Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[Agent Z]

I mean, there's always the Legion. Then again, Bendis would be writing him, Lightning Lad and his sister, are both black now, which is fine, Cosmic Boy is asian now, I don't know who else got raceswapped, but then I look at Dawnstar, who looks like Chief Wahoo's Great x8 Granddaughter, and I just shake my head.

I think Cosmic Boy was one of those characters I thought was non-white when I first saw him. I could see a team-up with the Legion but as a member he'd be redundant with both Cosmic Boy and Lightning Lad.

Personally, I'd put Virgil on a team with either:

* the Heroes cast from Milestone.

* A team of himself, Rubberband Man, Gear, She-Bang and Aquamaria.

* A team based on the Superfriends expies from Young Justice plus Atlee and the Wonder Twins.

Though having either of those teams crossover with the Titans would be nice.

Bendis I think could do okay with Virgil. So long as someone reigns him in.

[Agent Z]

I've been thinking for awhile that they should do a story that ties Shango to all the black lightning users. Since he's the orisha of lightning it would make sense that so many black characters tap into him. It could also be something Wally West has to help give him extra differences to the other speedsters.

I honestly had no idea Shango was even in the DCU. From my research he's apparently met Firestorm.

It would be nice to see him have more of a role I suppose. Maybe a miniseries with himself as the main lead? I don't know about connecting his powers to the other black electrokinetics but I think a story about him selecting a champion of his own could work.

[Anthony Shaw]

T'challa plays off loud, constant chattering characters quite well.

So in the comics and cartoons, he plays off Stark, Hawkeye, Deadpool, Namor, and such quite easily.

IN the movies, it is his sister or even okoye and nakia. And hopefully later... Strange, Parker, Lang, ect. One of the shitty parts of the MCU is that T'challa never got to interact with Stark, even though they were in the same movies 3 times.

Coates never got that side of him at all. Just doom and gloom and depression. Coates just never got it because he doesn't like him.

Priest, Geoff Johns, & Hudlin crafted some epic moments between BP & Iron Man in the comics that I hoped would appear on screen.

T'Challa should be that one character who could keep up with Stark without losing his cool in the MCU.

I was just thinking of how BP would really play off well with various X-Men had the marriage with Storm stuck. BP would have philosophical conversations with Kurt Wagner, be the big brother Peter Rasputin always longed for (warrior/poet), fellow scientist & Avenger with Beast, fellow hunter with Wolverine, a tech mentor to Kate Pryde (provided she never uses the n-word again), and an epic bromance with Cyclops (two poker-faced long term strategists). Non-mutants have fought with the X-Men, and the X-office should have rolled the dice. I think BP would have been a more interesting foil for the X-Men than Namor during that time, imo.

Black Panther is a fantasy character, and it makes no sense to present him as pitiful.

The box office gross reflected what non-comic fans saw: that BP is a character of endless possibilities.

Marvel got a lot of characters looking pitiful in the books.

[Anthony Shaw]

Blue Beetle and Static should be the new Blue and Gold and both should be staple member of the Teen Titans.

I just want them high profile. If they brought back All-stars I wouldn't mind them being the JSAs protégé team.

Toss Jakeem Thunder, and Cass Cain on that team too.

I'd have her switch her mentor to Wildcat.

See, this is what I'm talking about. A little bit creativity to enhance these characters could go a long way.

It would have made sense for a member of the JSA to take these kids, and train them.

Instead, most of them are are limbo.

[Nate Grey]

Jaime actually was optioned for a TV show at one point. I might be remembering wrong, but I think they even shot test footage.

This?

[Overhazard]

I think Cosmic Boy was one of those characters I thought was non-white when I first saw him. I could see a team-up with the Legion but as a member he'd be redundant with both Cosmic Boy and Lightning Lad.

Personally, I'd put Virgil on a team with either:

* the Heroes cast from Milestone.

* A team of himself, Rubberband Man, Gear, She-Bang and Aquamaria.

* A team based on the Superfriends expies from Young Justice plus Atlee and the Wonder Twins.

Though having either of those teams crossover with the Titans would be nice.

Bendis I think could do okay with Virgil. So long as someone reigns him in.

