Laura: X-23 Appreciation 2018

[Ambaryerno]

Honestly that’s the problem with taking evidence of her being bisexual from the most recent series, it literally comes out of left field with no real rhyme or reason behind it. With Prodigy, while there wasn’t a lead up to it, you could see it making sense given his powers but with Nico, it’s basically at at worst synergy and at best a retcon for retcons sake.

This development for Laura would be no less out of left field. People cite Mercury or Jubilee, but there’s honestly nothing actually behind it other than one maybe if you squint hug, and another that is because vampires. Unlike the long history of subtext with Kitty. Only characters Laura has had any development with has been Hellion and O5 Cyke (Warren ALSO coming out of left without build-up).

In the dissembled teaser they had her in her X-23 costume as opposed to her Red costume, so maybe by then Red and the solo run will finally be on the same page.

It will be interesting to see Kelly and Rosen get their hands on Laura again. Maybe Laura will have a decent sized role in the story.

Yeah, I hope so. It’ll be nice to see her actually have an important role in an event (she just kinda showed up on AA). And also to see all the books caught up with one another. Getting tired of not being able to tell when the books are set compared to one another.

[Ambaryerno]

Honestly that’s the problem with taking evidence of her being bisexual from the most recent series, it literally comes out of left field with no real rhyme or reason behind it. With Prodigy, while there wasn’t a lead up to it, you could see it making sense given his powers but with Nico, it’s basically at at worst synergy and at best a retcon for retcons sake.

This development for Laura would be no less out of left field. People cite Mercury or Jubilee, but there’s honestly nothing actually behind it other than one maybe if you squint hug, and another that is because vampires. Unlike the long history of subtext with Kitty. Only characters Laura has had any development with has been Hellion and O5 Cyke (Warren ALSO coming out of left without build-up).

In the dissembled teaser they had her in her X-23 costume as opposed to her Red costume, so maybe by then Red and the solo run will finally be on the same page.

It will be interesting to see Kelly and Rosen get their hands on Laura again. Maybe Laura will have a decent sized role in the story.

Yeah, I hope so. It’ll be nice to see her actually have an important role in an event (she just kinda showed up on AA). And also to see all the books caught up with one another. Getting tired of not being able to tell when the books are set compared to one another.

[WebLurker]

The thing is she still it's a clone kind of, unless they retcon her to the result of a one night stand , she was still built using cloning tech on wepond x dna now just has Sarah's DNA to some extent. So it shouldn't have any impact on tamaki story, also she already saw both as her parents so there shouldn't be any big status quo change.

That's honestly how I've been seeing it ("still a clone because that was the tech and process used to make her"). Only changes I can see overall are that the DNA splicing theory has been essentially canonized. I could also see them doing something with Laura know knowing that she actually has a genetic link to her mom, but that seems to be more a personal stake for the character than a game changer, if that makes any sense.

I just thought this migh have been done to explain why she wont get hot claws and open the door to a secondary mutation(please be a ranged attack)

What?

Honestly that’s the problem with taking evidence of her being bisexual from the most recent series, it literally comes out of left field with no real rhyme or reason behind it. With Prodigy, while there wasn’t a lead up to it, you could see it making sense given his powers but with Nico, it’s basically at at worst synergy and at best a retcon for retcons sake.

Well, technically, the character being written bisexual doesn't outright contradict the older series (although there's nothing to support it either). The idea of her and Karolina is what really seems odd, since it actually does contradict material in the series proper. It is what it is, but I really wish I knew what the writers thought processes where on these twists, since I'm not seeing any logic to them myself.

[Ambaryerno]

I sent a tweet to JDW as an early X-Men Monday thing to see what his opinion on the matter is, since so far I haven't seen him weigh in at all.

The more I look at Kyle's tweet, the more I think it connects to the Dave Sim page he posted earlier in the week criticizing publishers ignoring creator wishes. Just the whole, "This is the TRUE story" bit suggests he's trying to invalidate what Marvel is doing with the character and establish himself as the only authority.

Not seriously expecting JDW to respond about this, because if Kyle really is trying to stage a coup (so to speak) this could get ugly in a hurry (well, uglier. it's already starting to within the base).

[Beaubier]

Eh, I doubt it’d be anything so insidious. But I don’t see how it matters anyway. Kyle hasn’t wrote an X-book for a long time, and he hasn’t wrote Laura even longer than that as far as I’m aware. He doesn’t have any actual say on Laura’s development. If he did, she’d never have become Wolverine and the SK retcon would’ve never happened.

Honestly, at the end of the day.. I do sympathize with creators as their characters are further developed by other writers and their fictional lives grow entirely in a different direction than they would have wanted or imagined. But that’s the nature of the Big 2. At some point the creator no longer gets any say.

I’m not a big fan of the SK retcon, but it’s a piece of canon I can begrudgingly accept.

Edit: saw a tweet where someone asked Taylor about the SK retcon and if this makes Laura effectively Logan and Sarah’s daughter instead of a clone. Tom Taylor confirmed on Twitter :

“She's still a clone. She just has some of Sarah's material in her as well.”

So I guess that puts to bed that part of the question.

[Ambaryerno]

Eh, I doubt it’d be anything so insidious. But I don’t see how it matters anyway. Kyle hasn’t wrote an X-book for a long time, and he hasn’t wrote Laura even longer than that as far as I’m aware. He doesn’t have any actual say on Laura’s development. If he did, she’d never have become Wolverine and the SK retcon would’ve never happened.

