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  1. #4831
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    I just saw Rise of Skywalker. Um...I liked it, I was entertained, I thought it was better than Last Jedi but not as good overal than the Force Awakens.

    I'm kinda looking at Abrams sideways now, though.

    spoilers:
    That Rylo kiss felt like a big middle finger to anyone rooting for Finn and Rey.
    end of spoilers

    Even if I overlook that, I'd like him to either s*** or get off the toilet in regards to Finn. Well, I would have liked that since the movie is already filmed but still.
    Agreed almost entirely on this. The only difference is I prefer RoS of TFA. I think I'd like TFA more if Finn didn't get wrecked by a stormtrooper and was able to tag with Rey as a Jedi to battle Kylo. Though it's still heaps better compare to Finn's treatment in TLJ. 10 minutes in and you get knocked out...*facepalm*

  2. #4832
    Genesis of A Nemesis KOSLOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Transitioning to co-general of the resistance, discovering there are more like him, and discovering he's force sensitive is definitely character progression,

    Where in TLJ he was literally Jar Jar Binks 2.0, I have rarely ever seen a character treated as a joke and a dude in distress as Finn in TLJ.
    1. And other than a title what did that amount to? He didn't command anyone, other than a bunch of horse creatures.
    2. Again, and? She ran off with Lando.
    3. That was never, ever, confirmed in the film. Hinting at something, and the writer stating his intention after the fact isn't the same as progression.

    In TLJ he had an entire character arc, mostly divorced from Rey which resulted in a personal conclusion with the defeat of HIS nemesis Phasma.

    TLJ Finn story - Recovers from VII, panics reverts to flight vs fight mentality, with help of Rose learns to rededicate himself to a cause greater than him, confronts and defeats Phasma, and attempts to sacrifice himself for that cause.

    ROS Finn Story - Learns other people are kidnapped child soldiers, blows up a command post, screams Rey a lot. That's not an arc, its background noise. Poe suffered the same problem.

    I understand the criticism people have with TLJ in regards to their expectations of a Star Wars movie, but at least the three leads each had their own arcs.

    ROS was watchable, and if you liked it cool, but it is probably one of my least favorite Star Wars films.
    Last edited by KOSLOX; 01-02-2020 at 09:54 AM.
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  3. #4833

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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Agreed almost entirely on this. The only difference is I prefer RoS of TFA. I think I'd like TFA more if Finn didn't get wrecked by a stormtrooper and was able to tag with Rey as a Jedi to battle Kylo. Though it's still heaps better compare to Finn's treatment in TLJ. 10 minutes in and you get knocked out...*facepalm*
    TFA gets a slight edge only because of the finale fight. Its not perfect, heck you can even argue its messy, but...damn if I don't like re-watching it.

  4. #4834
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOSLOX View Post
    2. Again, and? She ran off with Lando.
    3. That was never, ever, confirmed in the film. Hinting at something, and the writer stating his intention after the fact isn't the same as progression.

    In TLJ he had an entire character arc, mostly divorced from Rey which resulted in a personal conclusion with the defeat of HIS nemesis Phasma.

    TLJ Finn story - Recovers from VII, panics reverts to flight vs fight mentality, with help of Rose learns to rededicate himself to a cause greater than him, confronts and defeats Phasma, and attempts to sacrifice himself for that cause.

    ROS Finn Story - Learns other people are kidnapped child soldiers, blows up a command post, screams Rey a lot. That's not an arc, its background noise. Poe suffered the same problem.

    I understand the criticism people have with TLJ in regards to their expectations of a Star Wars movie, but at least the three leads each had their own arcs.

    ROS was watchable, and if you liked it cool, but it is probably one of my least favorite Star Wars films.
    spoilers:
    1) He literally commanded the entire ground troops, from Rose telling her to go to handling the entire defectors of first order troopers.

    2) Just because she found Lando does not mean her interactions with Finn comes to an end. He not has an entire community based on the same foundation from where he came from, which can explore untold amount of potential.

    3) Finn feeling that Rey died confirms he's force sensitive, it's a perfect example of show, not tell which is the foundation of writing. They continued to give hints throughout the film which culminated when Finn felt Rey's death.
    end of spoilers

    In TLJ, his "character arc" was a poorly executed rehash from his arc in TFA. he didn't even give the defeat to his nemesis Phasma, it was circumstances that took her away, not him. He wasn't successful in almost a single aspect he performed during the movie.

