Laura: X-23 Appreciation 2018

[Ambaryerno]

Good point, lol. Nonetheless, it should be inculuded, lol.

Also... it was mature back then, but would it be if written today? I feel like maybe it woildnt.... the last ten years or so have changed...

They haven't changed THAT much. The fact that Laura's first appearance was as an underaged prostitute and virtual sex slave is STILL controversial, and uncomfortable enough of a subject Marvel still prefers to tiptoe around it rather than tackle it head-on (even though it gives her, along with Jessica Jones, added relevancy with the #MeToo movement).

[Strong Girl Daken]

That cameo is hilarious!

[Abbz_A]

They haven't changed THAT much. The fact that Laura's first appearance was as an underaged prostitute and virtual sex slave is STILL controversial, and uncomfortable enough of a subject Marvel still prefers to tiptoe around it rather than tackle it head-on (even though it gives her, along with Jessica Jones, added relevancy with the #MeToo movement).

I agree with this. Laura’s backstory is very relevant with current social climate. It should be presented n discussed, X-Men is all about social issues. So why not!?

[Jumpyshark]

I don't disagree that there could be a really important, compelling and respectful story spun out of NYX. However, I suspect that the success of Laura Kinney as a breakout character who can support ongoing series, and this is pure speculation on my part, would mean that they don't want to focus on it, lest she become defined by it. A classic example is how Hank Pym became unusable and was eventually killed off as the internet showed that panel of him hitting Jan repeatedly sans-context, which has not happened to Reed Richards or Peter Parker, who both have similar panels that could be shared, but the threat of this happening again could mean that Laura's current ongoing success precludes it, at least for now. It would potentially explain why Kiden et al are AWOL, though that could just be because she's a newer mutant who has a heavy backstory.

Just to be clear, this is in no way a value judgement of what happened to her in NYX (or diminishing the severity of domestic violence!), but just my thinking as to why they would avoid it. A simpler explanation is that Jessica Jones has explored similar themes within a more direct superhero comics context, though obviously the two backstories are not mutually exclusive or identical.

[TheCape]

They haven't changed THAT much. The fact that Laura's first appearance was as an underaged prostitute and virtual sex slave is STILL controversial, and uncomfortable enough of a subject Marvel still prefers to tiptoe around it rather than tackle it head-on (even though it gives her, along with Jessica Jones, added relevancy with the #MeToo movement).

I think that they would want to touch it less now than the made her friend of a guy that has zero problem with child prostitution in the past.

[Abbz_A]

I think that they would want to touch it less now than the made her friend of a guy that has zero problem with child prostitution in the past.

Who? Daken?

I don't disagree that there could be a really important, compelling and respectful story spun out of NYX. However, I suspect that the success of Laura Kinney as a breakout character who can support ongoing series, and this is pure speculation on my part, would mean that they don't want to focus on it, lest she become defined by it. A classic example is how Hank Pym became unusable and was eventually killed off as the internet showed that panel of him hitting Jan repeatedly sans-context, which has not happened to Reed Richards or Peter Parker, who both have similar panels that could be shared, but the threat of this happening again could mean that Laura's current ongoing success precludes it, at least for now. It would potentially explain why Kiden et al are AWOL, though that could just be because she's a newer mutant who has a heavy backstory.

Just to be clear, this is in no way a value judgement of what happened to her in NYX (or diminishing the severity of domestic violence!), but just my thinking as to why they would avoid it. A simpler explanation is that Jessica Jones has explored similar themes within a more direct superhero comics context, though obviously the two backstories are not mutually exclusive or identical.

I mean, Do u mean like her backstory would be the defining factor of her character n it will effect it long term?

[PsychoEFrost]

I have the somewhat controversial view that NYX is one of the dumbest concepts of DIAA in Marvel history. When your whole idea is "Take someone who has massively suffered mentally and emotionally... then turn it up even further", it really just feels like puppy kicking for the sake of puppy kicking. Like a "look how dark and edgy we can be!" moment, which really hurts to think about. Did they really need to run Laura through that after the nightmare she had just survived?

[Jumpyshark]

Who? Daken?
I mean, Do u mean like her backstory would be the defining factor of her character n it will effect it long term?

Yeah, I think that a one-shot or an arc could have an outsize effect on how the character is perceived generally. Such a weighty story would generate discussion, possibly getting picked up by bigger news outlets than comics/entertainment sites, and then suddenly X-23 could be synonymous with something that otherwise doesn't show up beyond a hatred of human trafficking - which is not something people need a complex backstory to understand, but does tie in to NYX for people who are aware of it.

As I said though, this is speculation. Maybe no writers want to touch it because it's so dominating a story that would demand pages or any number of other valid reasons, such as not feeling they could write such a story.

I have the somewhat controversial view that NYX is one of the dumbest concepts of DIAA in Marvel history. When your whole idea is "Take someone who has massively suffered mentally and emotionally... then turn it up even further", it really just feels like puppy kicking for the sake of puppy kicking. Like a "look how dark and edgy we can be!" moment, which really hurts to think about. Did they really need to run Laura through that after the nightmare she had just survived?

