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  1. #8371
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    While I'd agree what you're talking about is messed up, it has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making.
    Messed up he says... the parallels between the two giant entertainment industries I see escapes you. I'm arguing there is no point on your behalf. Only it's something else the kids have a name for, rhymes with ASS BLIGHTING... but you're not a kid are you. The crux of the pair of your posts was this stammering flex where you cape for altruism on behalf of historic white executive power.

    Where were you even going or have any backup with these leaps and assumption?


    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    While at the top of entertainment companies there are mostly fat, old white men waggling their jowls at the thought of casting a POC in a lead role

    it's not entirely/mostly for racist reasons..........

    At least, not their own personal racism..............

    They assume...............
    This shuttlecock drill of benefit of the doubt is terrible, look like you're trying to crack a sub 2 minute 40 time? So the heads of the Hollywood studio system, the decision makers, are just beholden in catering to this acknowledged (thanks?) segment of bigots and liars and American consumers who prefer their images and any associating minorities, to stick to the hierarchy of the past. While the rest of us just begrudgingly rock with it right. That is your 1st point? That not you?

    That’s the usual thought process, but it’s been disproven enough times to be arguably either a negligible phenomenon, or a negative self-perpetuating one leaving money on the table.

    Black Panther definitely had Ike Perlmutter nervous enough to keep on cancelling it until Feige got out from under him, and even when the film was being released, someone panicked enough to switch the Chinese posters from showing Boseman’s face to instead show a masked BP… and it still made insane cash in America and worldwide, *including China,* in spite of the doomsayers at the time. On a lesser note, Star Wars: The Force Awakens made no bones about the fact it’s stars were a woman and a black man, and that film set the record for domestic box office, and what failures it did have abroad were placed pretty squarely on its reliance on nostalgia for the OT.

    Adding to the argument, if, as some like myself think, The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker were overreacting to fears of racist audiences after the fact, they proved that tp be an ineffective and harmful tactic that only gained them bad publicity as time went on, drove minorities and women away from the film, and failed to slow the loss of even white fans.


    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    Agree totally, but the problem with ignorance/prejudice is you're hamstrung from the get-go.
    Oh Rly? The people on the business end of that treatment are might more than 'hamstrung'. But I get it, you weren't talking about those people. To that I say probably a pretty good living can be made selling stars and bars merchandise showing off the symbols of ignorance/prejudice up to and including political measures proclaiming what Black doesn't do or more succinctly shouldn't be allowed to do.

    Man, the NFL is the biggest entertainment entity in America and only Hollywood is it's closest rival. If the league will go as far as divide it's 60% Black players from the 40% White ones in terms of how the compensation for a settlement, then it is not a stretch to feel there are a dozen Ike Pearlmutter's still on the job doing what they do. Since you want to keep it on the Especially when there is ZERO men of color at the top of those industries in ownership or major decision making.


    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    Luckily money talks, so when people are allowed to succeed and earn money then Executive Producer Jowls up there will hop on board. Money trumps prejudice/conservatism.
    Back at one. 'Luckily'? What a way to put things, luckily my ass, MONEY pushes the bullshit too just that idea(l) is not a panacea. What is the dollar amount in your mind that's enough to- 'hop on board'. Lots of guys with money and power and access saw fit to storm the Capitol and there are a million others back at home who didn't find it as advantageous to run up in the Capitol along with them.

    Being 'allowed' to succeed is just code for 'at least the top of the top of you people is compensated'. Don't confuse exposure leveling the playing field, not even an equel field mind you just the perception of equity is cause for blowback so we know that's gonna be a fight. NEXT.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  2. #8372
    MYTH SMITH ∞ !!! G. Boney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    We'll see how Shang Chi does (though I do wish they'd gone with an East Asian hero who wasn't yet another martial artist).
    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I assume they went with Shang-Chi because he's the most well known Asian Marvel hero, which itself is rooted in him being around longer but from a time where these stereotypes were even more prevalent. I hope eventually characters like Amadeus Cho get adapted too. Silk is also supposedly getting a show.
    That's why I feel it's good that Eternals comes out the same year as Shang Chi. It has 3 asian characters in the cast, and none are martial artists to my knowledge (Kingo is in the comics, but I don't know if the Kumail Nanjiani version will be that). There's nothing inherently wrong with an asian martial artist, but when that is the ONLY representation it's problematic IMO.
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  3. #8373
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    Hmmmmmm... Can you give some examples of this actually happening? Cuz...
    To be honest it would be hard to offer examples.

