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  1. #7651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    Part of it is that the Writer/Director of this series had deliberately toned down or eliminated the gunplay from Russo Bros. level on principle.

    And if they hadn't made that choice, some of those fights we saw would have been over in seconds. I forgot that in Civil War Falcon had shoulder mounted guided missiles and some kind of wrist mounted launcher. In addition to the guns and the weaponized drone.

    I guess the in story rationale is they aren't fighting Aliens or Hydra so they decided to dial it down a bit, lol.
    I think that rationale could work in light of the justified real-world backlash against excessive force by government officials, which Sam himself has fought against in CA2

  2. #7652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    Part of it is that the Writer/Director of this series had deliberately toned down or eliminated the gunplay from Russo Bros. level on principle.

    And if they hadn't made that choice, some of those fights we saw would have been over in seconds. I forgot that in Civil War Falcon had shoulder mounted guided missiles and some kind of wrist mounted launcher. In addition to the guns and the weaponized drone.

    I guess the in story rationale is they aren't fighting Aliens or Hydra so they decided to dial it down a bit, lol.
    War time falcon lil different than free agent hero falcon i guess

    Dude had no problem killing the episode 1 terrorist lol
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  3. #7653
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    It is not just that it's a tired trope that bugged me about it, or even that I don't think it even added anything to the story -- think about it, they've already had Walker looking unstable, they've already *******phed he was going to go bad, he was roughing up a rando in the last episode and earlier this episode wanted to fight Sam just because. It's not like there needed to be some great tragedy to make him turn to the dark side ... I mean, in fact, you already had the ass-kicking from the Dora obviously crush his little world, so ... yeah, just really seemed unnecessary, as far as a plot point.

    On top of all that, though ... consider Bucky jumping out of a plane and landing with no injury, consider the fight on the top of moving vehicles, where the laws of physics and objects in motion only apply when the story just wants them to -- ie, the people on top of these speeding trucks are fighting as if they are standing still, rather than moving at high velocity -- and how all four ultimately ended up tossed from these trucks without injury. Hang on, by memory, Sam grabbed Bucky from underneath a moving truck (still defying laws of physics, but whatever) but ... yeah, okay, actually just quick re-watched the end of that scene. Walker and Hoskins were both thrown from the top of a speeding truck, both landing without apparently so much as a strain or a cracked rib.

    I'm saying, for all that I realize you have stuff like Nagel getting shot or Karli killing the guards in the building she blew up or whatever, overall the violence in this has been kind of cartoonish -- that is, you don't have people being killed or even taking injury from things they normally would. So spoilers:
    having Hoskins suddenly die from a random single blow just struck me as dumb, and ignoring the normal rules established by the narrative. It would be different, even, if she'd at least meant to kill him. But in the same episode where the Dora are whacking people with metal spears without it doing any damage, suddenly this guy randomly dies from a single blow? Nah, that's stupid.
    end of spoilers

    While I'm at it, though -- this last episode had some line about the Power Broker being upset, because the "golden goose" was dead, and now those last doses were the only ones there ever would be? Well, am I missing something, or was there some explanation given for why Nagel didn't make more serum, in between the time Karli stole the last ones, and his unfortunate meeting with Zemo? Like, what was he doing in that lab, all that time, in between?

    For that matter, why was he working completely alone? The Power Broker never saw Breaking Bad? Heisenberg's assistant eventually could do the job totally without him; maybe don't leave all your eggs in one basket?

    See, I think the reason it was easier for me to be less critical of WandaVision is that most of it took place in a literally magical sitcom setting, so there was less to stand out as notably unrealistic. This show is set in the real world, and is spanning all over the globe, with lots of real people involved, at least peripherally. If you want me to take it only as serious as I might a cartoon ... okay, then I can be less critical. Throw in random "tragic" deaths ... suspension of disbelief goes out the window.
    Wat i found somewhat weird is everyone stopped

    Like... yall were using knives lol. Now yall acting shocked someones dead lol.

    Guess they reallly only planned on killing unenhanced Walker
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  4. #7654
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post

    and I was a little mean to Sam



    (can't believe I like MCU Falcon this much when i've always been very meh on comic falcon lol)


    Waaoow, LOL, after a couple episodes of pay television. The years, my man Shadow has beenabsolutely ROASTING Sam Wilson in this very thread, at every turn. Opposing feelings, be damned lol!! All that, has gone out the door, just glad I was here to see it.