No more redundant than Mon-El, Superboy, Supergirl, and Ultra Boy, but I get what you mean. Though I do agree, Bendis needs a co-writer or an editor to keep him from letting his ideas get too out there.

[J. D. Guy]

All this talk makes me miss Kenan Kong even more. He was the New Super-Man for those who don't remember. I liked his character, really liked his costume, the Justice League of China was really interesting to read about too. Now that Jon's a teenager and Connor's back Ill probably never see him again.

As far as I'm concerned, New Super-Man and the Justice League of China had longform, permanent ongoing potential. And that's how it should have stayed. Kong Kenan and all of his found family that he slowly surrounds himself with were all treasures. Their existence being so brief that so many potential readers would have missed out on is huge shame.

[godisawesome]

...okay, I kind of want to broach this subject here...

...But does anybody else think that LFL might have had an internal backlash against Rey and Finn’s friendship and vaguely pseudo-romantic interactions in The Force Awakens, and that backlash screwed both characters over in the process?

Like, I think Finn got screwed over more generally by LFL wanting to make Kylo Ren the male lead over Finn, and market Driver over Boyega... but the way TLJ outright refuses to have Rey and Finn exchange any dialogue, doesn’t have Rey bring up Finn’s maiming by Kylo in TFA*, seems to primarily bring in the character of Rose just to be a non-Rey love interest for Finn all feel like going above and beyond that purpose to intentionally try and estrange and separate Rey and Finn entirely.

*(Yes, they also ignored the sexual assault allegory between Rey and Kylo in the interrogation scene, but at least Rey is talking to Kylo and Han’s death is brought up... if obfuscated and responded to in a psychotic way that Rey is supposed to accept.)

And the way LFL has insisted on portraying Finn’s past as a comedic janitor over an enslaved and dehumanized stormtrooper, and the way that Colin Trevorrow’s Duel of the Fates script seemed to think that Poe as Rey’s romance option before TROS went right back to disgusting Reylo antics... and the fact that LFL seems to have twice submitted Adam Driver for award consideration over Boyega even as Boyega shoots more scenes and does more marketing...

Like, I don’t see LFL having an explicit and consciously racist intent, but am I wrong to think accidental and passive racism played a part in screwing Boyega over?

[Overhazard]

...okay, I kind of want to broach this subject here...

...But does anybody else think that LFL might have had an internal backlash against Rey and Finn’s friendship and vaguely pseudo-romantic interactions in The Force Awakens, and that backlash screwed both characters over in the process?

Like, I think Finn got screwed over more generally by LFL wanting to make Kylo Ren the male lead over Finn, and market Driver over Boyega... but the way TLJ outright refuses to have Rey and Finn exchange any dialogue, doesn’t have Rey bring up Finn’s maiming by Kylo in TFA*, seems to primarily bring in the character of Rose just to be a non-Rey love interest for Finn all feel like going above and beyond that purpose to intentionally try and estrange and separate Rey and Finn entirely.

*(Yes, they also ignored the sexual assault allegory between Rey and Kylo in the interrogation scene, but at least Rey is talking to Kylo and Han’s death is brought up... if obfuscated and responded to in a psychotic way that Rey is supposed to accept.)

And the way LFL has insisted on portraying Finn’s past as a comedic janitor over an enslaved and dehumanized stormtrooper, and the way that Colin Trevorrow’s Duel of the Fates script seemed to think that Poe as Rey’s romance option before TROS went right back to disgusting Reylo antics... and the fact that LFL seems to have twice submitted Adam Driver for award consideration over Boyega even as Boyega shoots more scenes and does more marketing...

Like, I don’t see LFL having an explicit and consciously racist intent, but am I wrong to think accidental and passive racism played a part in screwing Boyega over?

Finn. finn, finn, finn, fiiinnnnnnn.

It wasn't accidental or passive. They downplayed Finn because they wanted the movies to do well in China. Star Wars is not popular in China.

There are a lot of things that bother me about Finn in these movies.

1. He's a bumbling dolt. He drives the entire plot of the Force Awakens, but he bumbles around, gets beaten up a lot, and he doesn't get a hero moment. Beating that trooper with the club should have been his moment. I didn't need him to outshine Rey, I just needed to see him actually beat someone in a fight.

