Laura: X-23 Appreciation 2018

[Shampoozie]

Laura in Uncanny #1. I guess Maddrox dupes don't fall under her "No Kill" policy.

Lol, I wonder how many she will gut?

[Shampoozie]

That makes sense, since they just get reabsorbed, but I feel like the return to the X-23 moniker might signal a return to a more violent approach as well.

Hope so, haven't seen Laura really cut loose in a while

[Gylfie]

I read X-23 #3. IMO it was a good issue! I like the story and the art is really good!

[Ambaryerno]

I read X-23 #3. IMO it was a good issue! I like the story and the art is really good!

Agreed.

spoilers:

But ugh. Warren. This would have been a perfect opportunity to reintroduce Hellion, and give a nod to Mercury falling.

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[Gambit, King of Thieves]

how did you read it at 1:48 pacific time

I'm making a run to the comic shop during my study hall in just about two hours.

[Anduinel]

Agreed.

spoilers:

But ugh. Warren. This would have been a perfect opportunity to reintroduce Hellion, and give a nod to Mercury falling.

end of spoilers

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On the plus side, it does seem to confirm that they're not an item anymore.

end of spoilers

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

Hope so, haven't seen Laura really cut loose in a while

...has it really been since X-Force?

[MarvelMaster616]

I read X-23 #3. IMO it was a good issue! I like the story and the art is really good!

I agree. This had Laura on the warpath, which is where she's often at her best. I also like that it teased her reason for taking the mantle, X-23, again. I hope we learn more about that decision in the coming issues.

And Gabby is adorable, even when she's kidnapped.

[Ambaryerno]

spoilers:

On the plus side, it does seem to confirm that they're not an item anymore.

end of spoilers

True.

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And if all Laura needed was a flying taxi to chase the Cuckoos down Warren is the more practical choice.

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[Gambit, King of Thieves]

True.

spoilers:

And if all Laura needed was a flying taxi to chase the Cuckoos down Warren is the more practical choice.

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Although his appearance seems to indicate that this is actually taking place BEFORE Extermination. Also, why does Laura have Moon Knight's number?

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[Shampoozie]

Just read issue 3. It was pretty awesome and leaves me wanting more. I really wish each one was longer.

[Gunther]

I was impressed by it as well. I do wonder if Red will ever catch up and we have X-23 in Red.

[Nazrel]

Even if there wasn't wiggle room though, this retcon doesn't really bother me. The vast majority of Laura's DNA is still Logan's either way, and it doesn't change who she is, what she's been through or how far she's come since escaping the facility. It's far from the "Gwen Stacy slept with Normon Osborn" retcon, or the "Wolverine is a lupine, not a mutant" thing that pretty much everyone's ignored since, and for good reason on both fronts.

If that your position fine; that is your prerogative.

Also what Stark said implied 50/50, while that could be a misreading or a hyperbole, you're only assuming the vast majority of Laura's DNA is still Logan's, because that would only make sense; which I have learned is a dangerous assumption to make.

It's true that the Marvel Universe has very different physics from our own universe. Yet Innocence Lost made a point of at least trying to apply real world genetic studies into its plot on a basic level. They used scientific terminology to describe different sequences within the DNA. And like page 12 and 13 stated, they realized there came a point where reconstructing the DNA wasn't even resulting in anything human. That's enough to apply at least some real world science to the debate. That's enough to use science to make sense of things that might not quite add up in the story at face value. Such things like why Laura's hair is a different colour than Logan's for example. Well, at least when she's coloured properly. We all know how often her eyes are improperly coloured, and that sometimes she's given brown hair. I'm sure we agree to suspend disbelief on the X gene, Colleen Wing's hair and other comic book physics that obviously don't apply.

It's also clear that there were multiple failed female clone attempts, of which the first was attempted after Sarah explained the prospect of duplicating the X gene. For all we know, her computer program even listed Turner syndrome and other potential genetic disorders as a reason why some of those attempts weren't viable. After all, the facility wouldn't want deformities and disabilities to get in the way of having their perfect assassin. Since neither Zander Rice nor Martin Sutter were ever said to be genetic experts, there's no reason to assume they'd notice the difference. There is no specific explanation whatsoever as to what she changed to make X-23 successful. Hence, the wiggle room for a minor retcon. And it's why there's been speculation that Sarah used some of her DNA within X-23's fandom for years now.

As I stated, you apply the real world science only to the degree to which it is referenced; plot elements trump the science not making perfect sense.
On your average scifi show anyone who knows anything about what is being brought up will usually get a good laugh.

The solution to the "nothing human" problem was duplicating the X chromosome (assuming that's what that conversation fragment meant.); to repeat myself, inculding any substance amount of foreign DNA defeats the point of duplicating her X chromosome, which in turn defeats the point of making her female, especially since Sutter and Rice clearly wanted a male; this is the linchpin to which her origin turns on (On a conceptional level anyway.).