    I love it, nah for real, it just fully happened with this show. This is the first time for me in all the MCU, but Makie's Falcon is now the shadow that looms over the 616 and not the other way around. I still yearn for a Redwing that eats live mice but whatyagonnado lol. He's making it work that's for sure, if this shakes out like the 99% chance it probably will, that's an interesting turn that I hope we get to see in action at some point.
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  5. #7655
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Wat i found somewhat weird is everyone stopped

    Like... yall were using knives lol. Now yall acting shocked someones dead lol.

    Guess they reallly only planned on killing unenhanced Walker
    That seems to very much be the case, especially considering how hesitant and horrified Dovich was at them escalating to lethal tactics, and how they intentionally subdued Lemar instead fo killing him. Karli specifically saying she doesn’t think that killing Sam would do anything implies that even she has some hesitance for high-carnage tactics that don't feed directly into a message she can send.

    Lemar was apparently someone they planned to leave alive, and they were mostly fixated on killing Walker *because* he’ Captain America, not because he’s Walker.

    It’s exactly the kind of stupidly specific and still too violent objective untrained radicals might employ,
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  6. #7656
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    It is not just that it's a tired trope that bugged me about it, or even that I don't think it even added anything to the story -- think about it, they've already had Walker looking unstable, they've already *******phed he was going to go bad, he was roughing up a rando in the last episode and earlier this episode wanted to fight Sam just because. It's not like there needed to be some great tragedy to make him turn to the dark side ... I mean, in fact, you already had the ass-kicking from the Dora obviously crush his little world, so ... yeah, just really seemed unnecessary, as far as a plot point.

    On top of all that, though ... consider Bucky jumping out of a plane and landing with no injury, consider the fight on the top of moving vehicles, where the laws of physics and objects in motion only apply when the story just wants them to -- ie, the people on top of these speeding trucks are fighting as if they are standing still, rather than moving at high velocity -- and how all four ultimately ended up tossed from these trucks without injury. Hang on, by memory, Sam grabbed Bucky from underneath a moving truck (still defying laws of physics, but whatever) but ... yeah, okay, actually just quick re-watched the end of that scene. Walker and Hoskins were both thrown from the top of a speeding truck, both landing without apparently so much as a strain or a cracked rib.

    I'm saying, for all that I realize you have stuff like Nagel getting shot or Karli killing the guards in the building she blew up or whatever, overall the violence in this has been kind of cartoonish -- that is, you don't have people being killed or even taking injury from things they normally would. So spoilers:
    having Hoskins suddenly die from a random single blow just struck me as dumb, and ignoring the normal rules established by the narrative. It would be different, even, if she'd at least meant to kill him. But in the same episode where the Dora are whacking people with metal spears without it doing any damage, suddenly this guy randomly dies from a single blow? Nah, that's stupid.
    end of spoilers

    While I'm at it, though -- this last episode had some line about the Power Broker being upset, because the "golden goose" was dead, and now those last doses were the only ones there ever would be? Well, am I missing something, or was there some explanation given for why Nagel didn't make more serum, in between the time Karli stole the last ones, and his unfortunate meeting with Zemo? Like, what was he doing in that lab, all that time, in between?

    For that matter, why was he working completely alone? The Power Broker never saw Breaking Bad? Heisenberg's assistant eventually could do the job totally without him; maybe don't leave all your eggs in one basket?

    See, I think the reason it was easier for me to be less critical of WandaVision is that most of it took place in a literally magical sitcom setting, so there was less to stand out as notably unrealistic. This show is set in the real world, and is spanning all over the globe, with lots of real people involved, at least peripherally. If you want me to take it only as serious as I might a cartoon ... okay, then I can be less critical. Throw in random "tragic" deaths ... suspension of disbelief goes out the window.
    That's alot. Unfortunetly much of this can be explained under comic book logic. Sounds cheap but really that's what it is. Bucky jumping from the plane was a lot but it was flying really low, his arm slowed his fall by grabing parts of the trees. Same stunt cap did in Avengers.

