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  1. #8626
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    First, RIP Biz.

    You can't just replace a guy like that.

    Second, Patrice O'Neal had a similar cause of death ten years ago.

    America is straight up failing it's citizens. While I don't expect us to all be immortal by now? This country could absolutely be making better strides in treating long term illness.
    Agreed 100%.

  2. #8627
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Pretty sure we spend the most money on health care than any other developed nation but have the lowest life expectancy of any developed nation.

    But with Type II diabetes... we know what causes it. We know what makes it worse. We know how to "fix" it. This one isn't hard. There is a lot of personal responsibility here. And at the same time, there is a lot of systemic things driving it (aka poverty)
    Last edited by MindofShadow; 07-18-2021 at 12:14 PM.
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  3. #8628
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Pretty sure we spend the most money on health care than any other developed nation but have the lowest life expectancy of any developed nation.

    But with Type II diabetes... we know what causes it. We know what makes it worse. We know how to "fix" it. This one isn't hard. There is a lot of personal responsibility here. And at the same time, there is a lot of systemic things driving it (aka poverty)
    Man, I'm not trying to start anything so don't take it like that's what I am doing. Just some things that need to be said.

    Trying to frame it as something that is even largely about personal responsibility?

    It is a complete scam that a lot of Americans have fallen for.

    There are plenty of heavy folks and folks who do not eat well who will never be diabetics. There is a large "Genetics..." component that no one is personally responsible for any more than folks who are genetically predisposed to developing cancer.

    Past that?

    We are living in a country where the actual amount that a regular "Working Class..." person makes has not gone up in decades.

    In that time, plenty of insurance plans have stopped covering insulin and the price of insulin has gone up be a seriously insane amount.

    Again, putting person into that kind of a corner while you even mention "Personal Responsibility..."?

    It is putting one's focus on the wrong thing.

  4. #8629
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Man, I'm not trying to start anything so don't take it like that's what I am doing. Just some things that need to be said.

    Trying to frame it as something that is even largely about personal responsibility?

    It is a complete scam that a lot of Americans have fallen for.

    There are plenty of heavy folks and folks who do not eat well who will never be diabetics. There is a large "Genetics..." component that no one is personally responsible for any more than folks who are genetically predisposed to developing cancer.

    Past that?

    We are living in a country where the actual amount that a regular "Working Class..." person makes has not gone up in decades.

    In that time, plenty of insurance plans have stopped covering insulin and the price of insulin has gone up be a seriously insane amount.

    Again, putting person into that kind of a corner while you even mention "Personal Responsibility..."?

    It is putting one's focus on the wrong thing.
    If you want to argue systemic issues leading to the ridiculous rates of DM II in black people... sure.

    If you want to argue that it isn't obesities fault... yeah, I'm not here for that one. 30% of overweight people have type II. That is a huge percentage. 80% of the people with type II are overweight.

    Just because there are unknown genetics things doesn't mean JUST NOT BEING FAT would hedge your bets dramatically.

    Ahh yes... putting hte focus on the one thing you cna control is putting your focus on the wrong thing. Instead, these people should worry about stuff they cna't directly control while their toes get cut off.

    And insulin is a late stage Type II thing. If they get to that point, they are likely already screwed.
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  5. #8630
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Individual responsibility is a nice sounding term but in practice it's almost always used by governments and corporations to shift the blame to individuals for choices they made under heavy outside influence, conveniently ignoring who created those incentives in the first place. Expecting people to simply stop eating junk food, when they are flooded with advertising meant to hook kids at a young age and healthy alternatives are difficult to find or too expensive, is just not realistic, and inevitably anyone suggesting it as a solution is less interested in finding ways to educate and inform people about how to improve their life habits and more just declaring that this is not their problem and all the fatties should either shape up or shut up. Not to mention that the junk food industry in America is so massive that if people were to just suddenly start eating healthier out of the blue, it would be such a blow to the economy that you would probably see calls from politicians to eat more fried chicken to save local communities.

  6. #8631
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    If that ever happens, we’ll see if that happens… This is a crappy topic because discussing it never goes well. I’ve had several close friends and family members affected by this and if anyone knows a good, effective way to talk about please let me know, lol

    But basically, the only ‘cure’ for type 2 diabetes is diet and exercise. Is there a genetic factor, yes. Is insulin too expensive, yes. Does diabetes care, no. There was a local millionaire, business man type here who died of diabetes. He could afford all the insulin he wanted, diabetes didn’t care. It still crystallized his blood vessels and killed him.

    Healthy foods aren’t really more expensive than junk food. I can go to Walmart, buy pound of pre cut carrots at for a dollar. A bag of chips is about 3 dollars. Some are healthy things that more expensive but there alternatives. Does junk food taste better to most people, yes. Do businesses market the heck out of junk food, yes. Does diabetes care, no. Eating better and exercising is the only way to fix it. Andy even if you are completely right about all the other factors and unfairness of them, it wonÂ’t make anyone better… :/
    Last edited by anyajenkins; 07-19-2021 at 04:06 PM.

