Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[godisawesome]

Naw, Finn is C3PO lol

Poe was Han.


What is wild about ST SW is that they badly just aped the OT to bring in the old OG fans... but at the same time took a dump on all the OT characters the OG fans loved. It is so weird. I feel like Disney should just do a documentary on WTF happened behind the scenes with the ST because none of it really makes sense from a fan stand point. HOW DO YOU NOT PLAN THE TRILOGY lol??

TFA could have been "the adventures of old luke/han/leia" and it could have been those three playling Uno and it would have made a billion dollars lol.

Why even have a trilogy? Why not a SW cinematic universe? Why did the same company that has the only successful cinematic universe not turn arond and copy that idea with a franchise that has the exact same potential do to have vast it is?

None of this makes sense!

I agree with the overall point, but I want to talk about this:

Finn in TFA is a quite a bit closer to being Han, with he and Rey both splitting some traits of all three OT cast mains.

Poe is a minor character more akin to Wedge in TFA.

And I think that two things screwed that up: the decision to make Rey not a Skywalker, and systemic racism that Finn suffers from and that Kylo (and maybe to some extent Poe) enjoy.

Finn in TFA has a hell of a lot of Han Solo parallels, and gets quite a few rather on the nose interactions with Han that seem to make the parallel a lot clearer. He’s given a role requiring a charismatic mix of humor and drama complete with awkward reactions with a bit of false bravado in them (“We’re all fine here, now, we’re fine... how are you?” is a lot like “The Resistance?...Obviously. Yeah. I’m with the Resistance. I’m with the Resistance.”) that nonetheless culminates in them having a dramatic confrontation with the main hero where they’re confronted for their more selfish flaws while admitting they care about each other, then they both have a “changed my mind, kid” moment in coming back to rescue the hero and save them when confronted by the main villain (Han protecting Luke with the Falcon is quick and a lot flashier than Finn holding off and tagging Kylo while Rey recovers from being thrown into a tree, but I’d argue Finn’s is more dramatic in terms of character arc.) Han also gets two scenes that make it clear some of the paraellles between himself and Finn are likely intentional (one of which I’ll get back to in a bit.)

And rather importantly, though admittedly subjectively and speculatively...

...I think that TFA only works out the way it did if Abrams and Kasdan wrote the script while working under the “soft” assumption (because Abrams hated planning ahead and LFL was against planning ahead entirely) that Rey was a Skywalker of some kind... and that Finn was her most clear and immediate romance option. The sheer focus and drive that Abrams had in trying to make sure that Rey and Finn’s chemistry and bind was as strong as it could be in TFA, even including major changes in reshoots to capture the actors’ natural chemistry, the way the confession scene is directed, the way the film outright admits Finn is attracted to Rey and gives her a Leia-like brusqueness towards him early on before he earns her at least platonic love...

...And the specific decision to feature a short, quick scene where Han, the OT’s romantic male lead, teases Finn with a parallel about how “Women always find out the truth. Always!”....

...All that feels like fairly specific set-ups for Finn as the romantic male lead with Rey. And to be honest, if that was the case, than I’d say all Finn really needed was a win over the stun baton-carrying stormtrooper and a few less jokes elsewhere, and he’d be a perfect counterpart to Han with a dynamic new origin story and potential elsewhere.

And then TLJ, with the introduction of Rose and hard line stance that Rey and Finn won’t share any dialogue and the way that LFL themselves seem to be the most overt pushers of the Reylo story (there’s some evidence they may have ordered it in TROS) - all that feels like the sadly predictable consequences of LFL allowing Johnson to denounce Rey Skywalker as “too predictable” and then automatically assuming that Kylo had to be her romantic option both because he was now the only Skywalker, and because for some reason they just thought a monster who’s white makes more sense as a romantic lead than a heroic black guy.

So yeah, to some extent I’m accusing LFL of both accidental systemic racism and spiteful “revenge ‘shipping tactics” to try and make Finn a “Ron the Janitor Muggle” while trying to make Kylo “Draco in Leather Pants.”

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Poe was originally supposed to die in Force Awakens if we remember. The entire set up where he gives Finn his jacket and more was a set up that Poe Dameron was gonna die in that film. In fact he was supposed to die near the start of the film...

https://www.businessinsider.com/star...-to-die-2016-3

Now Issac only wanted to be in the film longer before he died by Abrams decided to change the script and told him in a later call he was now in the rest of the film.


And this is where problems set in. The film as people posted was to set up Finn as the possible new Han/Luke type who would be the romantic lead for Rey and now we suddenly had this change. Poe in the last 2 films became even more Han like as he was a smuggler and crack shot pilot who gambled a lot on his skills. The 3rd film had him trading barbs with Rey ala Han as well. So it killed Finn's role big time.

Then you had the Kylo arc that was pushed beyond silliness in the 2nd film and expanded into the 3rd. And well...it was a mess.


But yeah the Poe decision seemed to cause a chain reaction deal which trickled down. I like they kept Poe Dameron around. But this change really impacted Finn a lot by doing it.

[Overhazard]

Naw, Finn is C3PO lol

Poe was Han.


What is wild about ST SW is that they badly just aped the OT to bring in the old OG fans... but at the same time took a dump on all the OT characters the OG fans loved. It is so weird. I feel like Disney should just do a documentary on WTF happened behind the scenes with the ST because none of it really makes sense from a fan stand point. HOW DO YOU NOT PLAN THE TRILOGY lol??

TFA could have been "the adventures of old luke/han/leia" and it could have been those three playling Uno and it would have made a billion dollars lol.