    We have seen studios toss aside money for bias and conservatism. Or in cases where someone needs to be asking some legit questions.


    While at the top of entertainment companies there are mostly fat, old white men waggling their jowls at the thought of casting a POC in a lead role
    it's not entirely/mostly for racist reasons..........
    At least, not their own personal racism..............
    They assume...............

    So what was the reason the WB invited Dwayne McDuffie and Milestone to the building to offer a Static Shock series with a WHITE Virgil O Hawkins?

    When you have WHITE characters who have the same powers as Virgil that you 100% OWN.

    Ask various black and even WHITE writers who would told by publishers, agents and others that they could write black characters doing stuff that black folks are NOT stereotyped as doing.
    Ask Steve Harvey, Marlon Wayans, Jaime Foxx, Robert Townsend, Malik Yoba and others who were ORDERED by folks in charge to FIRE POC and increase the number of whites on their shows.
    Ask Chris Rock about why his show The Hughley had to WAIT till the 11th hour to get renewed despite having ratings while white shows with low ratings got renewed.
    Ask the CW why they REFUSED to promote Everybody Hates Chris, Girlfriends, The Game and All of Us-because they wanted to make the CW a network for WHITE women. 30 different shows tried to replace those 4 shows. NONE made it past season 1 or 13 episodes until Jane the Virgin.
    Ask Hasbro and all these toys companies why Static Shock could NOT get toys despite being the number 2 show for kids.
    Ask Disney why Finn got little to NOTHING during the Star Wars run-he was MIA in the Black Label line with a figure for the last movie. They PANDERED to those trolls.
    Ask Netflix why Lucas is an after thought in terms of stories and merchandise on Stranger Things. He is the only boy that has NOT headlined a book.
    Where are the black guy lead video games? Because they seem to make more money with a black lead as Miles & Mafia 3 showed.

    So if it's NOT their personal racism-what is it?

    Why is it okay to greenlight box office bombs with white guys but we BALK at black ones that are not?

    Could it be that they are PANDERING to others?


    If we were concerned about MONEY-we should not keep seeing white male box office bomb after bomb after bomb. Yet Disney had that.

    Black Panther made a billion and won 3 Oscars. Yet aside from Static, Blade & Falcon-where are the black hero films? The only one I have seen is from Africa.

  4. #8374
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    Pandering is another word used to bash minorities, plain and simple. Yet the real pandering has always been to the majority

    Quote Originally Posted by G. Boney View Post
    That's why I feel it's good that Eternals comes out the same year as Shang Chi. It has 3 asian characters in the cast, and none are martial artists to my knowledge (Kingo is in the comics, but I don't know if the Kumail Nanjiani version will be that). There's nothing inherently wrong with an asian martial artist, but when that is the ONLY representation it's problematic IMO.
    Yeah, and the problem IMO comes from a lack of Asian heroes in order to provide variety. A lot of newer Asian heroes don't seem to be based on martial arts tropes

  5. #8375
    Astonishing Member CSTowle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    Hmmmmmm... Can you give some examples of this actually happening? Cuz...
    Black Panther's buzz from Civil War led to his movie, and would have likely led to several sequels if not for the death of the star and the canceling of the next most interesting character who might have taken up the mantle. Black-led movies/TV shows are far more likely to be approved and have a larger budget than they have in decades past. This has mostly been a ground-up movement and hiring of non-white people in decision making positions trying to change the culture and assumptions that led to studio heads rejecting anything other than white-hetero-male leads in major franchises, but when shown that if you make something else people will pay for tickets it's made it easier to expand that thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    Messed up he says... the parallels between the two giant entertainment industries I see escapes you. I'm arguing there is no point on your behalf. Only it's something else the kids have a name for, rhymes with ASS BLIGHTING... but you're not a kid are you. The crux of the pair of your posts was this stammering flex where you cape for altruism on behalf of historic white executive power.

    Where were you even going or have any backup with these leaps and assumption?




