Laura: X-23 Appreciation 2018

[Nazrel]

I am trying to catch up with Laura, I read in another thread, can you explain to me that it is that new revalation of Laura's past, that they say that they do not have too happy their fans? and where can I read this?

Thank you very much.

Don't bother reading it, here's it in it's entirety.



Do reread the first issue on Innocence Lost though, to appreciate how this doesn't work on any level.

[healed1337]

Don't bother reading it, here's it in it's entirety.



Do reread the first issue on Innocence Lost though, to appreciate how this doesn't work on any level.

I don't know, there's actually quite a bit of wiggle room left in Innocence Lost 1. One, Sarah Kinney even explained that Laura would technically be more of a genetic twin than a clone when she first proposed the idea. Two, her first 22 attempts at a female clone failed (without an official explanation of how the 23rd worked). Three, it would explain why Laura looks like her mother.

[Nazrel]

I don't know, there's actually quite a bit of wiggle room left in Innocence Lost 1. One, Sarah Kinney even explained that Laura would technically be more of a genetic twin than a clone when she first proposed the idea. Two, her first 22 attempts at a female clone failed (without an official explanation of how the 23rd worked). Three, it would explain why Laura looks like her mother.

No, there really isn't much. It was a very completely written story.

The word twin has meaning.

She was a genetic twin because they removed the Y chromosome, and duplicated the existing X one. They did this to get around the genetic damage without contaminating it with foreign DNA, having any substantive quality of foreign DNA defeats the entire point of making her female in the first place, especially given Sutter and Rices clear bias towards male. See page 14.

The last point is a miniscule plot hole that could be hand waved with a "the blue eye color was on the y chromosome", which works so long as you don't pedantically get into real life scientific rules of genetic inheritance (Which I believe are actually a simplification) that were never referenced in the text, in a universe where "Portals in eyes to a universe of pure kinetic energy" is a genetic trait.

This is swallowing a spider to catch a fly, but skipping straight to the horse.

[Omegarogue]

Don't bother reading it, here's it in it's entirety.



Do reread the first issue on Innocence Lost though, to appreciate how this doesn't work on any level.

Thanks, I do not know if it's nice or not, it seems too far-fetched for me, I always got the idea of X23 as a logan clone.

Although on the other hand, I always ask if it is a clone, no matter how feminine, it should not be similar to Logan, and Logan in canon is basically ugly XD, and Laura has always portrayed us as a very beautiful girl, Factions do not look (thankfully) or siqueira the color of eye, and tambiin fortunately does not suffer from excess body hair XD. and has a more decent hair.

I always said good and we seem physically (luckily for Laura) for the magic of the comics, but now add this is not completely a clone, because it is a daughter of the scientist and has much and she charges a little more of sense what of the physical aspect.

:::::::::::::::::::

The same in history is still a very forced retcon, but I guess it is already part of the new canon.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

No, there really isn't much. It was a very completely written story.

The word twin has meaning.

She was a genetic twin because they removed the Y chromosome, and duplicated the existing X one. They did this to get around the genetic damage without contaminating it with foreign DNA, having any substantive quality of foreign DNA defeats the entire point of making her female in the first place, especially given Sutter and Rices clear bias towards male. See page 14.

The last point is a miniscule plot hole that could be hand waved with a "the blue eye color was on the y chromosome", which works so long as you don't pedantically get into real life scientific rules of genetic inheritance (Which I believe are actually a simplification) that were never referenced in the text, in a universe where "Portals in eyes to a universe of pure kinetic energy" is a genetic trait.

This is swallowing a spider to catch a fly, but skipping straight to the horse.

looks like it's time for this work of beauty:

[healed1337]

No, there really isn't much. It was a very completely written story.

The word twin has meaning.

She was a genetic twin because they removed the Y chromosome, and duplicated the existing X one. They did this to get around the genetic damage without contaminating it with foreign DNA, having any substantive quality of foreign DNA defeats the entire point of making her female in the first place, especially given Sutter and Rices clear bias towards male. See page 14.

The last point is a miniscule plot hole that could be hand waved with a "the blue eye color was on the y chromosome", which works so long as you don't pedantically get into real life scientific rules of genetic inheritance (Which I believe are actually a simplification) that were never referenced in the text, in a universe where "Portals in eyes to a universe of pure kinetic energy" is a genetic trait.

This is swallowing a spider to catch a fly, but skipping straight to the horse.

Problem with merely duplicating the X-gene. It would basically be the same as having just one X chromosome. That causes Turner syndrome, with possible side-effects like heart defects (a congested aorta is the most common defect of this syndrome), diabetes, neck deformations, hormonal dysfunction, bone defects in the hands and feet, eyesight problems, oddly shaped kidneys and others. At the very least, they'd need to replace the damaged Y chromosome with something else.