  7. #8632
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    If that ever happens, we’ll see if that happens… This is a crappy topic because discussing it never goes well. I’ve had several close friends and family members affected by this and if anyone knows a good, effective way to talk about please let me know, lol

    But basically, the only ‘cure’ for type 2 diabetes is diet and exercise. Is there a genetic factor, yes. Is insulin too expensive, yes. Does diabetes care, no. There was a local millionaire, business man type here who died of diabetes. He could afford all the insulin he wanted, diabetes didn’t care. It still crystallized his blood vessels and killed him.

    Healthy foods aren’t really more expensive than junk food. I can go to Walmart, buy pound of pre cut carrots at for a dollar. A bag of chips is about 3 dollars. Some are healthy things that more expensive but there alternatives. Does junk food taste better to most people, yes. Do businesses market the heck out of junk food, yes. Does diabetes care, no. Eating better and exercising is the only way to fix it. Andy even if you are completely right about all the other factors and unfairness of them, it wonÂ’t make anyone better… :/
    I've seen A1C dramatically improve just by exercise (weight training) with no diet changes at all. Sometimes that is a better route to take... forcing resistance training 3-4x a week is sometimes easier than changing dietary habits in people. 2 hours of forced dedication a week is easier than 168 hours.

    My problem talking about this stuff, just like a lot of "POC issues" is that it just always goes back to worrying about G'ma on disability and food stamps and how is she gonna do it or whatever happens in the projects.... when there plenty of middle class people with enough money who are having the same issues.
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  8. #8633
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    Bassam Tariq will direct the new Blade film.

    https://gizmodo.com/mahershala-alis-...tor-1847321712

  9. #8634
    Astonishing Member CSTowle's Avatar
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    On junk food, you have a bunch of factors at play. One, we're hard-wired to crave fat and salt and sugar. And from a historical perspective it's never been easier to acquire, but our appetites are the same as they were when it was scarce or at least harder to come by.

    Then you have the profit motive. It's hard to convince people to binge on healthier (and usually less satisfying) foods than it is those tasty fatty/salty/sugary things. So it's harder to get them to buy large quantities to consume. Harder to get them to be swayed by advertising.

    Then you have things like the incentive to grow corn because of subsidies, that has us shoving High Fructose Corn Syrup into everything as a substitute for sugar and has a harder time being metabolized (not that the same quantity of cane sugar is super healthy, but every bit counts).

    Add in more options for screen-based entertainment (whether it's phones/television/video games/etc.), and less outside activity for younger folk (and older folk) and less physically demanding labor in general for adults and we're taking in a lot more calories and working off fewer than our ancestors.

    Not to mention (again, back to the profit motive) the money to be made by hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, diet fads and supplement hawkers, etc. and there's more money to be made off a pound of cure than an ounce of prevention. Add to that our natural laziness and the yumminess of those junk foods and it's no wonder we are where we are. It's danged hard to do the right thing, and outside of those who care about us there's no incentive from outside to push us there (or if there is, it's pretty rare).
    Formerly finfangfool

  10. #8635
    Astonishing Member Overhazard's Avatar
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    There's actually a book called "Salt, Sugar, Fat" about the food industry and processed foods are filled with, well, salt, sugar, and fat to keep us all addicted to them. Junk food's all over the place, fast food is sold in high school cafeterias. I started drinking carbonated water, and it actually helped me kick soda. I don't miss it. There is a ton of misinformation about food. There's this idea that store bought fruit juice is healthy, it isn't. Some people think that lunch meat is healthy when it's chock full of salt and nitrates. Fat was bad, then good, then bad again, some think Iceberg Lettuce is healthy, when it actually has very low nutritional value.

  11. #8636
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I've seen A1C dramatically improve just by exercise (weight training) with no diet changes at all. Sometimes that is a better route to take... forcing resistance training 3-4x a week is sometimes easier than changing dietary habits in people. 2 hours of forced dedication a week is easier than 168 hours.

    My problem talking about this stuff, just like a lot of "POC issues" is that it just always goes back to worrying about G'ma on disability and food stamps and how is she gonna do it or whatever happens in the projects.... when there plenty of middle class people with enough money who are having the same issues.
    That’s very good to know, thanks

  12. #8637
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    On junk food, you have a bunch of factors at play. One, we're hard-wired to crave fat and salt and sugar. And from a historical perspective it's never been easier to acquire, but our appetites are the same as they were when it was scarce or at least harder to come by.

    Then you have the profit motive. It's hard to convince people to binge on healthier (and usually less satisfying) foods than it is those tasty fatty/salty/sugary things. So it's harder to get them to buy large quantities to consume. Harder to get them to be swayed by advertising.

    Then you have things like the incentive to grow corn because of subsidies, that has us shoving High Fructose Corn Syrup into everything as a substitute for sugar and has a harder time being metabolized (not that the same quantity of cane sugar is super healthy, but every bit counts).

