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  1. #3436
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Hulkverine is actually pretty stupid fun, way better than it should be lol
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  2. #3437
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Hulkverine is actually pretty stupid fun, way better than it should be lol
    It helps to have good writers behind silly concepts, can turn into the best of comics.
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  3. #3438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Majestic View Post
    The Chinese population are pretty cool with LGBTTIQQ2SA(Dagnabbit that's just too damned long), especially the younger generation but the PROC is very much on the fence about it so NO is their knee-jerk answer to any such situation involving LGBTTIQQ2SA... Seriously they gotta figure out something more succinct. Brevity is something to shoot for. Easy to put on a placard, easy to shout...



    On the flipside I loathe OP Mary Sue/Gary Stu minority characters. So only White characters get to be well developed and three dimensional with faults and weaknesses? I want my heroes to lose only to come back better than ever. IMHO Carol Danvers was a fail because all she did was win. T'challa on the other hand was defeated by Killmonger but then returned with friends in tow.

    I disliked Blue Marvel but loved Icon. Making a new character OP is a mistake a lot of writers make to get fans to tune in just like turning a character into some Don Juan/Casanova type. Case in point when they turn Wolverine into some mack daddy, the guy's 5'3", unsociable and probably smells real bad. How many characters has he hooked up with? Jean Grey, Storm, Viper, Domino, Mystique, Rogue, Silver Fox, Red Sonja, Elektra, Witchblade, Black Cat, Lady Deathstrike, Snowbird, Invisible Woman(?), Squirrel Girl(?!), Gaea(?!?)and Hercules.
    1st, A canon character can't a Mary Sue, Gary Stu. 2nd, the fact that it's always points to black characters being in the same level as white characters to be considered a OP just shows to the idea of how people hate POC's being reflected as among the strongest, fastest, most powerful etc. Third, not all characters is meant for everyone. You have your preferences and that's fine, but you not liking Carol Doesn't change the fact that she's currently the most popular female super hero in the main stream universe primarily because of that movie where she did win.

    So again, different strokes for different folks.

  4. #3439
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Hulkverine is actually pretty stupid fun, way better than it should be lol
    Oh don't get me wrong, I've been picking up the series just because of how stupid fun it is lol. I'm just saying how this guy can have the ability of both the hulk and wolverine and yet monica gets nerf because she's too powerful just speaks the comics problems regarding having high tier POC characters.

  5. #3440
    MYTH SMITH ∞ !!! G. Boney's Avatar
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    ^I Posted a little while back about the updates happening with my previously released comics (new colors, lettering, etc). Well, finally got that done and Double Dose #1 and Myth Smith #0 are off to the printer, gearing up for Free Comic Book Day.



    ^A panel from Myth Smith #1, which is still in the process of being colored...
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  6. #3441
    Dorky Person Charmed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    1st, A canon character can't a Mary Sue, Gary Stu. 2nd, the fact that it's always points to black characters being in the same level as white characters to be considered a OP just shows to the idea of how people hate POC's being reflected as among the strongest, fastest, most powerful etc. Third, not all characters is meant for everyone. You have your preferences and that's fine, but you not liking Carol Doesn't change the fact that she's currently the most popular female super hero in the main stream universe primarily because of that movie where she did win.

    So again, different strokes for different folks.
    This. As far as I'm concerned a Mary Sue character (and, for me, Mary Sue is a gender neutral term, though it does irritate me how most negative terms always have female names, but such is English) is a character that can only exist in fanfiction. Canon characters who share many of the traits of Mary Sues, traits which many people can't seem to agree on, are flat characters or author inserts.

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  7. #3442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Whoa. Wait. Is this the Kurt Busiek?
    Yeah, he's been posting here for years. If you're interested, over at the Marvel Comics sub-board there's this thread Ask Kurt Busiek!, which currently has 26 pages worth of him answering several fan questions.

  8. #3443
    Incredible Member Mr.Majestic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    A canon character can't a Mary Sue, Gary Stu.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed View Post
    This. As far as I'm concerned a Mary Sue character is a character that can only exist in fanfiction. Canon characters who share many of the traits of Mary Sues, traits which many people can't seem to agree on, are flat characters or author inserts.
    I'd like to strongly disagree. Firstly not only can canon characters be Mary Sue's but they can also start off as non-Mary Sue's and become one eventually. Superman was not always OP but by the time the Silver Age rolled around he was insanely overpowered and a full on Mary Sue. A combination of super-strength, speed, intelligence and invulnerability which could only be countered by a super-rare alien ore was insane. Have you guys checked out how they turned Black Lightning into one as well in the last few years? Let's not mention Squirrel-Girl.

