Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[Overhazard]

People say they prefer manga, because according to them, the medium is not "woke" and filled with "politics" . This is false though.

When people make this argument, I always point to One Piece's fishman island arc, which is literally about racism, slavery, and discrimination. The world government is also insanely corrupt.

The entire ethos of mobile suit Gundam is "War is bad.". Kamen Rider was fighting a terrorist organization that was trying to make biological weapons.

[mathew101281]

When people make this argument, I always point to One Piece's fishman island arc, which is literally about racism, slavery, and discrimination. The world government is also insanely corrupt.

The entire ethos of mobile suit Gundam is "War is bad.". Kamen Rider was fighting a terrorist organization that was trying to make biological weapons.

Then they will say their is a difference between political themes and “wokeness” and then you’ll ask them to explain the difference, and then they’ll give you some wishywashy answer.

[Ragged Maw]

Then they will say their is a difference between political themes and “wokeness” and then you’ll ask them to explain the difference, and then they’ll give you some wishywashy answer.

"Wokeness" is probably referring to hard left stances towards hot-button social issues currently frequenting news and social media.

[godisawesome]

When people make this argument, I always point to One Piece's fishman island arc, which is literally about racism, slavery, and discrimination. The world government is also insanely corrupt.

The entire ethos of mobile suit Gundam is "War is bad.". Kamen Rider was fighting a terrorist organization that was trying to make biological weapons.

To point this out, I think people severely overestimate the applicability of metaphorical lessons or comparisons in fiction - it doesn’t matter how much having Fran Gorshin play a black-and-white alien being racist towards another black-and-white alien seems to completely distill racism ridiculousness to its finest form, human prejudices and biases are far too strong, fluid, and myopic for it to have the same impact as a more “realistic” and mundane examples of inclusion, diversity, or political commentary taken from the real world.

Star Trek and Star Wars most prove the point in Western media: no matter how much those two could bluntly point things out with rubber foreheads and full body fur suits, plenty of racists could just restrict the applicability in their eyes to soemthing they already considered “okay” - especially since racism is always amorphous and shifting to ensure a majority feels like majority. And the same applies to politics and gender as well

It’s why John Boyega got attacked when technically he’s the second escaped slave character to be a major part of the cast after Chewbacca, why Ingram is getting attacked when she’s far from an unusual type of Star Wars character, and why some fans lose their **** when you use the phrase “Nazi” to describe Kylo Ren.

"Wokeness" is probably referring to hard left stances towards hot-button social issues currently frequenting news and social media.

It’s hardly “hard left” if it can be summarized as either “just don’t be a dick” when referring to real world issues and people, and especially when it’s “I really want to cast this skilled actor or actress in this role and show this POV’s differences over here, m’kay?”

“Just don’t be a dick” is the subtextual message of most “politically correct” or “woke” speech - and the inferred accusation is what catches in people’s draws. Mature people who can realize they spoke form a p,ace of ignorance or habit can roll with it and adjust accordingly. Immature and arrogant people will feel insulted and myopically seek to defend their pride while still being a dick… supporting the self-righteous and blatantly biased people who want to be a dick because that’s what they think the right thing to do is.

[Username taken]

One Piece is a lot more progressive and "woke" than most American superhero comics.

Whether it's the depiction of slavery, obvious critique of the class system, or queer characters, One Piece is a reasonably progressive work. Granted Oda's portrayal of LGBT people veers into the bizarre (and frankly problematic), it's pretty clear where the author stands on the issue. Manga has a whole LGBT sub-genre that has existed for decades. If the focus is on shonen manga (which is just another subset of manga) then that's a different discussion altogether. But the 1 to 1 comparison between American superhero comics to Manga doesn't really work.

The problem is that most of the guys that praise manga for not being woke are political commentators disguised as geeks. They aren't really well informed of the things they are talking about. I mean, some of these guys were complaining about "Sandman" being woke. Complaining about Sandman (or any Vertigo title) as being too progressive is like complaining that Romeo and Juliet is too romantic.

[Agent Z]

One Piece, like with many shonen manga and anime, is rather backwards when it comes to women in some regards and it is only recently that their depictions of racial minorities have started to improve. To say nothing of how stuff like sexual harassment and sexualization of teens gets handled. It isn't perfect and neither are western comics.

I'm neither Japanese nor American, just to clarify I have no bias for either.

[MindofShadow]

It’s why John Boyega got attacked when technically he’s the second escaped slave character to be a major part of the cast after Chewbacca, why Ingram is getting attacked when she’s far from an unusual type of Star Wars character, and why some fans lose their **** when you use the phrase “Nazi” to describe Kylo Ren.

LOL!

Bring up that in canon (or was canon, can't tell with Disney anymore) that Count Dooku was an out and out supremacist and the SW population starts to lose their mines a bit. "Well actually....!"