Honestly, at the end of the day.. I do sympathize with creators as their characters are further developed by other writers and their fictional lives grow entirely in a different direction than they would have wanted or imagined. But that’s the nature of the Big 2. At some point the creator no longer gets any say.

I’m not a big fan of the SK retcon, but it’s a piece of canon I can begrudgingly accept.

Edit: saw a tweet where someone asked Taylor about the SK retcon and if this makes Laura effectively Logan and Sarah’s daughter instead of a clone. Tom Taylor confirmed on Twitter :

“She's still a clone. She just has some of Sarah's material in her as well.”

So I guess that puts to bed that part of the question.

The whole situation still stinks. The worst part is that he's now set up a potentially toxic situation within the fanbase. If you don't embrace it you're liable to be labeled a homophobe, if you do you're likely to be attacked for that. That it's Kyle himself saying it already has others claiming "Well he's the creator so he's the one and only authority" despite the points you made that he hasn't written her in a decade, and isn't even writing the X-Men. I've seen some people say they flat-out don't care about any of the surrounding issues at all just so long as it means another LGBT in comics period.

Anyway, something from X-23 #4:

[Triniking1234]

Is Craig Kyle really going around saying he created Laura when she's a cartoon immigrant like Harley Quinn and Firestar? Bruce Timm still gets credit for Harley and not whoever brought her over in that No Man's Land book.

Also if they wanted to establish Laura as bi they should've pulled the trigger when Finesse was around and before she fell into the hands of Dennis the Hopeless and Bendis.

[Ambaryerno]

Is Craig Kyle really going around saying he created Laura when she's a cartoon immigrant like Harley Quinn and Firestar? Bruce Timm still gets credit for Harley and not whoever brought her over in that No Man's Land book.

Also if they wanted to establish Laura as bi they should've pulled the trigger when Finesse was around and before she fell into the hands of Dennis the Hopeless and Bendis.

Kyle and Yost created her for X-Men Evolution, where she appeared first, so he does have (co-)creator credit (and sorry, XCE, but Yost IS credited as a creator as well). The problem is, as Beau pointed out, that Kyle and Yost haven't written her for the better part of a decade, and neither are even currently attached to the X-Office. Furthermore, they may have created her, but they created her FOR Marvel, so they don't even own the rights to her (Marvel does). Kyle frankly doesn't have any actual authority to do anything with her, because it all depends on what Marvel Editorial wants to do.

Which is why I kind of hope this blows over, more than anything to show that Kyle can't leverage his creator status like this on a character he never owned in the first place.

Your other point is exactly part of the problem with this "revelation." There's frankly no evidence for it at all. All of Laura's relationships with other women have been written as platonic, familial, or antagonistic. The two commonly cited examples for subtext (Cessily at the end of Mercury Falling and Jubilee when Laura tempts her with her blood) are both always taken out of context. Subtext that falls apart when viewed in context is NOT subtext. There's literally nothing within the text to support his follow-up assertion that he thought of it as the natural progression of her character (especially because KYLE HIMSELF was a part of developing her relationship with Hellion).

It would be a complete retcon of how she's been written for 15 years. She doesn't even have the benefit of Claremontian subtext, or even long-standing fandom in-jokes as was the case with Iceman (and even THAT ended up pretty harshly dividing the fanbase).

[Havok83]

Is Craig Kyle really going around saying he created Laura when she's a cartoon immigrant like Harley Quinn and Firestar? Bruce Timm still gets credit for Harley and not whoever brought her over in that No Man's Land book.

Also if they wanted to establish Laura as bi they should've pulled the trigger when Finesse was around and before she fell into the hands of Dennis the Hopeless and Bendis.

He DID create her. He worked on that cartoon episode where she debuted

[TheCape]

I'm neutral in this whole issue, but to be honest i'm always doutbfull when people use subtext as prove of something, is kind of a double edge sword.

[Triniking1234]

He DID create her. He worked on that cartoon episode where she debuted

Yeah that was my bad. I thought it was Yost alone for the cartoon and both of them for the comic.

[RoamingGnome8]

I'm neutral in this whole issue, but to be honest i'm always doutbfull when people use subtext as prove of something, is kind of a double edge sword.

I'm kind of the same- just kinda neutral about it.

I agree with others than while you can argue there's some subtext, it's in rather tiny amounts. I think if Kyle wanted to tell this story, he should have included more into his actual work with Laura.

I don't care for her current relationship with Teen Warren though, so it wouldn't really bother me if they did represent her as bi or gay.

Hellion has been a dead relationship since 2011, and while yes there might be potential in some writer bringing it back- I don't think Julian's popular enough with writers for that to happen. It's sad because I did like KYOST's representation of it, but I just don't see it happening with current Marvel. (If it's any consolation, I don't think she'd be allowed to be in a relationship with Cessily either, since Cess is not considered an A-list character either.)

Jubilee or someone else is at least a better option than Teen Angel, Teen Cyclops (Laura really doesn't need to be added to the Scott/Jean/Wolverine/Emma/BloodStorm Love Pentagon), or anyone else Marvel will dump her with to drum up controversy...

[Ambaryerno]

Incidentally, sales numbers are in.

X-23 #1 did about 93,000, leading all X-books for the month. Issue 2 dropped to 36,000, so it looks like we can expect the book to do numbers comparable to All-New Wolverine.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

and #1 had like nine different variants

[Ambaryerno]

and #1 had like nine different variants

Yeah, that's why I said when we got the early results last week that issue 2 is going to be the one that's really telling.