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  1. #4516
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    "progressive" NBA kissing China's feet after a damn tweet is disgusting as hell.

    China is literally a super villain country but the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ always wins.

    Bruh, we aren't any better. We have countries sending out travel advisory advising for their citizens to not visit the US due to violent hate crimes, and all of this is being perpetrated from the top on down. So yeah, china has it's issues, from one of their national newspapers calling the actress for Ariel a "colored girl." to the concentration camp China has for it's muslin citizens, but we have police officers killing us with little to no justice and perform the same concentration camps to immigrants. We're currently two peas in the same pot, and is one of the big reasons why I'm considering moving to Europe lol.

  2. #4517
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Bruh, we aren't any better. We have countries sending out travel advisory advising for their citizens to not visit the US due to violent hate crimes, and all of this is being perpetrated from the top on down. So yeah, china has it's issues, from one of their national newspapers calling the actress for Ariel a "colored girl." to the concentration camp China has for it's muslin citizens, but we have police officers killing us with little to no justice and perform the same concentration camps to immigrants. We're currently two peas in the same pot, and is one of the big reasons why I'm considering moving to Europe lol.
    It's sort of worth pointing out how we got here though, most people in China were pretty sympathetic to the Hong Kong protesters and probably wouldn't have had a problem with Morey's tweet, but that's failing to account for the fact that a lot of people in Hong Kong are just Uncle Ruckus types who are playing to the international crowd with their talk of freedom and democracy while conveniently omitting what they intend to use that power for.

  3. #4518
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Bruh, we aren't any better. We have countries sending out travel advisory advising for their citizens to not visit the US due to violent hate crimes, and all of this is being perpetrated from the top on down. So yeah, china has it's issues, from one of their national newspapers calling the actress for Ariel a "colored girl." to the concentration camp China has for it's muslin citizens, but we have police officers killing us with little to no justice and perform the same concentration camps to immigrants. We're currently two peas in the same pot, and is one of the big reasons why I'm considering moving to Europe lol.
    This is a exaggeration of USA's issues and a minimizing of China's.
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  4. #4519
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    This is a exaggeration of USA's issues and a minimizing of China's.
    China has plenty of problems for sure, but it seems like most of the criticism directed at it by Westerners is a projection of our own issues, in an attempt to make us feel like we're still the good guys pushing back against the evil empire. I mean, when you read stories about China persecuting Muslims, or engaging in "neocolonialism" in Africa, or destroying the environment with pollution, or using brutal police tactics to suppress protesters, you really have to wonder if those are written out of genuine concern for the victims, or just to assure people that we don't need to fix our own problems because China is doing the same thing and that somehow makes everything we're doing okay by comparison. For example, through four months of protests in Hong Kong, the police there have killed exactly zero people. That does not mean that they have not used excessive force at times, or that they are doing anywhere near a good job getting things under control, but it does mean that they have shown a hell of a lot more restraint than our police would have under similar circumstances, and that the Tiananmen 2.0 bloodbath that everybody has been expecting is probably not going to happen.

    As for the NBA, I'm not sure how exactly anyone's rights are being violated here. It's not as if the Chinese government is forcing the NBA to actively push propaganda on their behalf, Morey made a statement that he undoubtedly knew would piss them off, got the expected result, and is now playing the victim. The boycott was almost certainly initiated by consumers rather than being handed out by government dictate, since ruling party tends to be a lot more pragmatic and actually tries to rein in the nationalistic tendencies of the populace a lot more than you might think. And if you think that only brainwashed commie goons could possibly be against something as benign as freedom and democracy for Hong Kong, you only have to listen a bit to what the Hong Kong protesters have declared that they intend to vote for. People over here who espouse the same kind of nativist and frankly self-hating views that are popular in Hong Kong would never be tolerated, but when that sentiment is directed against an enemy nation, we can just ignore all of that and pretend the whole thing is about holding hands and singing kumbaya.
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 10-08-2019 at 07:57 AM.

  5. #4520
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Bruh, we aren't any better. We have countries sending out travel advisory advising for their citizens to not visit the US due to violent hate crimes, and all of this is being perpetrated from the top on down. So yeah, china has it's issues, from one of their national newspapers calling the actress for Ariel a "colored girl." to the concentration camp China has for it's muslin citizens, but we have police officers killing us with little to no justice and perform the same concentration camps to immigrants. We're currently two peas in the same pot, and is one of the big reasons why I'm considering moving to Europe lol.
    The US has travel advisories for most of Europe at level 2. I go to Germany twice a year for work, it is not a ray of sunshine over there. You are more likely to be robed in London than you are in New York, and with the increasing immigration that have spurred debate over mass deportations (with Europe's own concentration style refugee camps in Turkey for "for stemming the flow of refugees in to Europe"). The grass is not always greener on the other side. Europe is a powder keg just waiting to go off.