    The Dora weren't out to kill but yea, those were Vibranium spears I'm sure they would leave a mark. They and the Avengers all went through the snap first hand in front of their faces. Walker and Hoskins have been getting duffed every time they showed up, ever ytime, them literally licking their wounds against a King's security force would have been a bit much even then.

    The resources it would have taken to mass produce the serum would be monumental, the synthesis process is like making whiskey. Yea you could push it out but it's surely gotta age? I like that there was one who, that's all he did was seek to make serum. How he tested it I have no idea or why even didn't he take it himself but Zemo had to show he's still getting his hands dirty after dancing for an hour.

    spoilers:
    You have a point there though. Sam's military guy got his ass slammed to the pavement and his head kicked in and was able to get back on the clock. Flag Smashers have killed people (as much as D+ is going to allow at this point) so yea, he didn't even get to get his chest caved but again, Lemar kinda just fell out of the sky and away he went. His debut was more of a shock than his death. Although his death was a little different because it was directly on Walker's haste of the situation, that got his man got killed then in turn Walker killed. Hoskins was gonna die, that's for damn sure, the means of which on matter a little (I'm glad at least he didn't take a bullet for Walker). Maybe he got hurt worse in the spat with the Dora than led on? My only thing is there aren't much by the way of supporting Cap cast in general so his run seemed a little short but thems the breaks. Lemar, I have to put in the easy come, easy go pile. Can't lose what you never really had so on and so forth.
    end of spoilers

    I also feel Monica was absolutely worthless in Wandavision. On one hand, comic book introductions are often done this way, and that was the only part that her role was successful in. That and explaining the first of the consequences of the snap. She failed at every attempt to intervene and got her ass thrown out of Wanda's hex more than once. Even taking bullets for make believe kids was just to show when her time comes for her next live action role, parts of her powerset might not need to be completely explained.

    She was a sista playing Fred from Scooby-Doo for most of her time on the show, the other time was spent playing Devil's advocate for Wanda's actions. Because... they're supers of course?
    Last edited by Surf; 04-12-2021 at 07:00 AM.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  7. #7657
    Astonishing Member Overhazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    That's alot. Unfortunetly much of this can be explained under comic book logic. Sounds cheap but really that's what it is. Bucky jumping from the plane was a lot but it was flying really low, his arm slowed his fall by grabing parts of the trees. Same stunt cap did in Avengers.

    The Dora weren't out to kill but yea, those were Vibranium spears I'm sure they would leave a mark. They and the Avengers all went through the snap first hand in front of their faces. Walker and Hoskins have been getting duffed every time they showed up, ever ytime, them literally licking their wounds against a King's security force would have been a bit much even then.

    The resources it would have taken to mass produce the serum would be monumental, the synthesis process is like making whiskey. Yea you could push it out but it's surely gotta age? I like that there was one who, that's all he did was seek to make serum. How he tested it I have no idea or why even didn't he take it himself but Zemo had to show he's still getting his hands dirty after dancing for an hour.

    spoilers:
    You have a point there though. Sam's military guy got his ass slammed to the pavement and his head kicked in and was able to get back on the clock. Flag Smashers have killed people (as much as D+ is going to allow at this point) so yea, he didn't even get to get his chest caved but again, Lemar kinda just fell out of the sky and away he went. His debut was more of a shock than his death. Although his death was a little different because it was directly on Walker's haste of the situation, that got his man got killed then in turn Walker killed. Hoskins was gonna die, that's for damn sure, the means of which on matter a little (I'm glad at least he didn't take a bullet for Walker). Maybe he got hurt worse in the spat with the Dora than led on? My only thing is there aren't much by the way of supporting Cap cast in general so his run seemed a little short but thems the breaks. Lemar, I have to put in the easy come, easy go pile. Can't lose what you never really had so on and so forth.
    end of spoilers

    I also feel Monica was absolutely worthless in Wandavision. On one hand, comic book introductions are often done this way, and that was the only part that her role was successful in. That and explaining the first of the consequences of the snap. She failed at every attempt to intervene and got her ass thrown out of Wanda's hex more than once. Even taking bullets for make believe kids was just to show when her time comes for her next live action role, parts of her powerset might not need to be completely explained.

