Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[leo619]

2. Again, and? She ran off with Lando.
3. That was never, ever, confirmed in the film. Hinting at something, and the writer stating his intention after the fact isn't the same as progression.

In TLJ he had an entire character arc, mostly divorced from Rey which resulted in a personal conclusion with the defeat of HIS nemesis Phasma.

TLJ Finn story - Recovers from VII, panics reverts to flight vs fight mentality, with help of Rose learns to rededicate himself to a cause greater than him, confronts and defeats Phasma, and attempts to sacrifice himself for that cause.

ROS Finn Story - Learns other people are kidnapped child soldiers, blows up a command post, screams Rey a lot. That's not an arc, its background noise. Poe suffered the same problem.

I understand the criticism people have with TLJ in regards to their expectations of a Star Wars movie, but at least the three leads each had their own arcs.

ROS was watchable, and if you liked it cool, but it is probably one of my least favorite Star Wars films.

spoilers:

1) He literally commanded the entire ground troops, from Rose telling her to go to handling the entire defectors of first order troopers. 2) Just because she found Lando does not mean her interactions with Finn comes to an end. He not has an entire community based on the same foundation from where he came from, which can explore untold amount of potential. 3) Finn feeling that Rey died confirms he's force sensitive, it's a perfect example of show, not tell which is the foundation of writing. They continued to give hints throughout the film which culminated when Finn felt Rey's death.

end of spoilers

In TLJ, his "character arc" was a poorly executed rehash from his arc in TFA. he didn't even give the defeat to his nemesis Phasma, it was circumstances that took her away, not him. He wasn't successful in almost a single aspect he performed during the movie.

So we'll have to agree to disagree on what a character arc is if you don't think all of those changes to his character and foundation doesn't constitute a character arc.


Ultimately, I have no problem with people preferring TLJ over RoS. We all have our interest. My issue came from your original post calling out folks who like RoS over TLJ.


Was RoS a perfect movie? Far from it, the fact the writer asked for 2 movies kinda cemented some of the main problems I had with the film. (It truly needs 2 movies or at least an extended version like lord of the rings), but out of the trilogy, it was definitely my favorite.

[leo619]

TFA gets a slight edge only because of the finale fight. Its not perfect, heck you can even argue its messy, but...damn if I don't like re-watching it.

Agreed, I think I watched TFA like 10 times, more than any other star wars movie to date. I owned the standard edition and the 3d version with deleted scenes. IMO, it's the film that possess the most potential, and that's why I love it so much, but man do I enjoy Finn finally being competent in this film. It took 3 films to do it, but at least we got there.

[KOSLOX]

spoilers:

1) He literally commanded the entire ground troops, from Rose telling her to go to handling the entire defectors of first order troopers. 2) Just because she found Lando does not mean her interactions with Finn comes to an end. He not has an entire community based on the same foundation from where he came from, which can explore untold amount of potential. 3) Finn feeling that Rey died confirms he's force sensitive, it's a perfect example of show, not tell which is the foundation of writing. They continued to give hints throughout the film which culminated when Finn felt Rey's death.

end of spoilers

In TLJ, his "character arc" was a poorly executed rehash from his arc in TFA. he didn't even give the defeat to his nemesis Phasma, it was circumstances that took her away, not him. He wasn't successful in almost a single aspect he performed during the movie.

So we'll have to agree to disagree on what a character arc is if you don't think all of those changes to his character and foundation doesn't constitute a character arc.


Ultimately, I have no problem with people preferring TLJ over RoS. We all have our interest. My issue came from your original post calling out folks who like RoS over TLJ.


Was RoS a perfect movie? Far from it, the fact the writer asked for 2 movies kinda cemented some of the main problems I had with the film. (It truly needs 2 movies or at least an extended version like lord of the rings), but out of the trilogy, it was definitely my favorite.

None of the characters were successful, it was a major theme of the movie. Moving on after taking an L.

Finn and Rose - Failed to find the proper contact.
Poe - Led a failed, and misguided mutiny
Rey - Was unable to "save" Ren, a was rejected as a student.

It was an interesting direction to take the franchise and offered a great range of future stories. RoS feels more like a narrative dead end.

[leo619]

None of the characters were successful, it was a major theme of the movie. Moving on after taking an L.

Finn and Rose - Failed to find the proper contact.
Poe - Led a failed, and misguided mutiny
Rey - Was unable to "save" Ren, a was rejected as a student.

It was an interesting direction to take the franchise and offered a great range of future stories. RoS feels more like a narrative dead end.

Except for Finn, his entire existence was an L. He tried to escape, he takes an L. He tried to find the contact, he takes an L. He tries to get on board a ship, he takes an L. He fights Plasma, he takes an L, and was fortunate for a building to save him. He tries to stop the incoming invasion? He takes an L.

If TLJ was the first movie of the trilogy, I'd still be upset, but no where near as much as it being the sequel from TFA. He was more competent in the first movie then he was in the second. In face, I'd wager Finn was able to take out more baddies in the first 30 minutes of ROS then literally the entire film of TLJ which reflects how essentially useless he was in TLJ. That was largely one of the biggest criticisms placed on his character in the movie. Even the mary sue post articles about how horrible finn was treated as a way to indicate that not all of TLJ negative criticism was based around the inclusion of ladies.

So you may have found it interesting, I found it as one of the worst treatments possible and almost killed my interest in the series. If it wasn't for JJ Abrams coming back, I was initially done. Now we have the possibility to explore after RoS him possibly becoming a jedi, exploring his background, and how he takes to being a leader of the resistance.

