Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[CosmiComic]

Yep.

That's why I was surprised.

It's an odd trope to lean into. But I guess the producers feel the series is already POC leaning but nonetheless, it's something I could do without.

Agreed.

eh

spoilers:

Walker isn't the hero. We have a POC main lead (sam), POC main villain, POC dora's stole the show last issue. Sam's POC family is about to get more screen time it seems. POC Isiah gave a very powerful 2 mins of screentime and might still be back. The issue IMO, with killing off POC or woman for motivation OR killing them off when they are the only one relaly (Darwin for example) is that that is all they are allowed to do. I want POC to get to be everytihng in a movie... and part of being everything is getting murked sometimes lol. Plus for all of Marvel's sidekick POCs... I don't remember any of them getting killed. Rhodey got injured in CW but that didn't motivate Stark at all. Hell, Bucky is the only sidekick to die in a marvel movie I do believe.

end of spoilers

Honestly the spoilers:

Dora Milaje are barely characters to me. I don't see how that fixes anything. And IMO Rhodey's injury was a cheap way to cause "tension" at the end of that battle.

end of spoilers

I get wanted PoC characters to do everything, but considering the MCU's track record, they need to actually be around long enough

[MindofShadow]

Agreed.



Honestly the spoilers:

Dora Milaje are barely characters to me. I don't see how that fixes anything.

end of spoilers

This is what I am saying... not everything has to fix everything! POC's should be able to have all roles... including just showing up and kicking ass. Just like their white counterparts. Main heroes, main villains, brutes, goons, side kicks, family, "wise old timers,"... and everything in between. And multiples of them! Not just one black sidekick (Rhodey), not just one black supporting character (heimdell), not just one black villain brute (Kurse)... I want it all! I want it even. No more tokens, no more diversity points, no more typecasts. Same opportunities as the white dudes.

And Fal/WS, on that front, is delivering that IMHO. you got POC heroes and white heroes (and woman!). you got poc villain and white villains. you got poc supporting characters and white supporting characters. It is a fairly "diverse" show without beating it over your head.

Unlike say... WandaVision which just fell back into the same MCU token black supporting character with Monica. Or hell, by the looks of it, Black Widow, although that gets some excuse considering everyone is Easter European/Russian. But still.

[CosmiComic]

This is what I am saying... not everything has to fix everything! POC's should be able to have all roles... including just showing up and kicking ass. Just like their white counterparts. Main heroes, main villains, brutes, goons, side kicks, family, "wise old timers,"... and everything in between. And multiples of them! Not just one black sidekick (Rhodey), not just one black supporting character (heimdell), not just one black villain brute (Kurse)... I want it all! I want it even. No more tokens, no more diversity points, no more typecasts. Same opportunities as the white dudes.

And Fal/WS, on that front, is delivering that IMHO. you got POC heroes and white heroes (and woman!). you got poc villain and white villains. you got poc supporting characters and white supporting characters. It is a fairly "diverse" show without beating it over your head.

Unlike say... WandaVision which just fell back into the same MCU token black supporting character with Monica. Or hell, by the looks of it, Black Widow, although that gets some excuse considering everyone is Easter European/Russian. But still.

I don't get what you mean by beating your head over it.

I also don't get how you can complain about the black best friend trope in WandaVision despite Monica actually being more involved yet be ok with spoilers:

killing the black best friend in FaWS

end of spoilers

[MindofShadow]

I also don't get how you can complain about the black best friend trope in WandaVision despite Monica actually being more involved yet be ok with spoilers:

killing the black best friend in FaWS

end of spoilers

Because there are a ton of other roles for POC in FaWS.

It isn't a situation where the only POC in the show exist to further the white dudes/duddettes cause.

Monica wasn't essential to the plot of WandaVision at all and essentially did nothing at the end except take bullets for Wanda's kids... who didn't even need help as they were perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. She just didn't do anything. She existed in the show to set up her powers. Even the initial writings for the show didn't have her there.

This is getting redundant so just agreed to disagree on the FaWS front. I dont think i tis a big deal spoilers:

Battlestar died. I don't think it is a trope this time. Not every death is a "fridge" or "trope"

end of spoilers

[CosmiComic]

Because there are a ton of other roles for POC in FaWS.