Simple answer, one of Sarah Kinney's X chromosomes, and other bits to patch other damaged spots in Logan's DNA.

And it's not a minor plot hole when Laura's resemblance to Sarah isn't just in her eyes, but her entire face. It's also worth noting that as far as they know, the gene that causes green eyes is actually dominant over the gene that causes blue. The only way to have blue eyes if all of your eye colour genes say they should be blue. Here's an article that expands on that.
https://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask59

[Havok83]

The issue featured an AU Laura who was Wolverine. Which then happened in 616 in 2015. Emma Phoenix likewise later happened in 616, in AVX in 2012.

Emma was already Phoenix in 2005's Endsong

[Ambaryerno]

Problem with merely duplicating the X-gene. It would basically be the same as having just one X chromosome. That causes Turner syndrome, with possible side-effects like heart defects (a congested aorta is the most common defect of this syndrome), diabetes, neck deformations, hormonal dysfunction, bone defects in the hands and feet, eyesight problems, oddly shaped kidneys and others. At the very least, they'd need to replace the damaged Y chromosome with something else.

Simple answer, one of Sarah Kinney's X chromosomes, and other bits to patch other damaged spots in Logan's DNA.

And it's not a minor plot hole when Laura's resemblance to Sarah isn't just in her eyes, but her entire face. It's also worth noting that as far as they know, the gene that causes green eyes is actually dominant over the gene that causes blue. The only way to have blue eyes if all of your eye colour genes say they should be blue. Here's an article that expands on that.
https://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask59

"But but but...comics!"

[Dthirds3]

Problem with merely duplicating the X-gene. It would basically be the same as having just one X chromosome. That causes Turner syndrome, with possible side-effects like heart defects (a congested aorta is the most common defect of this syndrome), diabetes, neck deformations, hormonal dysfunction, bone defects in the hands and feet, eyesight problems, oddly shaped kidneys and others. At the very least, they'd need to replace the damaged Y chromosome with something else.

Simple answer, one of Sarah Kinney's X chromosomes, and other bits to patch other damaged spots in Logan's DNA.

And it's not a minor plot hole when Laura's resemblance to Sarah isn't just in her eyes, but her entire face. It's also worth noting that as far as they know, the gene that causes green eyes is actually dominant over the gene that causes blue. The only way to have blue eyes if all of your eye colour genes say they should be blue. Here's an article that expands on that.
https://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask59

And heard a articles done by a somone with a degree in the field expanding on all the possibility to why she has Sarah DNA
http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com...clone-or-what/

[Ambaryerno]

And heard a articles done by a somone with a degree in the field expanding on all the possibility to why she has Sarah DNA
http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com...clone-or-what/

Such a great article, too. Very detailed.

[Nazrel]

Problem with merely duplicating the X-gene. It would basically be the same as having just one X chromosome. That causes Turner syndrome, with possible side-effects like heart defects (a congested aorta is the most common defect of this syndrome), diabetes, neck deformations, hormonal dysfunction, bone defects in the hands and feet, eyesight problems, oddly shaped kidneys and others. At the very least, they'd need to replace the damaged Y chromosome with something else.

Simple answer, one of Sarah Kinney's X chromosomes, and other bits to patch other damaged spots in Logan's DNA.

And it's not a minor plot hole when Laura's resemblance to Sarah isn't just in her eyes, but her entire face. It's also worth noting that as far as they know, the gene that causes green eyes is actually dominant over the gene that causes blue. The only way to have blue eyes if all of your eye colour genes say they should be blue. Here's an article that expands on that.
https://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask59

Healing factors exist in clear defiance of both the laws of conservation of matter and energy; gamma radiation will kill you, and not turn you into an unstoppable rage monster (well manifestation of ones own personal hang ups), ditto for cosmic rays. Also Colleen Wings natural vibrantly red hair is genetically impossible. Let me continue along this line after I CC Ambaryerno.

"But but but...comics!"

You say that like looking at this universe with a critical scientific eye won't cause it to immediately unravel.

It's not "But but but...comics!" it's "But but but...fiction!" it's "But,but,but... clearly at odds with essential established plot elements and motivations.".

Fiction does not adhere to rules of the real world, not even fiction ostensibly taking place in the "real world", but it needs to make sense within it's own establish facts and logic.

A Text need to only to make sense within itself, real world science only matters in so far as it is referenced.

To repeat myself, altering her DNA defeats the point of duplicating her X chromosome, which was explicitly stated to be what was being done; it defeats the point of her being female, as if they were just going to alter her DNA then why not just make it male? It would be more inline with what Sutter and Rice wanted. See page 14.