My issue with it is that Laura speaks multiple languages and is really smart so she could have easily gotten places. Even with her being emotionally adrift after escaping the Facility and still partially institutionalised, she had options available to her regarding employment and seeking help - I can't imagine she didn't know about shelters or other options for help from being a trained assassin, if nothing else.

[Abbz_A]

I have the somewhat controversial view that NYX is one of the dumbest concepts of DIAA in Marvel history. When your whole idea is "Take someone who has massively suffered mentally and emotionally... then turn it up even further", it really just feels like puppy kicking for the sake of puppy kicking. Like a "look how dark and edgy we can be!" moment, which really hurts to think about. Did they really need to run Laura through that after the nightmare she had just survived?

I see what ur saying. But, that’s what usually happens when a young girl with no home usually ends up in. Human trafficking.
So it’s kinda believable.

[PsychoEFrost]

I see what ur saying. But, that’s what usually happens when a young girl with no home usually ends up in. Human trafficking.
So it’s kinda believable.

But she was trained in multiple areas of covert operations. She wasn't as helpless as they made her out to be (helping a friend notwithstanding)

[DAHX]

I think that they would want to touch it less now than the made her friend of a guy that has zero problem with child prostitution in the past.

If you had read more about his backstory, you would know that he actually saved children from trafficking and that he himself is a victim of child abuse (suspected more... ) Just because later a writer threw a line in a Logan series, will not change his backstory. Laura and Daken can understand each other because they have similar upbringing, this was also emphasized before with more than one line.

[MaximoffTrash]

Certainly looks like a 50/50 mix so far - though the logo is clearly based only on Laura's (perhaps the text should've been the font used on the last Scarlet Witch solo?). High Evolutionary gave Wanda her powers and Sarah Kinney is Laura's mother. Who are those two merged with? At any rate, these two are the creators of Weapon Hex. And was test subject 22 Nightcrawler's fusion? It looked a bit like Nocturne from Exiles.

They got mad scientists from both sides, but the birthplace, and the arch-villain (Mephisto plus Chthon) are from Wanda's side.
The character's visual design looks more like Laura got a magical buff though.

[Beaubier]

I have the somewhat controversial view that NYX is one of the dumbest concepts of DIAA in Marvel history. When your whole idea is "Take someone who has massively suffered mentally and emotionally... then turn it up even further", it really just feels like puppy kicking for the sake of puppy kicking. Like a "look how dark and edgy we can be!" moment, which really hurts to think about. Did they really need to run Laura through that after the nightmare she had just survived?

NYX came out before any other X-23 stories in the comics, so that doesn’t really apply. Who knows how much Quesada knew about what K/Y would have planned for her stories? Laura never once talked about her past or where she was from in NYX. She was practically a blank slate. It does make sense retrospectively, given that Laura was conditioned to obey orders and was largely unable to make decisions for herself - a perfect victim for someone like Zebra Daddy to groom, and Liu addressed it nicely in her one shot. I don’t know why Quesada made the decisions he did with her, but I don’t hate it. I think some things of value have come from it, but it wasn’t because of how he wrote Laura, and more how Liu worked it in later.

What that DOES apply to is Kimura, really, as she was retconned into Laura’s past for the specific purpose of making her more miserable.

[Ambaryerno]

What that DOES apply to is Kimura, really, as she was retconned into Laura’s past for the specific purpose of making her more miserable.

People seem to forget about that. There wasn't a sign of her in Innocence Lost, and honestly, she doesn't really make a whole lot of sense in her backstory in the first place. Laura was compliant (until Liu retconned that, cheapening the significance of her sparing Henry) and the Facility already had everything they (thought) they needed to control her. They had Sarah both as leverage and as someone who Laura would listen to if she ever got contrary, and they had the Trigger Scent if she ever tried to refuse to complete an assignment. Their downfall was what they DIDN'T anticipate (or just dismissed): Sarah undermining their efforts to dehumanize her, and turning Face to set her free. I think had Rice been able to kill Sarah before Laura's rampage, she would never have escaped.

Actually, that could make for an interesting What If? What would have happened had Laura never escaped the Facility.

Anyway, Target X mostly comes across as an effort by Kyle and Yost to retcon out everything Claremont and Quesada did with her. Unfortunately in some ways it just made things worse (as I've proposed before, you could make it work narratively with NYX by having NYX set between her leaving Megan and Debbie and her encounter with Logan, but it's MUCH harder to reconcile Target X with Claremont).

[PsychoEFrost]

NYX came out before any other X-23 stories in the comics, so that doesn’t really apply. Who knows how much Quesada knew about what K/Y would have planned for her stories? Laura never once talked about her past or where she was from in NYX. She was practically a blank slate. It does make sense retrospectively, given that Laura was conditioned to obey orders and was largely unable to make decisions for herself - a perfect victim for someone like Zebra Daddy to groom, and Liu addressed it nicely in her one shot. I don’t know why Quesada made the decisions he did with her, but I don’t hate it. I think some things of value have come from it, but it wasn’t because of how he wrote Laura, and more how Liu worked it in later.

What that DOES apply to is Kimura, really, as she was retconned into Laura’s past for the specific purpose of making her more miserable.

That's fair. I didn't get into comics until fairly late, so I bought the X-23 stuff in order of events, but it never occurred to me to check the release dates. That still feels gross, but makes a little more sense.