    Mary Sue's are either created or frankenstein'ed into one in major publications due to crappy editors not reining in their writers. That's been one of my major beefs against DC and Marvel, how they've de-powered their editors and let their "star" writers retcon characters willy-nilly and pay no attention to power-creep(video-game term).

    Finally making minority characters OP annoys the heckins outta me. It's like, no one will read this character because he's Black/female/Asian/Latinx. What'll we do? I know, let's make him the smartest/strongest/bestest(boringest) character! Just make an interesting well-written character guys.

  9. #3444
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Majestic View Post
    I'd like to strongly disagree. Firstly not only can canon characters be Mary Sue's but they can also start off as non-Mary Sue's and become one eventually. Superman was not always OP but by the time the Silver Age rolled around he was insanely overpowered and a full on Mary Sue. A combination of super-strength, speed, intelligence and invulnerability which could only be countered by a super-rare alien ore was insane. Have you guys checked out how they turned Black Lightning into one as well in the last few years? Let's not mention Squirrel-Girl.

    Mary Sue's are either created or frankenstein'ed into one in major publications due to crappy editors not reining in their writers. That's been one of my major beefs against DC and Marvel, how they've de-powered their editors and let their "star" writers retcon characters willy-nilly and pay no attention to power-creep(video-game term).

    Finally making minority characters OP annoys the heckins outta me. It's like, no one will read this character because he's Black/female/Asian/Latinx. What'll we do? I know, let's make him the smartest/strongest/bestest(boringest) character! Just make an interesting well-written character guys.
    That's not how I understand the term Mary Sue, but feel free to use that as your head canon.
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  10. #3445
    Unadjusted Human on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Majestic View Post
    I'd like to strongly disagree. Firstly not only can canon characters be Mary Sue's but they can also start off as non-Mary Sue's and become one eventually. Superman was not always OP but by the time the Silver Age rolled around he was insanely overpowered and a full on Mary Sue. A combination of super-strength, speed, intelligence and invulnerability which could only be countered by a super-rare alien ore was insane. Have you guys checked out how they turned Black Lightning into one as well in the last few years? Let's not mention Squirrel-Girl.

    Mary Sue's are either created or frankenstein'ed into one in major publications due to crappy editors not reining in their writers. That's been one of my major beefs against DC and Marvel, how they've de-powered their editors and let their "star" writers retcon characters willy-nilly and pay no attention to power-creep(video-game term).

    Finally making minority characters OP annoys the heckins outta me. It's like, no one will read this character because he's Black/female/Asian/Latinx. What'll we do? I know, let's make him the smartest/strongest/bestest(boringest) character! Just make an interesting well-written character guys.
    A big problem with giving editors way too much power is they can choke off creativity basically and cause stagnation.t A fact that Marvel saw this happen with the X-Men in the 1990's/early 2000's. It also reared again and hurt things as well. Some examples ...


    - In the early 1990's Chris Claremont left the X-Men books (which really he needed a few months off...to recharge etc sure) due to editors rejecting plans he had long term and deciding to go with Jim Lee. While not a bad decision at 1st since Jim Lee was a "hot" artist at the time and juicing sales big ; Lee wasn't gonna stick long term. There was rotating writers at one point of Fabian Nicieza , Jim Lee and John Byrne for 7 issues. All 3 wrote stories and Byrne likely saw how strict things was and jumped off.

    Its said this was the famous deal now where Bob Harras was in a spot as he walked up to a young Scott Lobdell and told him he needed an X-Men story for Uncanny . Lobdell claimed he was just someone working there and didn't have much of a career and suddenly he was told to write X-Men stories and did by luck for 5 years. But things never could progress like plots like the Legacy Virus that dragged for years or Angel getting his real wings back with no explanation etc. The editors was afraid to make huge changes and ran strict guidelines on X-Men.


    - After Lobdell grew tired of the strictness of editors on X-Men (and writing both books for 5 years is demanding) they took 2 of their hottest writers in 1997/1998 on the X-Men books. Joe Kelly and Steve Seagle each were given the books after runs on Deadpool and Alpha Flight. Within 15 issues they were off them as they both would later claim editorial was a big problem.


    - In the 2000's after aborted runs by Ralph Macchio and Joe Casey ; Chuck Austen was given the Uncanny book. Now as Austen claimed once he came on things were very loose and he had few edicts from editors. But as the run continued Austen claims it got worse...as he was given more things he couldn't do . Its one of the reasons he left the books after 2-3 years.