[KOSLOX]

Except for Finn, his entire existence was an L. He tried to escape, he takes an L. He tried to find the contact, he takes an L. He tries to get on board a ship, he takes an L. He fights Plasma, he takes an L, and was fortunate for a building to save him. He tries to stop the incoming invasion? He takes an L.

If TLJ was the first movie of the trilogy, I'd still be upset, but no where near as much as it being the sequel from TFA. He was more competent in the first movie then he was in the second. In face, I'd wager Finn was able to take out more baddies in the first 30 minutes of ROS then literally the entire film of TLJ which reflects how essentially useless he was in TLJ. That was largely one of the biggest criticisms placed on his character in the movie. Even the mary sue post articles about how horrible finn was treated as a way to indicate that not all of TLJ negative criticism was based around the inclusion of ladies.

So you may have found it interesting, I found it as one of the worst treatments possible and almost killed my interest in the series. If it wasn't for JJ Abrams coming back, I was initially done. Now we have the possibility to explore after RoS him possibly becoming a jedi, exploring his background, and how he takes to being a leader of the resistance.

Not likely on film. And if canon is your thing I wouldn't put too much stock in the comics, games, or books.

All that stuff is canon until Disney decides it's not or sells to someone else and they decide it's not.

[Nate Grey]

Ok well then until Disney says otherwise these are Finn's parents.



That's one way to continue the Skywalker legacy. We'd get reports of certain fanboys' heads literally exploding on the news though.

[Vic Vega]

None of the characters were successful, it was a major theme of the movie. Moving on after taking an L.

Finn and Rose - Failed to find the proper contact.
Poe - Led a failed, and misguided mutiny
Rey - Was unable to "save" Ren, a was rejected as a student.

It was an interesting direction to take the franchise and offered a great range of future stories. RoS feels more like a narrative dead end.

Not only did Poe fail in his misguided mutiny, prior to that he got his ENTIRE SQUADRON wiped out in order to take out a Star Destroyer and he violated direct orders to do it.

Peeps have said that its a plot hole that Holdo doesn't tell Poe anything. If Poe wasn't a favorite of Leia, he'd of been in the Brig at best and shot on site at worst.

Who reveals strategy to an insubordinate failure who's been demoted and confined to quarters?

[Agent Z]

Not only did Poe fail in his misguided mutiny, prior to that he got his ENTIRE SQUADRON wiped out in order to take out a Star Destroyer and he violated direct orders to do it.

Peeps have said that its a plot hole that Holdo doesn't tell Poe anything. If Poe wasn't a favorite of Leia, he'd of been in the Brig at best and shot on site at worst.

Who reveals strategy to an insubordinate failure who's been demoted and confined to quarters?

Not to mention that when Poe heard what he thought was the plane he ended up spilling it to DJ.

[Moon Ronin]

Not only did Poe fail in his misguided mutiny, prior to that he got his ENTIRE SQUADRON wiped out in order to take out a Star Destroyer and he violated direct orders to do it.

Peeps have said that its a plot hole that Holdo doesn't tell Poe anything. If Poe wasn't a favorite of Leia, he'd of been in the Brig at best and shot on site at worst.

Who reveals strategy to an insubordinate failure who's been demoted and confined to quarters?

Oddly enough if Poe had not pushed to destroy the Juggernaut that had the ability to wipe out the entire resistance base from high orbit it would have been able to wipe out the entire fleet after the first hyper-space jump... Poe's action saved them. Also why didn't Leia call back the fleet of bombers herself? Poe's demotion still put him in a command position and he was still respected by many of the men and women on the ship (or else he could not have staged the mutiny meaning other doubted Holdo's leadership) why not keep some one like that in the loop in a crisis? And during combat is not a time to "teach a lesson" corrective should have been put off until after the immediate threat was cleared in Poe's case and not confined to quarters.

[jetengine]

One line of dialogue would have made that scene better frankly

[Overhazard]

One line of dialogue would have made that scene better frankly

Just like a brief conversation could have undone the whole Mary Sue argument. I never bought into it anyway, but all Rey had to do was tell someone that she got lucky when she beat Kylo in TFA, and that he'll be ready for her next time, or the fight should have been a draw.

[MindofShadow]

Just like a brief conversation could have undone the whole Mary Sue argument. I never bought into it anyway, but all Rey had to do was tell someone that she got lucky when she beat Kylo in TFA, and that he'll be ready for her next time, or the fight should have been a draw.

thye fixed it with the force dyad explanation instead!


lolol yeesh

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

I just DM'd my first ever all black game of Dungeons and Dragons. I feel so proud of my friend Shaun who started out barely able to talk to anyone at the table and uncomfortable, to ending a four hour game by rolling a beastly critical 20 and putting a javalin right through the mouth of a necromancer right in the middleof his monologue. Eff Moria, dwarf barbarians from Gary don't play.

I love video games, but tabletop is still the ultimate gaming experience.

[G. Boney]

I just DM'd my first ever all black game of Dungeons and Dragons. I feel so proud of my friend Shaun who started out barely able to talk to anyone at the table and uncomfortable, to ending a four hour game by rolling a beastly critical 20 and putting a javalin right through the mouth of a necromancer right in the middleof his monologue. Eff Moria, dwarf barbarians from Gary don't play.

I love video games, but tabletop is still the ultimate gaming experience.

This may be of interest to you: https://www.mvmediaatl.com/product-p...me-basic-rules

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

This may be of interest to you: https://www.mvmediaatl.com/product-p...me-basic-rules

That looks pretty cool. First I've heard of it.