It isn't a situation where the only POC in the show exist to further the white dudes/duddettes cause.

Monica wasn't essential to the plot of WandaVision at all and essentially did nothing at the end except take bullets for Wanda's kids... who didn't even need help as they were perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. She just didn't do anything. She existed in the show to set up her powers. Even the initial writings for the show didn't have her there.

This is getting redundant so just agreed to disagree on the FaWS front. I dont think i tis a big deal spoilers:

Battlestar died. I don't think it is a trope this time. Not every death is a "fridge" or "trope"

end of spoilers

Ok. We'll agree to disagree.

[Agent Z]

I'm certainly divided on spoilers:

Battlestar

end of spoilers dying myself. It's certainly an overused cliche but I can see the argument that it is mitigated by Sam being alive.

[CosmiComic]

I'm certainly divided on spoilers:

Battlestar

end of spoilers dying myself. It's certainly an overused cliche but I can see the argument that it is mitigated by Sam being alive.

I see what you're saying, but IMO it need not necessarily be a matter of one being "enough"

[Agent Z]

I see what you're saying, but IMO it need not necessarily be a matter of one being "enough"

That's fair. As I said, this is an argument where I see the view of both sides (if you'll excuse a lack of a less tainted phrase).

[MindofShadow]

Fair enough.

But I'm very curious how Sam will cope eventually since he's not a supersoldier.

I've been beating that drum for awhile.

Even with the wings and the shield... dude is out of his element right now. Give him the serum man!

or I guess he could just bring back the machine guns...




or,

spoilers:

Wakanda outfits him with new Cap suit + wings that are vibranium. That would help. And a nod to the comics

end of spoilers

[CosmiComic]

That's fair. As I said, this is an argument where I see the view of both sides (if you'll excuse a lack of a less tainted phrase).

No, I get what you're saying

I've been beating that drum for awhile.

Even with the wings and the shield... dude is out of his element right now. Give him the serum man!

or I guess he could just bring back the machine guns...




or,

spoilers:

Wakanda outfits him with new Cap suit + wings that are vibranium. That would help. And a nod to the comics

end of spoilers

New vibranium wings would be cool, but frankly I don't see him as relatively underpowered, so much as constantly forced to fight indoors where his powers aren't an advantage. With his guns and Redwing, he should easily be able to go up against any super soldier.

[godisawesome]

I think they made a point of showing he, Bucky, and Walker all three managing to handle the Flash Smashers about equally when he had his jet pack on, even if he only used it occasionally as an improvised weapon, even though Bucky and Walker both had extra vibranium weapons and are super soldiers. Also, like Bucky, he was holding back against the Dora, and still did marginally better than Lemar and Walker. He may not be at Black Widow level fo skill or super soldier strength, but he’s clearly pretty high up there.

Give him the shield for in close fighting, and allow him to still use “wing-fu” against his enemies, and I think he can handle himself well enough to be Steve’s successor.

Y’know how they had Walker put down the shield right before the Dora showed up seemingly to challenge Sam? I’m calling something like that happening again so that Sam proves he can defeat a martially skilled super soldier in hand to hand.

[CosmiComic]

I think they made a point of showing he, Bucky, and Walker all three managing to handle the Flash Smashers about equally when he had his jet pack on, even if he only used it occasionally as an improvised weapon, even though Bucky and Walker both had extra vibranium weapons and are super soldiers. Also, like Bucky, he was holding back against the Dora, and still did marginally better than Lemar and Walker. He may not be at Black Widow level fo skill or super soldier strength, but he’s clearly pretty high up there.

Give him the shield for in close fighting, and allow him to still use “wing-fu” against his enemies, and I think he can handle himself well enough to be Steve’s successor.

Y’know how they had Walker put down the shield right before the Dora showed up seemingly to challenge Sam? I’m calling something like that happening again so that Sam proves he can defeat a martially skilled super soldier in hand to hand.

yeah, I think with the shield, he could be formidable enough to fight against low to mid level enemies (no androids, aliens or wizards though)

[MindofShadow]

I rewatched the last fight and I was a little mean to Sam's fighting skills lol.