This is also at odds with the level to which the reconstruction was taking place, see pages 11, and 12.

To quote The Maker (or paraphrase him) "The laws of this universe are so much more fantastical then my own!"

[Ambaryerno]

Laura in Uncanny #1. I guess Maddrox dupes don't fall under her "No Kill" policy.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

Problem with merely duplicating the X-gene. It would basically be the same as having just one X chromosome. That causes Turner syndrome, with possible side-effects like heart defects (a congested aorta is the most common defect of this syndrome), diabetes, neck deformations, hormonal dysfunction, bone defects in the hands and feet, eyesight problems, oddly shaped kidneys and others. At the very least, they'd need to replace the damaged Y chromosome with something else.

Simple answer, one of Sarah Kinney's X chromosomes, and other bits to patch other damaged spots in Logan's DNA.

And it's not a minor plot hole when Laura's resemblance to Sarah isn't just in her eyes, but her entire face. It's also worth noting that as far as they know, the gene that causes green eyes is actually dominant over the gene that causes blue. The only way to have blue eyes if all of your eye colour genes say they should be blue. Here's an article that expands on that.
https://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask59

I'm fairly certain that two blue eyed people CAN have a green eyed baby but it's a miniscule chance.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

Laura in Uncanny #1. I guess Maddrox dupes don't fall under her "No Kill" policy.

That makes sense, since they just get reabsorbed, but I feel like the return to the X-23 moniker might signal a return to a more violent approach as well.

[healed1337]

Healing factors exist in clear defiance of both the laws of conservation of matter and energy; gamma radiation will kill you, and not turn you into an unstoppable rage monster (well manifestation of ones own personal hang ups), ditto for cosmic rays. Also Colleen Wings natural vibrantly red hair is genetically impossible. Let me continue along this line after I CC Ambaryerno.

...

To repeat myself, altering her DNA defeats the point of duplicating her X chromosome, which was explicitly stated to be what was being done; it defeats the point of her being female, as if they were just going to alter her DNA then why not just make it male? It would be more inline with what Sutter and Rice wanted. See page 14.

This is also at odds with the level to which the reconstruction was taking place, see pages 11, and 12.

It's true that the Marvel Universe has very different physics from our own universe. Yet Innocence Lost made a point of at least trying to apply real world genetic studies into its plot on a basic level. They used scientific terminology to describe different sequences within the DNA. And like page 12 and 13 stated, they realized there came a point where reconstructing the DNA wasn't even resulting in anything human. That's enough to apply at least some real world science to the debate. That's enough to use science to make sense of things that might not quite add up in the story at face value. Such things like why Laura's hair is a different colour than Logan's for example. Well, at least when she's coloured properly. We all know how often her eyes are improperly coloured, and that sometimes she's given brown hair. I'm sure we agree to suspend disbelief on the X gene, Colleen Wing's hair and other comic book physics that obviously don't apply.

It's also clear that there were multiple failed female clone attempts, of which the first was attempted after Sarah explained the prospect of duplicating the X gene. For all we know, her computer program even listed Turner syndrome and other potential genetic disorders as a reason why some of those attempts weren't viable. After all, the facility wouldn't want deformities and disabilities to get in the way of having their perfect assassin. Since neither Zander Rice nor Martin Sutter were ever said to be genetic experts, there's no reason to assume they'd notice the difference. There is no specific explanation whatsoever as to what she changed to make X-23 successful. Hence, the wiggle room for a minor retcon. And it's why there's been speculation that Sarah used some of her DNA within X-23's fandom for years now.

Even if there wasn't wiggle room though, this retcon doesn't really bother me. The vast majority of Laura's DNA is still Logan's either way, and it doesn't change who she is, what she's been through or how far she's come since escaping the facility. It's far from the "Gwen Stacy slept with Normon Osborn" retcon, or the "Wolverine is a lupine, not a mutant" thing that pretty much everyone's ignored since, and for good reason on both fronts.

I'm fairly certain that two blue eyed people CAN have a green eyed baby but it's a miniscule chance.

You're right, it is possible, but extremely rare. There are generally four genes that dictate eye colour, and the vast majority of people with blue eyes have nothing but the blue gene. Even one green gene is enough to make someone's eyes green. And brown is even more dominant than green. It's not too unusual for certain traits to skip a generation though. But there's also a difference between naturally bred offspring and being created in a lab, originally intended to be a clone. That alone makes it clear that Laura's green eyes didn't come from Logan. Either way, it still doesn't explain why Laura's face looks like Sarah's as well, or why she's got black hair instead of brown.