    So we'll have to agree to disagree on what a character arc is if you don't think all of those changes to his character and foundation doesn't constitute a character arc.


    Ultimately, I have no problem with people preferring TLJ over RoS. We all have our interest. My issue came from your original post calling out folks who like RoS over TLJ.


    Was RoS a perfect movie? Far from it, the fact the writer asked for 2 movies kinda cemented some of the main problems I had with the film. (It truly needs 2 movies or at least an extended version like lord of the rings), but out of the trilogy, it was definitely my favorite.
    Last edited by leo619; 01-02-2020 at 12:20 PM.

  5. #4835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    TFA gets a slight edge only because of the finale fight. Its not perfect, heck you can even argue its messy, but...damn if I don't like re-watching it.
    Agreed, I think I watched TFA like 10 times, more than any other star wars movie to date. I owned the standard edition and the 3d version with deleted scenes. IMO, it's the film that possess the most potential, and that's why I love it so much, but man do I enjoy Finn finally being competent in this film. It took 3 films to do it, but at least we got there.

  6. #4836
    Genesis of A Nemesis KOSLOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    spoilers:
    1) He literally commanded the entire ground troops, from Rose telling her to go to handling the entire defectors of first order troopers.

    2) Just because she found Lando does not mean her interactions with Finn comes to an end. He not has an entire community based on the same foundation from where he came from, which can explore untold amount of potential.

    3) Finn feeling that Rey died confirms he's force sensitive, it's a perfect example of show, not tell which is the foundation of writing. They continued to give hints throughout the film which culminated when Finn felt Rey's death.
    end of spoilers

    In TLJ, his "character arc" was a poorly executed rehash from his arc in TFA. he didn't even give the defeat to his nemesis Phasma, it was circumstances that took her away, not him. He wasn't successful in almost a single aspect he performed during the movie.

    So we'll have to agree to disagree on what a character arc is if you don't think all of those changes to his character and foundation doesn't constitute a character arc.


    Ultimately, I have no problem with people preferring TLJ over RoS. We all have our interest. My issue came from your original post calling out folks who like RoS over TLJ.


    Was RoS a perfect movie? Far from it, the fact the writer asked for 2 movies kinda cemented some of the main problems I had with the film. (It truly needs 2 movies or at least an extended version like lord of the rings), but out of the trilogy, it was definitely my favorite.
    None of the characters were successful, it was a major theme of the movie. Moving on after taking an L.

    Finn and Rose - Failed to find the proper contact.
    Poe - Led a failed, and misguided mutiny
    Rey - Was unable to "save" Ren, a was rejected as a student.

    It was an interesting direction to take the franchise and offered a great range of future stories. RoS feels more like a narrative dead end.
    Last edited by KOSLOX; 01-02-2020 at 12:50 PM.
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  7. #4837
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOSLOX View Post
    None of the characters were successful, it was a major theme of the movie. Moving on after taking an L.

    Finn and Rose - Failed to find the proper contact.
    Poe - Led a failed, and misguided mutiny
    Rey - Was unable to "save" Ren, a was rejected as a student.

    It was an interesting direction to take the franchise and offered a great range of future stories. RoS feels more like a narrative dead end.

    Except for Finn, his entire existence was an L. He tried to escape, he takes an L. He tried to find the contact, he takes an L. He tries to get on board a ship, he takes an L. He fights Plasma, he takes an L, and was fortunate for a building to save him. He tries to stop the incoming invasion? He takes an L.

    If TLJ was the first movie of the trilogy, I'd still be upset, but no where near as much as it being the sequel from TFA. He was more competent in the first movie then he was in the second. In face, I'd wager Finn was able to take out more baddies in the first 30 minutes of ROS then literally the entire film of TLJ which reflects how essentially useless he was in TLJ. That was largely one of the biggest criticisms placed on his character in the movie. Even the mary sue post articles about how horrible finn was treated as a way to indicate that not all of TLJ negative criticism was based around the inclusion of ladies.

    So you may have found it interesting, I found it as one of the worst treatments possible and almost killed my interest in the series. If it wasn't for JJ Abrams coming back, I was initially done. Now we have the possibility to explore after RoS him possibly becoming a jedi, exploring his background, and how he takes to being a leader of the resistance.

  8. #4838
    Genesis of A Nemesis KOSLOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Except for Finn, his entire existence was an L. He tried to escape, he takes an L. He tried to find the contact, he takes an L. He tries to get on board a ship, he takes an L. He fights Plasma, he takes an L, and was fortunate for a building to save him. He tries to stop the incoming invasion? He takes an L.