But, then again, those are barely trained super soldiers... which is probably why spoilers:

Bucky ran trough them like they were tissue paper and once the Flagsmashers realized Walker was powered, they tried to run. Flagsmashers are more like bullies than trained soldiers

end of spoilers

I'll be looking forward to Sam's transition into Cap next two episodes. It will be interesting. He definitely fits the "good man" requirement.

(can't believe I like MCU Falcon this much when i've always been very meh on comic falcon lol)

[Adam Allen]

I'm certainly divided on spoilers:

Battlestar

end of spoilers dying myself. It's certainly an overused cliche but I can see the argument that it is mitigated by Sam being alive.

It is not just that it's a tired trope that bugged me about it, or even that I don't think it even added anything to the story -- think about it, they've already had Walker looking unstable, they've already *******phed he was going to go bad, he was roughing up a rando in the last episode and earlier this episode wanted to fight Sam just because. It's not like there needed to be some great tragedy to make him turn to the dark side ... I mean, in fact, you already had the ass-kicking from the Dora obviously crush his little world, so ... yeah, just really seemed unnecessary, as far as a plot point.

On top of all that, though ... consider Bucky jumping out of a plane and landing with no injury, consider the fight on the top of moving vehicles, where the laws of physics and objects in motion only apply when the story just wants them to -- ie, the people on top of these speeding trucks are fighting as if they are standing still, rather than moving at high velocity -- and how all four ultimately ended up tossed from these trucks without injury. Hang on, by memory, Sam grabbed Bucky from underneath a moving truck (still defying laws of physics, but whatever) but ... yeah, okay, actually just quick re-watched the end of that scene. Walker and Hoskins were both thrown from the top of a speeding truck, both landing without apparently so much as a strain or a cracked rib.

I'm saying, for all that I realize you have stuff like Nagel getting shot or Karli killing the guards in the building she blew up or whatever, overall the violence in this has been kind of cartoonish -- that is, you don't have people being killed or even taking injury from things they normally would. So spoilers:

having Hoskins suddenly die from a random single blow just struck me as dumb, and ignoring the normal rules established by the narrative. It would be different, even, if she'd at least meant to kill him. But in the same episode where the Dora are whacking people with metal spears without it doing any damage, suddenly this guy randomly dies from a single blow? Nah, that's stupid.

end of spoilers

While I'm at it, though -- this last episode had some line about the Power Broker being upset, because the "golden goose" was dead, and now those last doses were the only ones there ever would be? Well, am I missing something, or was there some explanation given for why Nagel didn't make more serum, in between the time Karli stole the last ones, and his unfortunate meeting with Zemo? Like, what was he doing in that lab, all that time, in between?

For that matter, why was he working completely alone? The Power Broker never saw Breaking Bad? Heisenberg's assistant eventually could do the job totally without him; maybe don't leave all your eggs in one basket?

See, I think the reason it was easier for me to be less critical of WandaVision is that most of it took place in a literally magical sitcom setting, so there was less to stand out as notably unrealistic. This show is set in the real world, and is spanning all over the globe, with lots of real people involved, at least peripherally. If you want me to take it only as serious as I might a cartoon ... okay, then I can be less critical. Throw in random "tragic" deaths ... suspension of disbelief goes out the window.

[Vic Vega]

I've been beating that drum for awhile.

Even with the wings and the shield... dude is out of his element right now. Give him the serum man!

or I guess he could just bring back the machine guns...




or,

spoilers:

Wakanda outfits him with new Cap suit + wings that are vibranium. That would help. And a nod to the comics

end of spoilers

Part of it is that the Writer/Director of this series had deliberately toned down or eliminated the gunplay from Russo Bros. level on principle.

And if they hadn't made that choice, some of those fights we saw would have been over in seconds. I forgot that in Civil War Falcon had shoulder mounted guided missiles and some kind of wrist mounted launcher. In addition to the guns and the weaponized drone.

I guess the in story rationale is they aren't fighting Aliens or Hydra so they decided to dial it down a bit, lol.