    I've been to China twice and if I don't go back it really wouldn't bother me at all.
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  6. #4521
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    This is a exaggeration of USA's issues and a minimizing of China's.

    An exaggeration? Not in the slightest, just because people refuse to accept the gravity of the situation that happens here in the states doesn't make it any less pertinent. To be honest, that has been one of the biggest problems with America, the refusal of accepting the dire issues we have here when so many other countries literally point it out towards us.
    So yes, we're no better than China, many countries have already pointed this out as is.

  7. #4522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    The US has travel advisories for most of Europe at level 2. I go to Germany twice a year for work, it is not a ray of sunshine over there. You are more likely to be robed in London than you are in New York, and with the increasing immigration that have spurred debate over mass deportations (with Europe's own concentration style refugee camps in Turkey for "for stemming the flow of refugees in to Europe"). The grass is not always greener on the other side. Europe is a powder keg just waiting to go off.

    I've been to China twice and if I don't go back it really wouldn't bother me at all.

    Eh, disagree with that statement. We can't lump an entire continent together versus a singular country like America. Brexit essentially illustrates that the UK has just as much problems as we do, but then you have countries like Sweden who has literally launched national plans to battle hate speech, something unheard of here in the states.
    There's a reason when polls are take for best place of living, America is almost never in the top 10. What's normally in the top ten? Canada, Scandanivan Countries, Germany and more.

    Of course no country is perfect, and each country has problems. But until America realize how fall we've fallen, and how we continue to fall to other countries due to our lack of willingness to address our own issues, this country will continue to head steadily downhill.

  8. #4523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    The US has travel advisories for most of Europe at level 2. I go to Germany twice a year for work, it is not a ray of sunshine over there. You are more likely to be robed in London than you are in New York, and with the increasing immigration that have spurred debate over mass deportations (with Europe's own concentration style refugee camps in Turkey for "for stemming the flow of refugees in to Europe"). The grass is not always greener on the other side. Europe is a powder keg just waiting to go off.

    I've been to China twice and if I don't go back it really wouldn't bother me at all.
    The harsh reality is that to ensure comfortable lives for some people, you need to inflict pain and misery on a much larger group of people. America and Europe are relatively lucky in the sense that we've been largely able to outsource that exploitation to people that we don't consider to be "us" although those chickens are coming home to roost in a big way right now. China hasn't had this luxury, and pretty much all of the hardship has fallen on their own population, and if that makes their regime worse than ours, then so be it. However, it's not like we ever really gave a **** about what their government does until we started pretending that China was somehow oppressing Americans, which is just silly on the face of it, because while they do try to throw their weight around, it is rarely effective and usually causes them more trouble than it's worth. Somehow, I don't think forcing a few businessmen into putting forth insincere apologies is the crime against humanity that some people are making it out to be.

  9. #4524
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    An exaggeration? Not in the slightest, just because people refuse to accept the gravity of the situation that happens here in the states doesn't make it any less pertinent. To be honest, that has been one of the biggest problems with America, the refusal of accepting the dire issues we have here when so many other countries literally point it out towards us.
    So yes, we're no better than China, many countries have already pointed this out as is.
    I wouldn't go that far. I think we are a little bit better than China, but then, when you set the bar that low, just barely clearing it isn't really something to crow about.

  10. #4525
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Eh, disagree with that statement. We can't lump an entire continent together versus a singular country like America. Brexit essentially illustrates that the UK has just as much problems as we do, but then you have countries like Sweden who has literally launched national plans to battle hate speech, something unheard of here in the states.
    There's a reason when polls are take for best place of living, America is almost never in the top 10. What's normally in the top ten? Canada, Scandanivan Countries, Germany and more.

    Of course no country is perfect, and each country has problems. But until America realize how fall we've fallen, and how we continue to fall to other countries due to our lack of willingness to address our own issues, this country will continue to head steadily downhill.
    Ever notice how most of the "Best Countries to Live In" are about 95% white people from the same ethnic back ground. Its like they are happy that their neighbor looks just like them and for the most part thinks just like them too. That is the scandinavian countries, the "best" places to live in. And Canada has a 3.5% black and Hispanic population they are basically the North American clone of Norway (they are the "I'm not raciest I have a black friend" country) . Now look at the reaction of the people in those countries over the last few years and immigration has incressed. There has been a rise of people that are upset that there neighbor does not look like them or have the same views. Sweden's plan isn't really to battle hate speech but to hide it, like they try to do with their homeless population.