Duplicating the X chromosome is explicitly stated to be what was being done. If they are not duplicating the X chromosome there is no reason for her to be female. If they have no problem just splicing in foreign DNA there is no reason to duplicate the X chromosome. Do you see the issue?

Viable in this context would mean it wouldn't even create a living embryo, not that the end product would have genetic disorders, she was also the world leading researcher in mutants genetics so she would know the implications of what she was doing from the get go.

While Sutter and Rice might not know anything about genetics, the of team geneticists they have working for them would.

While I didn't want to go down the rabbit hole arguing real world genetics, but Tuner Syndrome is caused by a missing and/or incomplete X chromosome, Laura has two complete functioning X chromosomes, they just happen to be identical.

In each cell one X chromosome will be active and one will be inactive, either one from either parent, randomly in each cell, that is how it works; the difference with Laura is they would both be identical.

They actually discussed the implications of Laura having 2 identical X chromosomes in one of the interviews with the real world scientists at the end of The Unstoppable Wasp; in addition to the above, they basically said they were not entirely sure what it would actually do, but would love to study it to see.

So, no; whatever weird implications there may be of Laura having 2 identical X chromosomes, Tuner Syndrome would unlikely be one of them.

Yes, there are ways this could be made to narratively work if you carefully think about it, I outlined them in previous statements... or they could just pull an unreliable narrator, which then begs the question of "WHY?", and is it's own meta can of worms.

[WebLurker]

Don't bother reading it, here's it in it's entirety.



Do reread the first issue on Innocence Lost though, to appreciate how this doesn't work on any level.

Edit: No, nothing in the original story invalidates the retcon, anymore then anything in the original Star Trek show disproves that there had been a previous starship Enterprise.

[healed1337]

If that your position fine; that is your prerogative.

Also what Stark said implied 50/50, while that could be a misreading or a hyperbole, you're only assuming the vast majority of Laura's DNA is still Logan's, because that would only make sense; which I have learned is a dangerous assumption to make.



As I stated, you apply the real world science only to the degree to which it is referenced; plot elements trump the science not making perfect sense.
On your average scifi show anyone who knows anything about what is being brought up will usually get a good laugh.

The solution to the "nothing human" problem was duplicating the X chromosome (assuming that's what that conversation fragment meant.); to repeat myself, inculding any substance amount of foreign DNA defeats the point of duplicating her X chromosome, which in turn defeats the point of making her female, especially since Sutter and Rice clearly wanted a male; this is the linchpin to which her origin turns on (On a conceptional level anyway.).

Duplicating the X chromosome is explicitly stated to be what was being done. If they are not duplicating the X chromosome there is no reason for her to be female. If they have no problem just splicing in foreign DNA there is no reason to duplicate the X chromosome. Do you see the issue?

Viable in this context would mean it wouldn't even create a living embryo, not that the end product would have genetic disorders, she was also the world leading researcher in mutants genetics so she would know the implications of what she was doing from the get go.

While Sutter and Rice might not know anything about genetics, the of team geneticists they have working for them would.

While I didn't want to go down the rabbit hole arguing real world genetics, but Tuner Syndrome is caused by a missing and/or incomplete X chromosome, Laura has two complete functioning X chromosomes, they just happen to be identical.

In each cell one X chromosome will be active and one will be inactive, either one from either parent, randomly in each cell, that is how it works; the difference with Laura is they would both be identical.

They actually discussed the implications of Laura having 2 identical X chromosomes in one of the interviews with the real world scientists at the end of The Unstoppable Wasp; in addition to the above, they basically said they were not entirely sure what it would actually do, but would love to study it to see.

So, no; whatever weird implications there may be of Laura having 2 identical X chromosomes, Tuner Syndrome would unlikely be one of them.

Yes, there are ways this could be made to narratively work if you carefully think about it, I outlined them in previous statements... or they could just pull an unreliable narrator, which then begs the question of "WHY?", and is it's own meta can of worms.

And you are right that there's no clear indication of what two identical X chromosomes would do since there's never been any real world example, but for all we know it could have problems. And it still doesn't explain why Laura looks like her mother, beyond just her eye colour.

That said, I think we should just agree to disagree. Both of our positions rely on at least a few assumptions that aren't explicitly stated one way or another in both Innocence Lost and Adamantium Agenda. This could just keep going in circles and I'm sure we both have better things to do. I for one have a backlog of comics to catch up on, a morning swim to prepare for before my afternoon shift tomorrow and a movie night to plan with some friends I haven't seen in a while.

Also, today's X-23 3 is good. Tamaki's portrayal of Laura's personality is the best we've seen in a long time.