They also have a weird hate boner for Mace lol

To say nothing of how stuff like sexual harassment and sexualization of teens gets handled. .

That is an understatement lol

[Username taken]

One Piece, like with many shonen manga and anime, is rather backwards when it comes to women in some regards and it is only recently that their depictions of racial minorities have started to improve. To say nothing of how stuff like sexual harassment and sexualization of teens gets handled. It isn't perfect and neither are western comics.

I'm neither Japanese nor American, just to clarify I have no bias for either.

Shonen Manga does have problematic elements. Seven Deadly Sins is a classic example when it comes to its depiction of sexual assault and trivialization of it. Sexualization of under age girls is a massive problem in a lot of manga and anime for decades now. The whole “loli” phenomenon is based off sexualization of underage girls which is absolutely disgusting. Heck, some mangakas have been arrested for child pornography, so it’s not some innocent phenomenon that some American fans so desperately try to make it seem.

My earlier point was how political commentators in the west label everything that features minorities of any kind as woke. It’s no longer about the politics of the media, it’s now people simply attacking the existence of minority characters. If One Piece were an American series, the inclusion of Ivankov as a hero and supporter of the straw hats would be labeled as the series going woke. The entire inclusion of the Okama Kingdom would most likely have caused an uproar in conservative circles because people are now equating gay people to child abusers and groomers.

[skyvolt2000]

One Piece is a lot more progressive and "woke" than most American superhero comics.

Whether it's the depiction of slavery, obvious critique of the class system, or queer characters, One Piece is a reasonably progressive work. Granted Oda's portrayal of LGBT people veers into the bizarre (and frankly problematic), it's pretty clear where the author stands on the issue. Manga has a whole LGBT sub-genre that has existed for decades. If the focus is on shonen manga (which is just another subset of manga) then that's a different discussion altogether. But the 1 to 1 comparison between American superhero comics to Manga doesn't really work.

The problem is that most of the guys that praise manga for not being woke are political commentators disguised as geeks. They aren't really well informed of the things they are talking about. I mean, some of these guys were complaining about "Sandman" being woke. Complaining about Sandman (or any Vertigo title) as being too progressive is like complaining that Romeo and Juliet is too romantic.

Easy ask those folks what is their favorite story and I bet they can't. Because they never read the books.

If they hated Sandman-they would have gone NUTS over Scalped or 100 Bullets.

Also how much of that manga have black folks in it? I am sure that is a reason some say it's not woke. Because can't have issues with manga where EVERYONE is Asian and most books have no issue showing Asian culture unlike 1992 Sailor Moon cartoon that tried to censor it and Robotech's Southern Cross which was about French folks on another planet.

[Vic Vega]

I am once again reminded of the character Rue in the Hunger Games, who came from the sharecropping District. But the audience upon seeing the movie insisted she was White to the point where the author herself was like WTF?

These people for years have been self inserting White character into every character that wasn't explicitly a Wookie or Tree Person or something. It's to the point where whenever they get told otherwise they cry foul.

Look what happened to the Percy Jackson author. I bet the Spielberg version of West Side Story confused the hell out of them (the older ones, anyway).

[Material Flux]

LOL!
They also have a weird hate boner for Mace lol

What's even funnier is that when this thing with Reva started, these same folks were like started bringing up how much they liked Mace as a shield...

[Agent Z]

LOL!

Bring up that in canon (or was canon, can't tell with Disney anymore) that Count Dooku was an out and out supremacist and the SW population starts to lose their mines a bit. "Well actually....!"

They also have a weird hate boner for Mace lol




That is an understatement lol

People hated Mace? I didn't even think it wss scientifically possible to hate a character played by Samuel L. Jackson.

[Frontier]

People hated Mace? I didn't even think it wss scientifically possible to hate a character played by Samuel L. Jackson.

I mean...he was kind of a dick and ended up representing the worst of the Prequel Jedi even if he was still a good guy.

[MindofShadow]

People hated Mace? I didn't even think it wss scientifically possible to hate a character played by Samuel L. Jackson.

bring up Mace beat Palpatine and you will get a 10000 comment thread out of it.

Despite Lucas, you know, the guy that wrote it and such, saying Mace 100% beat him.

It starts are fan theory on why Lucas was wrong and de-evolves into... worse lol


Hate is a strong word... bias's start to come out the longer it goes on.

[MindofShadow]

I mean...he was kind of a dick and ended up representing the worst of the Prequel Jedi even if he was still a good guy.

See, I always thought Yoda was the worst one. Its been a long time since I watched those bad movies though lol.

Mace was at least kinda blunt and dickish about the whole thing and really didn't trust the Chancellor and how close he was to Anakan.

From memory, Anakan straight up asked Yoda for help with is dreams and Yoda went, "lol just stop bruh" in Yoda speak.