    This shuttlecock drill of benefit of the doubt is terrible, look like you're trying to crack a sub 2 minute 40 time? So the heads of the Hollywood studio system, the decision makers, are just beholden in catering to this acknowledged (thanks?) segment of bigots and liars and American consumers who prefer their images and any associating minorities, to stick to the hierarchy of the past. While the rest of us just begrudgingly rock with it right. That is your 1st point? That not you?



    Oh Rly? The people on the business end of that treatment are might more than 'hamstrung'. But I get it, you weren't talking about those people. To that I say probably a pretty good living can be made selling stars and bars merchandise showing off the symbols of ignorance/prejudice up to and including political measures proclaiming what Black doesn't do or more succinctly shouldn't be allowed to do.

    Man, the NFL is the biggest entertainment entity in America and only Hollywood is it's closest rival. If the league will go as far as divide it's 60% Black players from the 40% White ones in terms of how the compensation for a settlement, then it is not a stretch to feel there are a dozen Ike Pearlmutter's still on the job doing what they do. Since you want to keep it on the Especially when there is ZERO men of color at the top of those industries in ownership or major decision making.




    Back at one. 'Luckily'? What a way to put things, luckily my ass, MONEY pushes the bullshit too just that idea(l) is not a panacea. What is the dollar amount in your mind that's enough to- 'hop on board'. Lots of guys with money and power and access saw fit to storm the Capitol and there are a million others back at home who didn't find it as advantageous to run up in the Capitol along with them.

    Being 'allowed' to succeed is just code for 'at least the top of the top of you people is compensated'. Don't confuse exposure leveling the playing field, not even an equel field mind you just the perception of equity is cause for blowback so we know that's gonna be a fight. NEXT.
    I find insults to be childish and counterproductive, and most likely to occur when the person throwing them out isn't confident in their arguments, but if you want to portray me as "stammering/gaslighting/childish/shuttlecocking/caping" because it gives you some sense of comfort/equal footing to try to drag me down rather than addressing my points and giving a decent argument for your perspective that's your choice.

    As to the points you made, there are several major differences between the NFL and Hollywood despite their both being major entertainment sources. 1. The NFL is a talent-based system with a short shelf life and high turnover. The same kind of people who own/run Hollywood studios also own NFL franchises, so that parallel is correct, but the players earn their jobs. They get drafted/hired because they either have the skill or they don't, and get paid based on that skill and their value (in the short or long term) to their franchise. Unlike a Hollywood where a Jeremy Renner can be in 20 different billion-dollar franchises without anything particularly special or compelling about his personality or skill set the NFL equivalent doesn't get $20+ million a year without having the skills to back it up. And when someone shows that skill set Jerry Jones (racist or no) is going to want him on his team so they can beat the other teams.

    A better example would be the coaching staff or QBs, where traditionally black coaching candidates or QBs had to endure stereotypes of being "less intelligent" than their white counterparts and in the case of coaching personal relationships played and continue to play a big role. As they are higher profile/faces of the franchise that's a big deal. On your point of black players being screwed out of money owed to them you'll find no disagreement from me. Nor would you if you wanted to discuss exploitation of college players. Though it doesn't seem like you're much interested in areas of agreement, just labeling to dismiss.

    As to the argument that I'm trying to protect the virtues of white executives by passing the blame onto the racists in the audience, I'm not absolving them of anything. I'm pointing out that while many of them are likely racist they're also capitalists first. Like a Donald Sterling who had no problem paying large amounts of money to talented black players but balked at the thought of spending time with them. Does their racism and conservatism make it easier to accept a way of thinking that says anything other than white/hetero/male in the lead will be a bust at the box office? Sure. Does that mean when they see that they're wrong they won't change course for the sake of an extra buck? I'm arguing no.

    For others giving examples of racist suppression of black creators and actors in the past and present, I don't disagree with you and I'm not saying all white executives have learned the lesson that a non-white/male/hetero lead can be successful or has an equal chance of success (and failure) as a Chris Hemsworth or Chris Evans or Chris Pratt (or any other blonde Chris in the industry). I'm saying it's a mindset that needs to be changed, but I have faith can be changed. Even if only for box office reasons and not "altruistic" ones.
    Formerly finfangfool

  6. #8376
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    I find insul
    I FIND, you agreeing with me 75% of what I've had to say to you. The only part you seem to make issue with is how it came back to you. Use your imagination on how I feel about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    The same kind of people who own/run Hollywood studios also own NFL franchises, so that parallel is correct, but...

    you'll find no disagreement from me. Nor would you if you wanted to discuss exploitation of college players...