    If TLJ was the first movie of the trilogy, I'd still be upset, but no where near as much as it being the sequel from TFA. He was more competent in the first movie then he was in the second. In face, I'd wager Finn was able to take out more baddies in the first 30 minutes of ROS then literally the entire film of TLJ which reflects how essentially useless he was in TLJ. That was largely one of the biggest criticisms placed on his character in the movie. Even the mary sue post articles about how horrible finn was treated as a way to indicate that not all of TLJ negative criticism was based around the inclusion of ladies.

    So you may have found it interesting, I found it as one of the worst treatments possible and almost killed my interest in the series. If it wasn't for JJ Abrams coming back, I was initially done. Now we have the possibility to explore after RoS him possibly becoming a jedi, exploring his background, and how he takes to being a leader of the resistance.
    Not likely on film. And if canon is your thing I wouldn't put too much stock in the comics, games, or books.

    All that stuff is canon until Disney decides it's not or sells to someone else and they decide it's not.
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  9. #4839

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    Ok well then until Disney says otherwise these are Finn's parents.



    That's one way to continue the Skywalker legacy. We'd get reports of certain fanboys' heads literally exploding on the news though.

  10. #4840
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOSLOX View Post
    None of the characters were successful, it was a major theme of the movie. Moving on after taking an L.

    Finn and Rose - Failed to find the proper contact.
    Poe - Led a failed, and misguided mutiny
    Rey - Was unable to "save" Ren, a was rejected as a student.

    It was an interesting direction to take the franchise and offered a great range of future stories. RoS feels more like a narrative dead end.
    Not only did Poe fail in his misguided mutiny, prior to that he got his ENTIRE SQUADRON wiped out in order to take out a Star Destroyer and he violated direct orders to do it.

    Peeps have said that its a plot hole that Holdo doesn't tell Poe anything. If Poe wasn't a favorite of Leia, he'd of been in the Brig at best and shot on site at worst.

    Who reveals strategy to an insubordinate failure who's been demoted and confined to quarters?

  11. #4841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    Not only did Poe fail in his misguided mutiny, prior to that he got his ENTIRE SQUADRON wiped out in order to take out a Star Destroyer and he violated direct orders to do it.

    Peeps have said that its a plot hole that Holdo doesn't tell Poe anything. If Poe wasn't a favorite of Leia, he'd of been in the Brig at best and shot on site at worst.

    Who reveals strategy to an insubordinate failure who's been demoted and confined to quarters?
    Not to mention that when Poe heard what he thought was the plane he ended up spilling it to DJ.

  12. #4842
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    Not only did Poe fail in his misguided mutiny, prior to that he got his ENTIRE SQUADRON wiped out in order to take out a Star Destroyer and he violated direct orders to do it.

    Peeps have said that its a plot hole that Holdo doesn't tell Poe anything. If Poe wasn't a favorite of Leia, he'd of been in the Brig at best and shot on site at worst.

    Who reveals strategy to an insubordinate failure who's been demoted and confined to quarters?
    Oddly enough if Poe had not pushed to destroy the Juggernaut that had the ability to wipe out the entire resistance base from high orbit it would have been able to wipe out the entire fleet after the first hyper-space jump... Poe's action saved them. Also why didn't Leia call back the fleet of bombers herself? Poe's demotion still put him in a command position and he was still respected by many of the men and women on the ship (or else he could not have staged the mutiny meaning other doubted Holdo's leadership) why not keep some one like that in the loop in a crisis? And during combat is not a time to "teach a lesson" corrective should have been put off until after the immediate threat was cleared in Poe's case and not confined to quarters.
    Surely not everybody was kung fu fighting

  13. #4843
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    One line of dialogue would have made that scene better frankly

  14. #4844
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    One line of dialogue would have made that scene better frankly
    Just like a brief conversation could have undone the whole Mary Sue argument. I never bought into it anyway, but all Rey had to do was tell someone that she got lucky when she beat Kylo in TFA, and that he'll be ready for her next time, or the fight should have been a draw.

  15. #4845
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overhazard View Post
    Just like a brief conversation could have undone the whole Mary Sue argument. I never bought into it anyway, but all Rey had to do was tell someone that she got lucky when she beat Kylo in TFA, and that he'll be ready for her next time, or the fight should have been a draw.
    thye fixed it with the force dyad explanation instead!


    lolol yeesh
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