Laura: X-23 Appreciation 2018

[Ambaryerno]

Technically it's not a retcon. clone is a exact genetic copy so a female clone is a oxymoron. And it's not half from each like a normal daughter would have, it's just a nice amount from Sarah. I'm going with 80/20 Logan/Sara split for her instead of the 99/1 she half before(witch would also maker her Sara's logans daughter because she's not 100 percent Logan). The revelation dosent reall change anything going on in x23, because she is still technically a both Clone and daughter at the same time now.

The most she would have had before was Sarah's mtDNA, which is probably doing GOOD to be 99/1. No canon source ever established she used her own DNA before.

This also addresses a minor plothole: It never made sense that Laura would look like Sarah. Revealing that Sarah DID use her own genetic material when creating her does a lot to explain her appearance. Frankly it also makes sense; the genetic sample was damaged, and she went with a female because the X chromosome was LESS damaged. But there was still damage that would need to be repaired. Sarah was doing this off-books, so she likely wouldn't have been able to use whatever genetic material the Facility had on-hand to fill in the gaps. Therefore she used the only other material she would have access to: her own.

[Ambaryerno]

No, it is a retcon.

They explained EXACTLY what they did; they doubled the existing X chromosome to replace the damaged Y. Neither Sutter or Rice were happy about this small change, and they quite clearly, wanted a male, so even if they make it so minor a thing as she replaced the Y chromosome with her own X, it would still be at odds with the narrative.

They dropped the Y chromosome because it was MORE damaged, not because the X wasn't damaged at all. So the X chromosomes still needed to be repaired, and that genetic material had to come from SOMEwhere.

spoilers:

I have more problems in how no scientist who has examined her in the past realized this? But with the exception of big holes in the plot have nothing against always imagined the two as father and daughter.

end of spoilers

The simplest answer is that Laura simply didn't allow them to, or no one bothered to look that closely. Or they didn't have access to both Sarah AND Logan's genetic material to make that connection. Whereas this whole thing is Sinister's entire shtick.

[Havok83]

Ugh! I dont like the retcon and dont see what purpose it serves now

[Centrions]

I'm cool with this. I mean it makes sense kind of that Sarah would've used her own DNA to fill in the gaps akin to what Luthor did for Superboy (at least in the Young Justice version of the character). And I mean it was made very apparent that Laura has both her complexion and eyes.

[Nazrel]

They dropped the Y chromosome because it was MORE damaged, not because the X wasn't damaged at all. So the X chromosomes still needed to be repaired, and that genetic material had to come from SOMEwhere.

They were attempting to recreate his exact genetic code for the purposes of creating a clone.

Now I am not exactly an expert on the sequencing of nucleotides of Deoxyribonucleic acid, but on their most basic level they're just chemicals, so you don't need to use someone elses genetic material... but this is comic book science, so if they want to sand off the edges of this narrative spanner in the works that way, re-framing it by saying she spliced in a little bit of her DNA to plug the gaps, fine (in the same way duct tape makes something "fine"); but that is not what either narrative has presented.

[Ambaryerno]

They were attempting to recreate his exact genetic code for the purposes of creating a clone.

And that's why Rice and Sutter rejected Sarah's proposal to make the female, and she had to do it off-books instead. They wanted an exact duplicate, which she was finding to be impossible because of the damage.

Now I am not exactly an expert on the sequencing of nucleotides of Deoxyribonucleic acid, but on their most basic level they're just chemicals, so you don't need to use someone elses genetic material... but this is comic book science, so if they want to sand off the edges of this narrative spanner in the works that way, re-framing it by saying she spliced in a little bit of her DNA to plug the gaps, fine (in the same way duct tape makes something "fine"); but that is not what either narrative has presented.

DNA is incredibly complex (didn't you watch the Mr. DNA scene in Jurassic Park?) so they couldn't just sequence a brand-spanking new one from scratch with a bunch of chemicals. Using a genetic sample from a donor would be a necessary shortcut to make this sort of engineering possible (which, y'know, is what geneticists ACTUALLY do today). Frankly they could have used ANYONE'S DNA to get the results they wanted, so long as she still had Logan's X-Gene and it was expressed.

[KurtW95]

What a damn joke. Taylor continues to prove he doesn’t understand the character. Hopefully this is retconned back sooner rather than later. I absolutely hate the idea of X-23 not being Logan’s clone. Logan already has kids. Being a female clone makes her unique.

[Nazrel]

DNA is incredibly complex (didn't you watch the Mr. DNA scene in Jurassic Park?) so they couldn't just sequence a brand-spanking new one from scratch with a bunch of chemicals. Using a genetic sample from a donor would be a necessary shortcut to make this sort of engineering possible (which, y'know, is what geneticists ACTUALLY do today). Frankly they could have used ANYONE'S DNA to get the results they wanted, so long as she still had Logan's X-Gene and it was expressed.

Yeah... most of comic book science is beyond our current practical ability or practical understanding of science, if not out right at odds with it. Theoretically possible is more then you normally get.

This change is at odds with the Text; which if you remember, was presented via the framing of the letter Sarah wrote to Laura, so why would she lie about her being a clone?

You'd think the fact she's actually her biological Daughter, would have been something she'd have told her.

Stop coming up with excuses, just because that moment gave you the "feels"; this is clearly at odds with the text, and the authorial intent. It's an authors job to make all of this work, not yours; you're making up your own story at this point.

[MarvelMaster616]

Adamantium Agenda #4 is out, and we finally get the big bombshells. One does indeed pertain directly to Laura.
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spoilers:

It's now canon: Laura is NOT Logan's clone...She's his daughter with Sarah Kinney.

end of spoilers

I cried a few happy tears when I read it.