Why even have a trilogy? Why not a SW cinematic universe? Why did the same company that has the only successful cinematic universe not turn arond and copy that idea with a franchise that has the exact same potential do to have vast it is?

None of this makes sense!

Especially considering that they originally wanted to make a Star Wars movie every year, but after the poor reception of TLJ and Solo they nixed that idea.

Why not mine the old EU? There was a lot they could have taken and expanded upon. They just ditched it all for their new canon. They never did have Luke, Han and Leia together onscreen before Carrie Fisher died and that's terrible. They wanted to make their money back, but there was really no plan.

[Agent Z]

From what I understand, the old EU had a lot of bad stories so Disney wanted a clean slate.

[KOSLOX]

Y'all watch Lovecraft Country tonight?

[MindofShadow]

From what I understand, the old EU had a lot of bad stories so Disney wanted a clean slate.

It did.

They were right to ditch it.

IT doesn't mean you can steal story elements from it and make your own story.

Just like the MCU does. There are a lot of bad comics. MCU takes good aspects of them and twist it into an original story the fits better on screen.

[Overhazard]

From what I understand, the old EU had a lot of bad stories so Disney wanted a clean slate.

Didn't stop them from using Grand Admiral Thrawn in Rebels, or the Dark Saber in The Mandalorian.

[anyajenkins]

...Thrawn in the movies would have been amazing...

There’s also nothing about trying to put a Luke/Vader dynamic on Rey and Kylo that necessitates screwing over and ignoring Finn; I could see how a blind and ignorant enough favoritism towards Kylo and recreating that OT dynamic could lead to sticking Rey into an abusive and shallow relationship with her tormentor at the hands of primarily male creators, but the apathy, condescension, and at times seeming malice towards Finn doesn’t connect immediately to the same blindness - particularly when it carries through past TLJ.

I really do think the most “racially benign” answer is that some of LFL saw Finn as an inconveniently high profile character with too good of a relationship with Rey and too much success as the male lead in TFA when they wanted Kylo to enjoy both of those, and that they may have tried to sabotage him a bit in both aspects. The problem is, it’s hard to see that as an innocently ignorant move when Finn’s a black character getting sabotaged this way.

I actually agree with most of this. If they wanted to ‘redeem’ Kyle, they didn’t need to shove Finn on some pointless side quest. And although Hollywood might find this shocking, a male/ female relationship does not have to be romantic. So again Rey ‘saving’ Keylo didn’t need romantic undertone (honestly, it should have been Leia, but given the circumstances, go with Luke.)

[Starter Set]

From what I understand, the old EU had a lot of bad stories so Disney wanted a clean slate.

Oh there are a lot of bad stories no question. But also a whole lot of damn good ones.

Keep in mind that we're talking about decades worth of books and comics, decades.

The EU was all of Star Wars from 83 to 99.

[godisawesome]

Oh there are a lot of bad stories no question. But also a whole lot of damn good ones.

Keep in mind that we're talking about decades worth of books and comics, decades.

The EU was all of Star Wars from 83 to 99.

Yeah; not adapting The Glove of Darth Vader is a good thing, but so is adapting Gran Admiral Thrawn is a good thing.

There’s also the annoying fact that Kylo is, for all intents and purposes, just a much less well-written if well-casted version of Darth Caedus/Jacen Solo, while Finn bears some similarity to guys like Kylo Katarn in his backstory.

And yet Kylo gets coddled far more than Caedus was (Caedus died as a Sith Lord) even though he’s much less well written (Jacen Solo was an actual Galactic hero who, in spite of still having shakey reasons for going evil, still had something like actual nuance to being a badguy)... while Finn got made into the butt of Janitor jokes by LFL.

[Agent Z]

Lebron James reveals new Tune Squad jersey.

https://twitter.com/LJFamFoundation/...sey-sneak-peek

[Surf]

I think one positive, as far as the actors go, about the Disney Star Wars movies is there is so much divisive stink on them, they won't be anchors around this new group the same way the OT success's hung around those actors. I mean Harrison Ford save from Indiana Jones WAS Han Solo to a whole generation of us... until he kicked a terrorist out of a plane as the President or some ****. Mark Hamill to me is the Joker but that part didn't come out for years and years since he was in the original Star Wars and really nobody was checking for him in other roles at all for damn near 20 years. Similar with Billy Dee but you quickly get into a 2 America's argument there. Billy Dee will always be Bingo Long to me but no question Lando was his biggest role. He's mentioned it that after Empire, he and his kids were harassed in public and at school cause their father was a 'traitor' in that movie. It even came hard from the black audience, as if Mahogany or Lady Sings the Blues never happened, he said it was a tough time and then so Return of the Jedi came out and redeemed him but it was tough sledding personally but really, he kind of peaked with that. Boyega's role I don't think is like that, outside of him having a kind of dude resting bih face, I don't think Star Wars defines his career. Sure he's got many years more of work but entertainment is so much different and because Star Wars didn't hit like it did when I was a kid I feel it's easier to move on from it professionally. I think of 3 other movies Adam Driver was in before I get to Kylo. Maybe not so much for the smaller roles but by and large the meh minus of it all likely serves the principles better. Not so much for the culture but at least Boyega will likely see a bigger role down the line.

[G. Boney]

https://www.mythworldemedia.com/

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[Agent Z]

Laurence Fishburne will not be returning for Matrix 4

https://www.themarysue.com/laurence-...r-in-matrix-4/

Daniel Dae Kim and Randall Park will be starring in a heist film

https://www.themarysue.com/things-we...lm-yes-please/

[Starter Set]

Gee, forgot about Matrix 4. Shame about Fishburne.