    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    The harsh reality is that to ensure comfortable lives for some people, you need to inflict pain and misery on a much larger group of people. America and Europe are relatively lucky in the sense that we've been largely able to outsource that exploitation to people that we don't consider to be "us" although those chickens are coming home to roost in a big way right now. China hasn't had this luxury, and pretty much all of the hardship has fallen on their own population, and if that makes their regime worse than ours, then so be it. However, it's not like we ever really gave a **** about what their government does until we started pretending that China was somehow oppressing Americans, which is just silly on the face of it, because while they do try to throw their weight around, it is rarely effective and usually causes them more trouble than it's worth. Somehow, I don't think forcing a few businessmen into putting forth insincere apologies is the crime against humanity that some people are making it out to be.
    We have a high bar for standard of living here, and every one is all for fighting for human rights until the price of the iPhone starts to go up.
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  11. #4526
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    The harsh reality is that to ensure comfortable lives for some people, you need to inflict pain and misery on a much larger group of people. America and Europe are relatively lucky in the sense that we've been largely able to outsource that exploitation to people that we don't consider to be "us" although those chickens are coming home to roost in a big way right now. China hasn't had this luxury, and pretty much all of the hardship has fallen on their own population, and if that makes their regime worse than ours, then so be it. However, it's not like we ever really gave a **** about what their government does until we started pretending that China was somehow oppressing Americans, which is just silly on the face of it, because while they do try to throw their weight around, it is rarely effective and usually causes them more trouble than it's worth. Somehow, I don't think forcing a few businessmen into putting forth insincere apologies is the crime against humanity that some people are making it out to be.
    This is closer to the mark, imo.

    China does things like enforced sterilization, imprisonment without trial (or a Kangaroo court at best) and using military force against civilians against the ethnic majority. I.E. people that the ruling class would consider its own people.

    Speaking of "own kind" as bad as the Native American reservations are they aren't not literal internment camps. They are allowed to leave.

    120000+ Uyghurs can't even do that much.

    Not a high bar, no. But let's be clear on the differences.

  12. #4527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    Ever notice how most of the "Best Countries to Live In" are about 95% white people from the same ethnic back ground. Its like they are happy that their neighbor looks just like them and for the most part thinks just like them too. That is the scandinavian countries, the "best" places to live in. And Canada has a 3.5% black and Hispanic population they are basically the North American clone of Norway (they are the "I'm not raciest I have a black friend" country) . Now look at the reaction of the people in those countries over the last few years and immigration has incressed. There has been a rise of people that are upset that there neighbor does not look like them or have the same views. Sweden's plan isn't really to battle hate speech but to hide it, like they try to do with their homeless population.
    Seeing as the UK and Canada (which has 21% ethnic minorities, which mostly consist of Chinese and Indian descent) are on the list, I'd say the "best countries to live in" normally have similar conditions. You know, universal health care, cheap to free education, regulated hate speech, essentially the same ideas that our considered blasphemy in the states. With that said, of course there's bound to be people who are upset regarding what some may seem as an "invasion." You can't change that behavior, but what sets countries like Sweden and Canada from America is the plans and actions to make government changes to increase diversity and encourage equality. Hiding hate speech is battling it, just like it's illegal to initiate hate speech in the UK, where you can get arrested for stating a slur. You will never get everyone in the world to stop dishing hate speech, but you can protect the minority parties from said hate speech by blocking it, making it illegal.

  13. #4528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    This is closer to the mark, imo.

    China does things like enforced sterilization, imprisonment without trial (or a Kangaroo court at best) and using military force against civilians against the ethnic majority. I.E. people that the ruling class would consider its own people.

    Speaking of "own kind" as bad as the Native American reservations are they aren't not literal internment camps. They are allowed to leave.

    120000+ Uyghurs can't even do that much.

    Not a high bar, no. But let's be clear on the differences.

    You mean like how America uses the police force against black americans and get away with in jail structure. Or how America continues to round up Mexican immigrants, separating them from their homes, and placing them in camps that has no soap or tooth paste, where kids have been dying due to the conditions they've been placed in.

    Yeah....like I said. No difference.

  14. #4529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    I wouldn't go that far. I think we are a little bit better than China, but then, when you set the bar that low, just barely clearing it isn't really something to crow about.
    Well we can agree to disagree, from all of the things that we're currently doing, I don't think we're much better at all. We're essentially at the same wavelengths with different problems.

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