    She was a sista playing Fred from Scooby-Doo for most of her time on the show, the other time was spent playing Devil's advocate for Wanda's actions. Because... they're supers of course?
    I feel that Monica is just playing into the marvel tradition of being the black best friend to a powerful white hero. Like her mom was Carol's best friend. Wanda doesn't really have any friends in the show except for Monica. She has powers, so she won't have to worry about getting punked by Ant-Man, who got one over on both Falcon and War Machine.

    Speaking of Sam, I kind of want him to get the Serum too, maybe he doesn't want it because he's afraid of what it bring out in him. Sure Steve turned out alright, but he's not sure about himself.

  8. #7658
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    Monica should've been leading the SWORD mission and be more skeptical of Wanda rather than simply saying "Wanda's good". Plus, it would've been nice to see her use the full range of her powers.

  9. #7659
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Wat i found somewhat weird is everyone stopped

    Like... yall were using knives lol. Now yall acting shocked someones dead lol.

    Guess they reallly only planned on killing unenhanced Walker
    They wanted thier kill to have symbolic meaning. Only Walker would give them that.

    Karli said herself that killing Sam wouldn't prove anything and he was an Avenger.

    At best the Flagsmashers saw Battlestar as a hostage or human shield to keep the authorities off them.

    At worst its...for all they know he was ordered to be Walker's sidekick. Dude's harmless(and they kinda ain't wrong either), dude lost his sidearm 5 minutes after getting there and he isn't even guarding badly needed supplies. Dude's just....there.

    The Flagsmashers can't condone killing that poor bastard even in their own minds.

    If Walker and Hoskins operated like Oliver and Diggle did on Arrow Season1 (you beat them up on the ground, I'll be up here with a sniper rifle) Battlestar's whole deal would have been lot less...sad.

  10. #7660
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Monica should've been leading the SWORD mission and be more skeptical of Wanda rather than simply saying "Wanda's good". Plus, it would've been nice to see her use the full range of her powers.
    They would’ve done better to have Monica be less “Pro-Wanda” and more deductive and sharp around Heyward - like she was going along with him until she pieced together that he only started claiming Wanda “broke into SWORD and stole Vision’s body” well after they found Wanda and Vision there and he didn’t say anything, or merely found his tactics too erratic and suspicious. Or maybe she notices that Agatha hasn’t been identified yet.

    Then you could have her re-entering the Hex be more about trying to negotiate with Wanda from a more objective and wary standpoint.
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  11. #7661
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    On a very personal level, I would rather they had gone the "augmentation route" rather than "super soldier serum.

    I don't like that the serum could be recreated that easily. In the comics Walker is augmented and said augmentation makes him A LOT stronger and much more durable than Captain America.

    Comics Walker could walk through bullet fire albeit with some injuries. But I understand the need for the series to tie everything together; bringing in an additional element like augmentation could make stuff confusing.
    Black Lives Matter.

  12. #7662
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    They would’ve done better to have Monica be less “Pro-Wanda” and more deductive and sharp around Heyward - like she was going along with him until she pieced together that he only started claiming Wanda “broke into SWORD and stole Vision’s body” well after they found Wanda and Vision there and he didn’t say anything, or merely found his tactics too erratic and suspicious. Or maybe she notices that Agatha hasn’t been identified yet.

    Then you could have her re-entering the Hex be more about trying to negotiate with Wanda from a more objective and wary standpoint.
    Yeah. I think she should've already had her powers too

  13. #7663
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Yeah. I think she should've already had her powers too
    Lazy writing is all that was. I can't tell you how off-putting i found her defense of Wanda's misdeeds to Westview Residents but then again I understand why the writers wrote her like that because they knew fans would be rooting for Wanda no matter what. The reaction to what Ayo did to Bucky's arm is proof enough what a hive mind the fandom is to characters that are opposing their favorites.

  14. #7664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofali View Post
    Lazy writing is all that was. I can't tell you how off-putting i found her defense of Wanda's misdeeds to Westview Residents but then again I understand why the writers wrote her like that because they knew fans would be rooting for Wanda no matter what. The reaction to what Ayo did to Bucky's arm is proof enough what a hive mind the fandom is to characters that are opposing their favorites.
    How's the reaction to Ayo?

  15. #7665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    How's the reaction to Ayo?
    Fans are upset that Ayo and by extension Wakanda cannot be trusted because they don't trust Bucky by putting the failsafe in his arm. The debate is now moving to what to do or not do to a disable person like Bucky.

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