    As to the argument that I'm trying to protect the virtues of white executives by passing the blame onto the racists in the audience,
    I'm not absolving them of anything. I'm pointing out that while...

    I don't disagree with you and I'm not saying all...

    I'm saying it's
    Whatever all that is. I haven't insulted you, just pointed out these goofy efforts. I've told you, with the confidence, that you have made no point nor added anything. Other of course that is, other than this championing of capitalistic pie in the sky. The fact that you've walked it back off some, or your wobbly ass clarification and how one (as in WE or I, here, for all intent know full better) understands a bigger presence and implication than you are acknowledging, is all you done. I doubt anybody sees this any different.

    What I understand is the same history of racial discrimination can, and is fueled, however not even exclusively, by capitalism. It's how United States bread got buttered. This generational legacy of disparity it's caused isn't going to be corrected by spotty sponsorship pullouts and public pressure on a movie. Who is insulting whom.

    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    Like a Donald Sterling who had no problem paying large amounts of money to talented black players but balked at the thought of spending time with them.
    Sterling is where I'll end this exercise, since you're speaking on his behalf. What choice did he have? Who is he to even bring up btw? Same with Marge Schott and a dozen others like them. Of course he had a problem with it, the greedy fucks ends justified the means. So when you say the 'black players being screwed out of money' with the race norming in the NFL, these leagues enable behaviors that damage not just black players being screwed out of money. The practices have a decades of impact on them and their families. Only to give a pass to the white counterparts. So it's not a stretch to not these ones at the top they can often be seen as lesser. Kind of like 3/5ths lesser.

    A billionaires whose paid millions in salary is collectively bargained. Have it their way, these owners would pay players nothing. Which however didn't stop him from being a notoriously poor owner I might add, he was a notoriously cheap owner in terms of contract. Bringing that relic up isn't any type of win on your end. His players being Black is irrespective, his capitalistic goals he decided was worth it to associate in a group according to his ability. He aslo sought to see himself as a very rich asshole, is all part of it. The associates he coveted through his shitty gains, helped him get near ones who make polices to discriminate the very group where he employs. Owners of these leagues can raise taxes and effect policies, often without notice to the public. There's capitalism working to correct shit I guess.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  7. #8377
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Happy Father's Day fellas.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

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  9. #8379
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    That seems to be covering... a lot lol.

    Snake Eyes is the mute one right?
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post

    Snake Eyes is the mute one right?
    That is correct.

  11. #8381
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    That seems to be covering... a lot lol.

    Snake Eyes is the mute one right?
    Gotta get that franchise building going.

  12. #8382
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Tsssss, I guess I'm rockin', as an 80's kid I'm kinda obligated to check it out.

    Is the other dude Storm Shadow? Didn't he have a dog?

    I was taken aback for a sec when it cut to the Baroness, then I realized the internet has poisoned certain wells. Inching her closer to the German dungeon erotica she's so often fashioned for, is prolly a move. She closer to it than Sienna Miller was though :shrug:


    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  13. #8383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    Tsssss, I guess I'm rockin', as an 80's kid I'm kinda obligated to check it out.

    Is the other dude Storm Shadow? Didn't he have a dog?

    I was taken aback for a sec when it cut to the Baroness, then I realized the internet has poisoned certain wells. Inching her closer to the German dungeon erotica she's so often fashioned for, is prolly a move. She closer to it than Sienna Miller was though :shrug:


    Really? I admit my experience with this franchise is fairly limited but Miller looked pretty much what I expected a live action Baroness to look like.

  14. #8384
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    I was gonna skip Snake eyes but that 2nd trailer looks good.

  15. #8385
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Really? I admit my experience with this franchise is fairly limited but Miller looked pretty much what I expected a live action Baroness to look like.
    Nah, Miller looked she was dressed up l like Baroness for Halloween. This chick is still on the small side but her vibe is way closer to the OG. If they let her act in any way maniacal she could nail it. *looks up her name, Ursula here wears a bit of Cold War era on her face, Miller always looked like she was in between Maxim shoots.

    Ideally one closer to Sarah Douglas as opposed to Elizabeth Banks again imo.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

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