I share your sentiment.

I think this change works. It effectively uncomplicates Laura's character. She doesn't have to keep being a clone/daughter. She can just be a daughter and I think that works better for her. It also gives even more weight to what happened with Innocence Lost, which already triggered plenty of tears. That's a big part of what makes Laura so great.

[Ambaryerno]

I share your sentiment.

I think this change works. It effectively uncomplicates Laura's character. She doesn't have to keep being a clone/daughter. She can just be a daughter and I think that works better for her. It also gives even more weight to what happened with Innocence Lost, which already triggered plenty of tears. That's a big part of what makes Laura so great.

Actually, I think it SHOULD at the very least complicate her self-image precisely because it's a big bombshell to reconcile. I can see a where it could instill more doubts about who she is as she tries to work through it.

[FBarnhill]

And that's why Rice and Sutter rejected Sarah's proposal to make the female, and she had to do it off-books instead. They wanted an exact duplicate, which she was finding to be impossible because of the damage.



DNA is incredibly complex (didn't you watch the Mr. DNA scene in Jurassic Park?) so they couldn't just sequence a brand-spanking new one from scratch with a bunch of chemicals. Using a genetic sample from a donor would be a necessary shortcut to make this sort of engineering possible (which, y'know, is what geneticists ACTUALLY do today). Frankly they could have used ANYONE'S DNA to get the results they wanted, so long as she still had Logan's X-Gene and it was expressed.

Never heard of it. Was it a bomb?

[Beaubier]

Yeah... most of comic book science is beyond our current practical ability or practical understanding of science, if not out right at odds with it. Theoretically possible is more then you normally get.

This change is at odds with the Text; which if you remember, was presented via the framing of the letter Sarah wrote to Laura, so why would she lie about her being a clone?

You'd think the fact she's actually her biological Daughter, would have been something she'd have told her.

Stop coming up with excuses, just because that moment gave you the "feels"; this is clearly at odds with the text, and the authorial intent. It's an authors job to make all of this work, not yours; you're making up your own story at this point.

This is exactly one of my primary issues with it. Sarah Kinney specifically explained what she did in Innocence Lost, and explained that in her letters to Laura and Logan both. She had no reason to lie. If anything she had every motive to tell them the truth, if she actually spliced her own genetic material into Laura. She would have told her. “You’re not a clone. You’re my daughter..” but she didn’t, because that’s not what she did. This is pure fanservice fanfiction level stuff, and serves no purpose but to make Laura feel better about herself and in some ways make her life easier. It also casts a shadow over Laura’s previous stories, because some of her best stories involved her struggling with her identity as a clone/genetic twin. Now we learn a lot of that was for nothing, because apparently for some nonsensical reason, Sarah Kinney lied and/or omitted the truth from Laura and Logan.

Nah. I’m not cool with this, at least not how it was presented in the story. “You’re as much Sarah as you are Logan.” I may have found it more palatable if it said that Sarah used a “little bit” to fill in the gaps but that’s not what was said.

Like I said. Fanservice fanfiction level stuff. And as Craig Kyle said, anything written that contradicts what he and Yost wrote ought to be ignored. This throws a serious wrench into the current themes and story of the current X-23 solo otherwise.

[Havok83]

What makes it worst for me is that I JUST started reading All New Wolverine and gave it such praise for the work up through Enemy of the State II. Clone identity plays heavily into the story arc of the series and I feel like this undermines that and is going to sour my reading of the second half of the series. I think this reveal makes Laura less interesting. I think I may have to stop reading ANW now and maybe come back to it later bc this retcon really bothers me. Im disappointed bc up till now Ive enjoyed Taylor's work

[Dthirds3]

Yeah... most of comic book science is beyond our current practical ability or practical understanding of science, if not out right at odds with it. Theoretically possible is more then you normally get.

This change is at odds with the Text; which if you remember, was presented via the framing of the letter Sarah wrote to Laura, so why would she lie about her being a clone?

You'd think the fact she's actually her biological Daughter, would have been something she'd have told her.

Stop coming up with excuses, just because that moment gave you the "feels"; this is clearly at odds with the text, and the authorial intent. It's an authors job to make all of this work, not yours; you're making up your own story at this point.

its not a excuse logan had blue eyes are a recessive gene, laura has green eyes thats a dominate gene. the green eyes had to come from a someone else. the chromosome change gives her a mini of 2% (with a possible increase depending on if the process of her development had any dominate genes from Sarah taking the place of any recessive genes from logan during her development in addition it was never stated if other alternation were made to her.) you cant be a clone if there is any different from the original and laura even without this change being female cant be defined as a clone. i feel like this was meant to be a entire arc in all new wolverine that fleshed out sarah character and give us more info on the facility(specally if its still around) but was added in hear. sarahs actions can be explained if she valued work more and slowly came to acknolage laura, not telling her would work if if she felt knowing this would push laura away. this needed not only setup but a arc explaining the entire process of her creation. and i think it will just have sarah having some dna not being her full mother. i need to see how this effects Tamaki work because if she wasn't informed then this is throwing a wrench in to her work.

also with her being now just one of logans kids, she was still produced as a product, the ones from red right hand have been all but retconed out, the other unmention are presumed as well, no one cares about jimmy, and daken is apperantly dying in claws 4. so shes the only one left.

[KurtW95]

Like I said. Fanservice fanfiction level stuff. And as Craig Kyle said, anything written that contradicts what he and Yost wrote ought to be ignored. This throws a serious wrench into the current themes and story of the current X-23 solo otherwise.

When did he say that? If he did, I very much hope Marvel heeds that rule. This retcon basically changes Laura from being a clone to being an IVF kid. Something not at all uncommon in the real world.