    Add in more options for screen-based entertainment (whether it's phones/television/video games/etc.), and less outside activity for younger folk (and older folk) and less physically demanding labor in general for adults and we're taking in a lot more calories and working off fewer than our ancestors.

    Not to mention (again, back to the profit motive) the money to be made by hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, diet fads and supplement hawkers, etc. and there's more money to be made off a pound of cure than an ounce of prevention. Add to that our natural laziness and the yumminess of those junk foods and it's no wonder we are where we are. It's danged hard to do the right thing, and outside of those who care about us there's no incentive from outside to push us there (or if there is, it's pretty rare).
    Oh definitely. It isn't easy. It is doable though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Overhazard View Post
    There's actually a book called "Salt, Sugar, Fat" about the food industry and processed foods are filled with, well, salt, sugar, and fat to keep us all addicted to them. Junk food's all over the place, fast food is sold in high school cafeterias. I started drinking carbonated water, and it actually helped me kick soda. I don't miss it. There is a ton of misinformation about food. There's this idea that store bought fruit juice is healthy, it isn't. Some people think that lunch meat is healthy when it's chock full of salt and nitrates. Fat was bad, then good, then bad again, some think Iceberg Lettuce is healthy, when it actually has very low nutritional value.
    Thing is, not even talking about being "in shape" when it comes to DMII. You don't even have to be healthy really. It is just not being obese, which cuts the risks of getting it and complications back big time.

    Most "normal" people (aka not in poverty or in the hood or trailer) know that most the shit they eat is horrible for them. They just don't care. Everyone know soda sucks, fast food sucks. They just choose not to adjust for a variety of reasons.
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  13. #8638
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I've seen A1C dramatically improve just by exercise (weight training) with no diet changes at all. Sometimes that is a better route to take... forcing resistance training 3-4x a week is sometimes easier than changing dietary habits in people. 2 hours of forced dedication a week is easier than 168 hours.

    My problem talking about this stuff, just like a lot of "POC issues" is that it just always goes back to worrying about G'ma on disability and food stamps and how is she gonna do it or whatever happens in the projects.... when there plenty of middle class people with enough money who are having the same issues.
    Interesting. I've always heard if you regularly exercise you can eat what you want. I never gave that too much credence cause I felt regular exercise can depend, a 20 minute walk a day doesn't mean you can mainline a case of beer throughout the week. Things like that ought to be tailored to ones disposition. I will say the folks who live closer to the poverty line do not always have access to available safe and roomy spaces to sweat it out in to keep ahead of the poor intake side.

    The plenty part should be in bold so I fixed it. Man the thing that I'm stuck on is that the rappers that didn't die by substance abuse or violence tend to go out like this, common health complications for poc. I assume a certain conventional level of fame (not this IG shit) and money can and should equal access. So it's a real bummer that these brothas can be passing from the same shit as Uncle Ro who worked 1.5 jobs all day and on the weekend. Guess it's an either or thing, if you're gonna consume mad calories and sugar then you better find a way to regularly get that metabolism up early in life and often. Even then this is all learned behavior, even if you need to unlearn some habits first.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  14. #8639
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    Interesting. I've always heard if you regularly exercise you can eat what you want. I never gave that too much credence cause I felt regular exercise can depend, a 20 minute walk a day doesn't mean you can mainline a case of beer throughout the week. Things like that ought to be tailored to ones disposition. I will say the folks who live closer to the poverty line do not always have access to available safe and roomy spaces to sweat it out in to keep ahead of the poor intake side.
    Diet is way more important than exercise.

    It is also WAY harder. Takes way more consistency and dedication and saying "no" in your head 100x a day.

    So, sometimes it is easier to start with excercise (and really needs to be weight training of some sort to really see the benefits) and go from there.

    And yes, people in poverty are behind 15 eightballs for anything. I'm not really talking about them... that is a whole other thing.
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  15. #8640
    Astonishing Member Overhazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Diet is way more important than exercise.

    It is also WAY harder. Takes way more consistency and dedication and saying "no" in your head 100x a day.

    So, sometimes it is easier to start with excercise (and really needs to be weight training of some sort to really see the benefits) and go from there.

    And yes, people in poverty are behind 15 eightballs for anything. I'm not really talking about them... that is a whole other thing.
    It's especially difficult if you're avoiding a certain kind of food. For medical reasons, I have to avoid dairy. I knew about the obvious things, chocolate, cheese, butter, (as an aside I miss real chocolate milk, so much. Chocolate Silk is...fine but it's not the same.) I didn't know there was dairy in foods I wouldn't expect, like salt & vinegar chips. Turns out the kind of vinegar used is cheap and really sour so they have to use milk to dilute it. Any processed food in the frozen section probably has dairy in it. I thought to myself, "No wonder Vegans are always so mad, they can't eat anything."

    I started doing calisthenics at home cause I can't afford a gym membership. I'm getting closer to my goal of doing one armed push ups.

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