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  1. #3451
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    I feel like "Mary Sue" is one of those terms that has been misused so often on the net that it has ceased to have any meaning. See also "edgelord".
    Last edited by Agent Z; Yesterday at 07:26 AM.

  2. #3452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Majestic View Post
    I'd like to strongly disagree. Firstly not only can canon characters be Mary Sue's but they can also start off as non-Mary Sue's and become one eventually. Superman was not always OP but by the time the Silver Age rolled around he was insanely overpowered and a full on Mary Sue. A combination of super-strength, speed, intelligence and invulnerability which could only be countered by a super-rare alien ore was insane. Have you guys checked out how they turned Black Lightning into one as well in the last few years? Let's not mention Squirrel-Girl.

    Mary Sue's are either created or frankenstein'ed into one in major publications due to crappy editors not reining in their writers. That's been one of my major beefs against DC and Marvel, how they've de-powered their editors and let their "star" writers retcon characters willy-nilly and pay no attention to power-creep(video-game term).

    Finally making minority characters OP annoys the heckins outta me. It's like, no one will read this character because he's Black/female/Asian/Latinx. What'll we do? I know, let's make him the smartest/strongest/bestest(boringest) character! Just make an interesting well-written character guys.
    Well the definition of Mary Sue ties specifically to the self insert near perfect character "in fanfiction." It has nothing to do with overpowered. If you have an issue with characters being overpowered in your opinion than that's certainly your right to do so, but it's still not a mary sue. People interchange the two words as if they share the same meaning when a Mary Sue has specific ties to fan fiction.

    And again, making characters OP can annoy you, that's not a problem. That just means you aren't the targeted market that they're looking for. Just like how superman isn't for everyone, batman isn't for everyone either. So to expect all characters to fit your taste buds seems extremely unrealistic. Just like how you didn't like Captain Marvel, she's the most popular female superhero currently in the mainstream media. So that's safe to say that just means "different strokes for different folks."

    With that said, what's not cool is to expect all characters to fit your taste. If people prefer characters who to you appear overpowered, let them enjoy those characters. There's no reason to try and conform every single character out there to match your taste.
    Last edited by leo619; Yesterday at 08:29 AM.

  3. #3453
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    If there is one possible advantage to powering down non white characters, it that it can maybe take some heat from racist white fans off their back. But given what such people are like they'd just look for another reason to hate them.

  4. #3454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If there is one possible advantage to powering down non white characters, it that it can maybe take some heat from racist white fans off their back. But given what such people are like they'd just look for another reason to hate them.
    and the only thing that promotes is the idea that non white characters can't be among the best at things. One of the key reasons why folks like Rey, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman and more is because they're among the top tier of their respective universes. The fact that we have to settle for mid tier, low tier characters just reflects societies fear of seeing us as among the best.

  5. #3455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I feel like "Mary Sue" is one of those terms that has been misused so often on the net that it has ceased to have any meaning. See also "edgelord".
    Also, see "hipster."

  6. #3456

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    Quote Originally Posted by G. Boney View Post


    ^I Posted a little while back about the updates happening with my previously released comics (new colors, lettering, etc). Well, finally got that done and Double Dose #1 and Myth Smith #0 are off to the printer, gearing up for Free Comic Book Day.



    ^A panel from Myth Smith #1, which is still in the process of being colored...
    It doesn't get said enough around here, but with all the stuff we're always complaining about with comics, it's great that you're one of the dudes transforming things in your own way, with your own corner of the industry. I bitch a lot about everything, but I greatly respect your ambition and drive.
    You're like Witches in Salem. Just fuel for my fire.

  7. #3457
    MYTH SMITH ∞ !!! G. Boney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post
    It doesn't get said enough around here, but with all the stuff we're always complaining about with comics, it's great that you're one of the dudes transforming things in your own way, with your own corner of the industry. I bitch a lot about everything, but I greatly respect your ambition and drive.
    Thanks! I truly appreciate that.
    All Lives Matter is right up there with Let Them Eat Cake. --Samax Amen

    For the NFL and its racist ass fans peaceful protest against White Supremacy is worse than actual murder and mayhem. --Vic Vega

    https://www.facebook.com/MythworldeMedia

  8. #3458
    Incredible Member Mr.Majestic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    A big problem with giving editors way too much power is they can choke off creativity basically and cause stagnation.t A fact that Marvel saw this happen with the X-Men in the 1990's/early 2000's. It also reared again and hurt things as well. Some examples ...

    So there is always an issue with giving editors too much power. They can worry more about keeping things in place and not hurting sales or just driving writers off repeatedly by demands.
    Your examples are greatly appreciated. Recently I heard about the much beloved Mark Gruenwald abusing his powers as an editor on Avengers to benefit his own run on Captain America. There needs to be some tug and pull between editors and creators. In addition some of the best editors are those who give guidance and oversight, guys like Archie Goodwin. Whatever that balance needed is it isn't there right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    "Mary Sue" is a misused term. It supposed to be used to describe a writer insert character who outclasses and is beloved by the canon characters. It doesn't mean any character who is overpowered.
    One example I have is Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop. He's a loud mouth schnook of a cop but back at his Detroit station he's beloved and he has answer to every situation. A non-Mary Sue is Chris Tucker in Rush Hour, also a loud mouth cop but guys back at his station can't stand him and he needs Jackie Chan as a partner to help him out.

    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Well the definition of Mary Sue ties specifically to the self insert near perfect character "in fanfiction." It has nothing to do with overpowered. If you have an issue with characters being overpowered in your opinion than that's certainly your right to do so, but it's still not a mary sue. People interchange the two words as if they share the same meaning when a Mary Sue has specific ties to fan fiction.
    Just because a term originates from a milieu, fan fiction, doesn't mean it's only applicable there. Professional writers are not exempt from the causes and results of a Mary Sue.

  9. #3459
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    I dunno...we might have to agree to disagree on the meaning of Mary Sue. Your definition could just as easily apply to James Bond and Sherlock Holmes. Even Bugs Bunny.

  10. #3460
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    A post calling out fans for erasing Miles Morales' latino heritage.

    https://ubernegro.tumblr.com/post/18...t-this-like-it

    Oh and a certain ending for a certain character in Mortal Kombat has attracted some stupid controversy.

    https://www.themarysue.com/jax-morta...t-11-backlash/
    Last edited by Agent Z; Today at 01:07 AM.

  11. #3461
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  12. #3462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Majestic View Post
    Just because a term originates from a milieu, fan fiction, doesn't mean it's only applicable there. Professional writers are not exempt from the causes and results of a Mary Sue.
    Yes it does, because the entire purpose behind the term mary sue was that fan fiction writers were writing themselves into franchises they loved (the first being star trek I believe) and made themselves the star of the franchise in their story. So trying to remove the fan fiction portions removes the very essence of the meaning behind the term. It's like trying to say racism also means the discrimination against white women for being a woman just because they share the same core values of discrimination. That's why we have a separate term for that, Sexism.
    Last edited by leo619; Today at 09:04 AM.

  13. #3463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Busiek View Post
    It was Mark. Couldn't have been Jim, since he'd just recently been fired, and wasn't making any edicts any more.

    Mark wanted to boost sales on Captain America (which he wrote) by having him in a bigger spotlight as leader of the Avengers (which he edited).

    He was both smart and a nice guy, but it was an absolute conflict of interest that shouldn't have happened.

    kdb
    Thanks for the correction!

    Really enjoy Astro City!

  14. #3464
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    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/04...ing-down-work/

    Larry Stroman on turning down work and of course certain folks get offended.

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