then bring out the heavy artillarly. I can not imagine any incarnation of Storm who heard a person was going to die in a week settle for months long negotiations)

Getting back on track, now that the situation is no longer species-threatening, I would believe that Cyclops would also revert to a far less extreme approach. He would likely apologise for some of his acts (Scott is heavy into self-blame in all incarnations) but I don't think he should take all of it or even most. (I could accept Scott taking the blame because of his self-blaming tendancies but the narrative making it clear it was mostly the other's fault and Scott was just being his self blaming self).

I don't think he should revert back to the 'Boyscout' era but neither should he remain in 'RightClops' era. Rather a middle ground of the two would reflect his character growth and acceptance of his actions.

Regarding Tyke :

I have had problems with Tyke. I could buy him hating his older self at the start but he should have had a talk and investigated (he had plenty of chances when his team was with Scott's X-men) and realised things were far more complex. It felt like he skipped that part.

I did love Tyke when he was on his space adventure with Corsair. That was fantastic and I wish it had continued.

I hated him when IvX etc had him hating Cyclops again (Hitler-Clops seriously?) especially when DoX made it clear he was present when Cyclops 'died' and knew what happened.

I didn't mind Tyke loosing his leadership role but it was never addressed. A prime oppertunity for growth and it was skipped. Combine that with being simply in-effectual for the rest of the series and this was an era I disliked.

Regarding Emma and Jean :

Oh..boy. As a fan of both characters and pairings, I tend to feel annoyed and upset when people bash either one especially in favour of the other.

In all honesty I don't mind if Scott ends up with either one or goes solo with three very important requirements. Those is no bashing of previous relationships, previous relationships being treated with respect and what ever relationship (or non-relationship) he does currently have being WELL WRITTEN!

I have a similar requirement for Jean and/or Emma moving on. Good writing and no bashing on Scott and their relationship with Scott being treated with respect.

That being said I will say that I really dislike how Morrison handled the break up of Scott and Jean (No longer in love with your High-school romance? Talk about insulting the relationship. They'd been married for more then a decade counting future time raising Nate) as well as the start of Emma and Scott (Scott going to Emma for Sex-Therapy, Good God.). Whedon really saved the Scott/Emma pariing for me.

Regarding Emma's Actions in IvX :

I think Scott would be understanding of Emma's actions. Not saying he would be happy or have done the same but he would be understanding. I do think he would want her to atone to some degree.

Regarding Jean's Playing Cupid :

I really really hope that scene where Jean 'pushed' Scott into making out with Emma on her own grave is address at some point. Fans need a bit of reminding as they keep trying to bash our boy with it. (and in all honesty so does the scene where Cable told Scott not to let the Avengers take Hope for the same reasons).

One question (what if) for all of you :

Let's say Jean lived and her and Scott did not break up. House of M still happened, Mutant nearly extinct etc...

Do you think Scott would still do the same 'questionable' actions such as X-Force etc? Do you think Jean would have turned a bit more militant too?

I'll start off a little, while I don't think Scott would have become as militant as he was with Jean around, I do think that Jean would have become a bit more militant then she was previously characterised along with Scott.

Finally a Fanfic Endorsement:

There's a new Fanfic on FF dot net where Scott (after dying in DoX) time travels back to the middle of the Krakoa incident where he is recruting Storm, Logan and the rest. 6 chapters so far and it is really good.

The Tapestry of Scott Summers

Excellent post. I have to say I agree with nearly everything you've written here, especially on Scott's personality and Tyke.

As for your question on what the impact of Jean surviving Planet X might have been on Scott, I created a thread last year that dealt with basically that exact question. I think a number of the responses were excellent. If you want to check that out it's here.

I won't preempt that entire thread by providing a long winded answer. Suffice it to say the general consensus was Scott would have been less extreme and had more support both internally and externally. That said, let's not underestimate Jean's capability for extreme actions of her own. See her stand off with the U-Men in NXM. Even her meeting with Scott and Warren at Waldorf in X-Factor #1 is quite revealing I think.

[Ulfhammer]

Can't read a thing. Too small. Here's a link to a review with a bigger scan.

http://https://comicsverse.com/astonishing-x-men-15-review/

Alright, having read the scene, at least Rosenberg gets the whole "Cyclops is good at getting people to do things they don't want to do" thingy. There just might be hope.

Wow. I'm shocked to be reading this in a Marvel comic. This is such a clear break from the anti-Cyclops narrative they have been running for that last three or four years. I can't tell you how happy it makes me to read that at least someone (besides Emma & Illyana) understood what Scott was doing, and why.

This is a huge heel turn by Marvel. Clearly they've decided to begin rehabilitating his reputation. It will take time to undo the damage they've done, but I'm much more enthusiastic about Scott's return. It appears they may be bringing him back for more than just a whipping boy.

[Ulfhammer]

I’d love to hear what differences you’ve seen in Jean because I’ve been reading and not liking X-Men Red for numerous reasons, and Jean herself is definitely a factor but I haven’t been able to articulate why exactly.

Welcome back by the way.

It's harder than it sounds... There are a lot of intangibles to Jean's characterization that are hard to describe and really just come out in specific situations. Here's goes:

1. Jean's respect for others freedom of thought and freedom of privacy. Back in the old days it was common for Jean to explain how careful she was about both reading and influencing other. She has traditionally felt that was a misuse of her power, an attitude she likely learned from Charles, but one she embraced on her own terms in adulthood. The new Jean is flagrant in reading and influencing others, without a second thought. I suspect this is a bleed over from Jeen. This really bothers me though, not because her attitude has so clearly changed, but because there's no reason given for why it would. I consider this a fundamental element of her characterization.

2. Jean's temper. Jean has always had a serious temper to contend with. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I've seen next to no evidence the new Jean has it. She always seems a little too calm and collected, even in dire situations. I'm not suggesting she would freak out before (although honestly that did happen) but now she seems too level headed.

3. Jean's emotional state. You could always count on Jean to emotionally read her teammates and provide the right kind of support. It's really the idea of emotional labor. It was a very important and central element of her character and I've seen very little of this at all from her.

I'd say those are the biggest one. It's not a complete list, mostly because the rest are likely personal touchstones for me with the character that wouldn't mean much to others.

How is this relevant to the Cyclops thread you ask? Well, my personal theory is that Marvel has been modelling Jean after rightclops. He was and remains a popular character, with much of that due to his post Morrison characterization. Maybe Marvel thinks that they can duplicate their success with Scott, through Jean as a model of an effective leader.

Let's review. I'm seeing a Jean that is more about outcomes than individuals, one who is cool and controlled and one who is willing to cross lines she's wouldn't have dreamed of before. Sound like anyone we know?