Laura: X-23 Appreciation 2018

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

ugh I can get X-force 17 signed by Choi AND Oback for $16.00 but I also have, like, fifty cents in my checking account right now.
I really want to just buy that entire run, but that would be inordinately expensive, so I might wait until Christmas and get the complete collections, or possibly just 17-20

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

OR I could wait a few weeks and get 17-19 signed by both for only $40, as well as an unsigned 20, because I know how to spend money reasonably.
But yeah. Legit might do that.

but of course the bloody variant is $275, and there's no way in hell I'm dropping that kind of cash.

[Nazrel]

Edit: No, nothing in the original story invalidates the retcon, anymore then anything in the original Star Trek show disproves that there had been a previous starship Enterprise.

I have no idea the rational you used to reach that conclusion, nor am I enough a Trekkie to know what would or would not disprove an existence of previous enterprise in the original Star Trek, but I am aware of a salient difference in this comparison; the enterprise thing is an irrelevant bit of trivia, where as this is the underling rational for her existence as is.

The Henry Sutter age discrepancy would be closer to that comparison in relevance, this more like them deciding Darth Vader really wasn't Lukes father after all.

OR I could wait a few weeks and get 17-19 signed by both for only $40, as well as an unsigned 20, because I know how to spend money reasonably.
But yeah. Legit might do that.

but of course the bloody variant is $275, and there's no way in hell I'm dropping that kind of cash.

I'll never understand why people just don't stick to trades.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

I have no idea the rational you used to reach that conclusion, nor am I enough a Trekkie to know what would or would not disprove an existence of previous enterprise in the original Star Trek, but I am aware of a salient difference in this comparison; the enterprise thing is an irrelevant bit of trivia, where as this is the underling rational for her existence as is.

The Henry Sutter age discrepancy would be closer to that comparison in relevance, this more like them deciding Darth Vader really wasn't Lukes father after all.



I'll never understand why people just don't stick to trades.

Trades can't lie flat. The art gets all distorted in the middle. IMO, it's just not the same reading experience, although trades are still good.
I'm not quite sure why, but the actual issues are just... different somehow.

[WebLurker]

I have no idea the rational you used to reach that conclusion, nor am I enough a Trekkie to know what would or would not disprove an existence of previous enterprise in the original Star Trek, but I am aware of a salient difference in this comparison; the enterprise thing is an irrelevant bit of trivia, where as this is the underling rational for her existence as is.

The Henry Sutter age discrepancy would be closer to that comparison in relevance, this more like them deciding Darth Vader really wasn't Lukes father after all.

I reached this rational, since the original story never stated how Laura's genome was created beyond the "doubling the X chromosome" process. There's nothing to say that additional DNA was spliced in Jurassic Park-style (in fact, the story makes a big deal about how the DNA sample needed to be repaired and re-built to create a functional strand for cloning). The only source to outright contradict Taylor's story is Craig Kyle's statement of his intents that the X-23 genome was only made of Wolverine DNA, but that never made it into continuity in the first place.

So, to use a Star Trek example again, as I see it, this idea that the Adamatium Agenda violates Innocence Lost holds as much water as the idea that Enterprise contradicted Mr. Spock being the first Vulcan in Starfleet (a "fact" that never existed in canon). On top of that, the reveal doesn't really change anything anyways; we always knew Laura was a modified clone in the first place and from a narrative standpoint, the important thing is that she was artificially created in a lab and dehumanized as a result. Disagree if you will, but does it at least make sense why some of us see the retcon as really changing nothing in terms of the important stuff in the character's past?

I'll never understand why people just don't stick to trades.

I do, for the most part.

[Nazrel]

I reached this rational, since the original story never stated how Laura's genome was created beyond the "doubling the X chromosome" process. There's nothing to say that additional DNA was spliced in Jurassic Park-style (in fact, the story makes a big deal about how the DNA sample needed to be repaired and re-built to create a functional strand for cloning). The only source to outright contradict Taylor's story is Craig Kyle's statement of his intents that the X-23 genome was only made of Wolverine DNA, but that never made it into continuity in the first place.

So, to use a Star Trek example again, as I see it, this idea that the Adamatium Agenda violates Innocence Lost holds as much water as the idea that Enterprise contradicted Mr. Spock being the first Vulcan in Starfleet (a "fact" that never existed in canon). On top of that, the reveal doesn't really change anything anyways; we always knew Laura was a modified clone in the first place and from a narrative standpoint, the important thing is that she was artificially created in a lab and dehumanized as a result. Disagree if you will, but does it at least make sense why some of us see the retcon as really changing nothing in terms of the important stuff in the character's past?