2. The Last Jedi has Finn go through the exact same character arc as in TFA, because Rian Johnson was so busy subverting expectations he didn't know what to do with him. He starts the movie as a selfish coward who wants to run away, but the actions of his friends, particularly the girl he meets at the start of his journey inspires him to be brave. The exact. same. arc. He also gets a lecture from Rose about how bad war is. A black man who is a former brainwashed child soldier gets a lecture on the horrors of war and slavery.

Finn had so much potential, and they flushed it down the toilet, and that really stinks.

[Robotman]

Blue Beetle and Static should be the new Blue and Gold and both should be staple member of the Teen Titans.

That would be amazing. I loved that Teen Titans lineup that they were on.

DC has characters that could rival Kamala Khan in popularity but they just tend to burry these characters for years at a time.

[godisawesome]

Finn. finn, finn, finn, fiiinnnnnnn.

It wasn't accidental or passive. They downplayed Finn because they wanted the movies to do well in China. Star Wars is not popular in China.

There are a lot of things that bother me about Finn in these movies.

1. He's a bumbling dolt. He drives the entire plot of the Force Awakens, but he bumbles around, gets beaten up a lot, and he doesn't get a hero moment. Beating that trooper with the club should have been his moment. I didn't need him to outshine Rey, I just needed to see him actually beat someone in a fight.

2. The Last Jedi has Finn go through the exact same character arc as in TFA, because Rian Johnson was so busy subverting expectations he didn't know what to do with him. He starts the movie as a selfish coward who wants to run away, but the actions of his friends, particularly the girl he meets at the start of his journey inspires him to be brave. The exact. same. arc. He also gets a lecture from Rose about how bad war is. A black man who is a former brainwashed child soldier gets a lecture on the horrors of war and slavery.

Finn had so much potential, and they flushed it down the toilet, and that really stinks.

I’ll confess that I sometimes look over some of Finn’s more humiliating and the more unfortunate implications of his TFA story because he’s my favorite character in the film, trilogy, and pretty close to one. For the entire Disney Era just because I love the concept and character arc he goes through - the fact I like to argue that he’s the main reason Starkiller Base blows up and is “losing the battles but winning the war” in the film doesn’t really overcome the issues with giving him so many comedic parts that are set-up to have him be laughed at rather than laughed with, and that he really should have had some convincing win in the film to offset his more humble aspects.

One of the weird things about TLJ, though, is it *does* give him a physical victory over an opponent in Phasma... but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone express positive vibes about that.

I think too many people are able to detect that Boyega and Christie are both a bit too skilled as both thespians and theatrical combatants for the unambitiously choreographed and scripted conflict between them. The whole thing feels like a lazily thrown bone of obligation towards characters that neither Johnson nor LFL are particularly interested in. In concept, it’s an escaped slave soldier using a cool new weapon that was meme-worthy in the last film to take on one of his “overseers”, and the characters are supposed to be the deuteragonist of the Trilogy and the head of the entire Stormtrooper branch and a peer of Kylo and Hux... and yet, it’s a rushed fight won by contrived luck that has only had five minutes of buildup in an ancillary side-story, matched with cheesy dialogue and ultimately lacking any impact on the main conflicts of the film.

I still think the character is respected more in TFA, as flawed as it is, just because Finn is still a significant and primary character there, even though TLJ gives him a win, because he’s mostly given a skippable story in TLJ both for his development and for the film’s main focuses.

I do want to point this out though: I don’t think Finn’s receding role in the films was about China - not in bulk, at any rate.

Don’t get me wrong; they clearly lowered his profile in the TFA posters likely out of fear about racism in China... but at no point did any of the ST films do well in China anyway, and it wasn’t just the internationally released films that downplayed and dismissed Finn - LFL’s secondary and tertiary products were just as condescending towards him as well, and considering how pretty much all of the major award circuits are located in the western world, LFL repeatedly insisting on putting Driver down as their preferred male actor... it feels like his dismissal and ill-treatment has more to do with Western prejudices than Easter ones.

Kelly Marie Tran had to put up with some horrible bullshit from all over the internet for playing Rose, and I think it’s good people have defended her and lambasted the racists and jackasses who went after her...

...But I also think there’s a massive hypocrisy when far fewer media outlets pointed out Boyega getting attacked well past TFA’s release *and* getting screwed over by the films, and I think some of that silence is because the main beneficiary of Boyega’s crap was Adam Driver’s Kylo Ren, who we can kind of tell a lot of people were willing to screw Rey over for as well.