    Now things have slacked on X-Men given that Bendis was allowed to make changes and moves with X-Men. But for a good number of years things was stuck. That is just the X-Men. Rob Liefield claimed years back his rotating editors on Hawkman was a mess. Each one demanding something different. John Rozum who co-wrote Static Shock fired back at critics after he had quit the book after 4 issues (it was cancelled after issue #8) claiming the editor (Harvey Richards) benched him in favor of listening more to newbie writer Scott McDaniel.


    So there is always an issue with giving editors too much power. They can worry more about keeping things in place and not hurting sales or just driving writers off repeatedly by demands.
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  11. #3446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Majestic View Post
    I'd like to strongly disagree. Firstly not only can canon characters be Mary Sue's but they can also start off as non-Mary Sue's and become one eventually. Superman was not always OP but by the time the Silver Age rolled around he was insanely overpowered and a full on Mary Sue. A combination of super-strength, speed, intelligence and invulnerability which could only be countered by a super-rare alien ore was insane. Have you guys checked out how they turned Black Lightning into one as well in the last few years? Let's not mention Squirrel-Girl.

    Mary Sue's are either created or frankenstein'ed into one in major publications due to crappy editors not reining in their writers. That's been one of my major beefs against DC and Marvel, how they've de-powered their editors and let their "star" writers retcon characters willy-nilly and pay no attention to power-creep(video-game term).

    Finally making minority characters OP annoys the heckins outta me. It's like, no one will read this character because he's Black/female/Asian/Latinx. What'll we do? I know, let's make him the smartest/strongest/bestest(boringest) character! Just make an interesting well-written character guys.
    "Mary Sue" is a misused term. It supposed to be used to describe a writer insert character who outclasses and is beloved by the canon characters. It doesn't mean any character who is overpowered.

  12. #3447
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    "Mary Sue" is a misused term. It supposed to be used to describe a writer insert character who outclasses and is beloved by the canon characters. It doesn't mean any character who is overpowered.
    "new character overpowered for no reason/without working for it" seems to be the new definition.

    Need a new term. Call it "The Rey" or something lol
    Last edited by MindofShadow; 04-22-2019 at 06:06 AM.
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  13. #3448
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    I feel like "Mary Sue" is one of those terms that has been misused so often on the net that it has ceased to have any meaning. See also "edgelord".
    Last edited by Agent Z; 04-22-2019 at 07:26 AM.

  14. #3449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Majestic View Post
    I'd like to strongly disagree. Firstly not only can canon characters be Mary Sue's but they can also start off as non-Mary Sue's and become one eventually. Superman was not always OP but by the time the Silver Age rolled around he was insanely overpowered and a full on Mary Sue. A combination of super-strength, speed, intelligence and invulnerability which could only be countered by a super-rare alien ore was insane. Have you guys checked out how they turned Black Lightning into one as well in the last few years? Let's not mention Squirrel-Girl.

    Mary Sue's are either created or frankenstein'ed into one in major publications due to crappy editors not reining in their writers. That's been one of my major beefs against DC and Marvel, how they've de-powered their editors and let their "star" writers retcon characters willy-nilly and pay no attention to power-creep(video-game term).

    Finally making minority characters OP annoys the heckins outta me. It's like, no one will read this character because he's Black/female/Asian/Latinx. What'll we do? I know, let's make him the smartest/strongest/bestest(boringest) character! Just make an interesting well-written character guys.
    Well the definition of Mary Sue ties specifically to the self insert near perfect character "in fanfiction." It has nothing to do with overpowered. If you have an issue with characters being overpowered in your opinion than that's certainly your right to do so, but it's still not a mary sue. People interchange the two words as if they share the same meaning when a Mary Sue has specific ties to fan fiction.

    And again, making characters OP can annoy you, that's not a problem. That just means you aren't the targeted market that they're looking for. Just like how superman isn't for everyone, batman isn't for everyone either. So to expect all characters to fit your taste buds seems extremely unrealistic. Just like how you didn't like Captain Marvel, she's the most popular female superhero currently in the mainstream media. So that's safe to say that just means "different strokes for different folks."

    With that said, what's not cool is to expect all characters to fit your taste. If people prefer characters who to you appear overpowered, let them enjoy those characters. There's no reason to try and conform every single character out there to match your taste.
    Last edited by leo619; 04-22-2019 at 08:29 AM.

  15. #3450
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    If there is one possible advantage to powering down non white characters, it that it can maybe take some heat from racist white fans off their back. But given what such people are like they'd just look for another reason to hate them.

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