Why do I bother saying anything when clearly nobody is listening?

To repeat what I have already said, other then the outright definition of cloning, pages 11 and 12 clearly illustrate the level to which the reconstruction is taking place, which they were doing by mapping it to wolverines genome, and reconstructing it on it's most basic level. Lets add on Page 15 were Sutter and Rice were incised at the idea of any deviation and Sutter says "there will be no deviation from the original specimen".

The entire purpose of duplicating the X chromosome was to bypass the damage, if they had no problem just splicing in DNA it would defeat the purpose of duplicating the X chromosome and making her female in the first place.

If you don't care if doesn't strictly make sense, that is your prerogative.

[Shampoozie]

With x teams being disbanded or shifting around in the near future it would be cool if Laura could take a leadership role on a team. A new X-Force books would be right up her alley.

[Ambaryerno]

With x teams being disbanded or shifting around in the near future it would be cool if Laura could take a leadership role on a team. A new X-Force books would be right up her alley.

Agreed, she's long overdue for a leadership role of her own.

[Beaubier]

Why do I bother saying anything when clearly nobody is listening?

To repeat what I have already said, other then the outright definition of cloning, pages 11 and 12 clearly illustrate the level to which the reconstruction is taking place, which they were doing by mapping it to wolverines genome, and reconstructing it on it's most basic level. Lets add on Page 15 were Sutter and Rice were incised at the idea of any deviation and Sutter says "there will be no deviation from the original specimen".

The entire purpose of duplicating the X chromosome was to bypass the damage, if they had no problem just splicing in DNA it would defeat the purpose of duplicating the X chromosome and making her female in the first place.

If you don't care if doesn't strictly make sense, that is your prerogative.

Frankly I agree with everything you’ve said on the topic, especially about how much worse this makes Sarah appear in hindsight.

The retcon doesn’t work unless you purposely ignore key parts of that story because you like the (unnecessary) retcon. People are also pointing to how Laura was drawn similarly to Sarah, but a) All women had the same face in Innocence Lost and B) While I offhand don’t know the reason why Laura was given green eyes, Kyle has made it clear that it wasn’t because of Sarah’s genetics.

It’s fine if someone likes this turn of events but let’s not pretend it’s compatible with the original story as it was written.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

With x teams being disbanded or shifting around in the near future it would be cool if Laura could take a leadership role on a team. A new X-Force books would be right up her alley.

yes I've said this give me X-Force led by Laura.
and BRING BACK CHOI/OBACK

[The Big G]

With x teams being disbanded or shifting around in the near future it would be cool if Laura could take a leadership role on a team. A new X-Force books would be right up her alley.

A leadership role would be interesting to see (especially if was the NXM given their history) on the whole fact while not doubt she would an effective leader tactically...I just see their being so many problems with her taking on the emotional aspect of being a leader...ie her team not gelling with her

[PsychoEFrost]

A leadership role would be interesting to see (especially if was the NXM given their history) on the whole fact while not doubt she would an effective leader tactically...I just see their being so many problems with her taking on the emotional aspect of being a leader...ie her team not gelling with her

Exactly. She's an effective fighter and tactician. But leadership is more than that. The issue is that her mentor never got that memo either.

[Beaubier]

A leadership role would be interesting to see (especially if was the NXM given their history) on the whole fact while not doubt she would an effective leader tactically...I just see their being so many problems with her taking on the emotional aspect of being a leader...ie her team not gelling with her

Which would make it very interesting! I think Laura has shown she has leadership qualities, but she doesn’t have a lot of experience. Her figuring out how to make it work with a team of difficult personalities would be a great read.

[The Big G]

Which would make it very interesting! I think Laura has shown she has leadership qualities, but she doesn’t have a lot of experience. Her figuring out how to make it work with a team of difficult personalities would be a great read.

It would be a car crash waiting to happen, but damn if it wouldn't' be an entertaining

[Ambaryerno]

Which would make it very interesting! I think Laura has shown she has leadership qualities, but she doesn’t have a lot of experience. Her figuring out how to make it work with a team of difficult personalities would be a great read.

Look at how she took charge during Immune. I mean she even had Deadpool (more or less) falling in line.