[MindofShadow]

Finn was the biggest miss opportunity in SW history and it isn't even close. Even ignoring the chance to drag in a whole demographic of new star wars fans (black folk. not even given a chance to drag in but outright TRICK and piss off after the fact. China is a lost cause, the SW movies don't click with them and never will). Even ignoring that the actor actually loves (loved?) SW.

A former Storm trooper who breaks his programming to lead a rebellion against the Empire... err I mean First Order and is force sensitive has so much story potential. His story could have been focused on freeing of his comrads and try to free them from slavery.... errr programming instead of some huge planet destorying war ****.

Also, imagine the force leading Finn to Luke and his small academy... and Finn had the more selfish goal of saving his slave buddies vs "defeating the First Order planet busting" ****. Would luke the jedi still want to train him? Is that goal too selfish and would lead to hte dark side? Would luke feel a kindred spirit with Finn because Luke just wanted to save his friends too?

But I mean... having a story about a evil empier that has a planet destroyer that hsa to be stopped by a youngin with no mom and dad from a dessert planet and an old mentor is killed by an evil dude in a black suit and mask and the hero saves the day in the end by tapping into the force to defeat this black suited dude who is really controlled by an old creepy guy is cool too.


but anyway, KK had no freaking idea what she wanted to do with the trilogy and it shows. How did she even get in that spot anyway? How can Iger see what Fiege is doing with MCU and then turn around na dhire someone who can't even plan 3 movies out spread over 7 years?

[KOSLOX]

Finn was the biggest miss opportunity in SW history and it isn't even close. Even ignoring the chance to drag in a whole demographic of new star wars fans (black folk. not even given a chance to drag in but outright TRICK and piss off after the fact. China is a lost cause, the SW movies don't click with them and never will). Even ignoring that the actor actually loves (loved?) SW.

A former Storm trooper who breaks his programming to lead a rebellion against the Empire... err I mean First Order and is force sensitive has so much story potential. His story could have been focused on freeing of his comrads and try to free them from slavery.... errr programming instead of some huge planet destorying war ****.

Also, imagine the force leading Finn to Luke and his small academy... and Finn had the more selfish goal of saving his slave buddies vs "defeating the First Order planet busting" ****. Would luke the jedi still want to train him? Is that goal too selfish and would lead to hte dark side? Would luke feel a kindred spirit with Finn because Luke just wanted to save his friends too?

But I mean... having a story about a evil empier that has a planet destroyer that hsa to be stopped by a youngin with no mom and dad from a dessert planet and an old mentor is killed by an evil dude in a black suit and mask and the hero saves the day in the end by tapping into the force to defeat this black suited dude who is really controlled by an old creepy guy is cool too.


but anyway, KK had no freaking idea what she wanted to do with the trilogy and it shows. How did she even get in that spot anyway? How can Iger see what Fiege is doing with MCU and then turn around na dhire someone who can't even plan 3 movies out spread over 7 years?

Dave Filoni seems like the person that should be directing the Star Wars Universe general direction. That's my pick for the "Fiege" of Star Wars.

[Starter Set]

Finn was the biggest miss opportunity in SW history and it isn't even close

No question. That's so frustrating. Good actor, great concept and we end up with a fool just capable of shooting "Rey!! Rey!!".

His destiny as former trooper to lead an uprising, his rivalry with Phasma, his potential as force user, hell, even his bromance with Poe, all wasted.

[Vic Vega]

WTF is wrong with me and time management, I have GOT to sit through GET OUT properly at some point real soon. I think Daniel Kaluuya is cool as hell, I mean I've seen Sicario like half a dozen times if it counts.



^Speaking of chick, I think we missed a piece of news.



I mean... I feel it's a quasi-sincere apology, on it's face... Unlike that nose in the movie but she went so hard about it.

I blame Saldana way less than I blame the creators who willfully cast her.

Not only did Simone want Whoopi Goldberg to play her, not only does Whoopi physically resemble her somewhat, she even sings on top of all that.

There's a disconnect when the Producers cast a slim light skinned woman to portray a woman who was notably none of those things.

It's surprising they didn't expect pushback.