Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[Agent Z]

The first movie had more in common with Marvel's Thor and Captain America: The First Avenger, and the Reeve Superman films had cheesy camp scenes before 3. '84 had the right tone for a Wonder Woman movie, that's more classic Wonder Woman then any previous appearance in the DCEU. It just didn't nail the landing and supposedly it was a train wreck behind the scenes.



Artemis was in the first movie as a cameo. Since Jenkins is doing all Diana's greatest enemies, my guess is Circe is up next.

Wonder Woman has occupied a variety of tones over the years. The previous DCEU appearances are not any more or less true to the character than WW1984.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Wonder Woman has occupied a variety of tones over the years. The previous DCEU appearances are not any more or less true to the character than WW1984.

She has, that didn't make what I said any less right. And it's not solely about tone, it's about influences - Thor and Captain America had more influence on everything than Rucka or Azzarello on that movie.

[Agent Z]

Louisville police move to fire two detectives involved in Breonna Taylor raid

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/29/u...ves/index.html

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/29/95130...breonna-taylor

She has, that didn't make what I said any less right. And it's not solely about tone, it's about influences - Thor and Captain America had more influence on everything than Rucka or Azzarello on that movie.

The plot of the movie was based on George Perez's run with influences of Marston's origin. The similarities to Thor, if any, are shallow at best and it doesn't even use the same war as Captain America. You're greatly overestimating how much influence those movies have on it. Even Steve dying is something that predates the movie doing it.

[Steel Inquisitor]

The plot of the movie was based on George Perez's run with influences of Marston's origin. The similarities to Thor, if any, are shallow at best and it doesn't even use the same war as Captain America. You're greatly overestimating how much influence those movies have on it. Even Steve dying is something that predates the movie doing it.

"Gods and Mortals" had her fighting Ares various children, there are elements there but it's minor. Thor is a massive influence on the plot, she's Thor in that movie. It didn't have to be, the movie may as well have used The First Avenger as a blueprint. She had her own Howling Commandos. Steve Trevor even died on a plane suicide run!

[Vic Vega]

It was Sam Jackson who lost to Landau for best supporting actor, the only Oscar that Murphy was up for was for Dream Girls and he lost to Alan Arkin.

So I misremembered the incident. Interesting to note that kind of thing has happened at least twice.

[Agent Z]

"Gods and Mortals" had her fighting Ares various children, there are elements there but it's minor.

Both stories had her fighting Ares who was the main villain. That's way more than "minor".

Thor is a massive influence on the plot, she's Thor in that movie.

No it is not. Thor is about a guy who learns to become less of a jackass after almost starting an interplanetary war. Diana is a woman trying to save the world from being destroyed in a global war. You're overstating the surface-level similarities to the Thor plot. The only thing they have in common is being fish-out-of-water characters based in mythology.

It didn't have to be, the movie may as well have used The First Avenger as a blueprint. She had her own Howling Commandos. Steve Trevor even died on a plane suicide run!

Jenkins outright stated they used WW1 to avoid comparisons with The First Avenger. The Oddfellows are the only thing that is remotely like that movie and even they are different.

[J. D. Guy]

https://www.cbr.com/valiant-joseph-i...lack-creators/

A little while back, I had a mind to talk about this in the Valiant Comics thread in the Independent Comics forum, but the realization did frustrate me about how Valiant's premiere Black Superhero, Shadowman/Jack Boniface, gets treated as second class compared to Valiant's White hero/protagonist-led properties, like X-O Manowar, Bloodshot, and especially NinjaK. They'd rather the White Punk Mambo and the quintessential White McNinja NinjaK use elements from Jack's world and mythos than actually use the Black Jack Boniface/Shadowman himself (and risk elevating the character along with his own concepts, I guess?). His most recent run was super enjoyable, but it's over now. Yet unlike his White peers, the Black Hero doesn't get chance after chance in prompt succession. You couldn't turn around without learning of the latest Bloodshot/Harbinger/NinjaK/X-O Manowar relaunch. It took forever for Shadowman's recently ended series to become a thing, and the character was stuck playing everyone else's toy in the meantime. And this relaunch is no different, for having to wait so long for it.

And then I read this article. And I'm not surprised that Valiant's lack of Black character prominence and overall respect is a reflection of the lack of Black creatives running the show. Even this upcoming March relaunch for Shadowman doesn't have any Black creative energy to its name.

[Agent Z]

https://www.cbr.com/valiant-joseph-i...lack-creators/

A little while back, I had a mind to talk about this in Valiant Comics thread in the Independent Comics forum, but the realization did frustrate me about how Valiant's premiere Black Superherp, Shadowman/Jack Boniface, gets treated as second class compared to Valiant's White hero/protagonist-led properties, like X-O Manowar, Bloodshot, and especially NinjaK. They'd rather the White Punk Mambo and the quintessential White McNinja NinjaK use elements from Jack's world and mythos than actually use the Black Jack Boniface/Shadowman himself (and risk elevating the character along with his own concepts). His most recent run was super enjoyable, but it's over now. Yet unlike his White peers, the Black Hero doesn't get chance after chance in prompt succession. You couldn't turn around without learning of the latest Bloodshot/Harbinger/NinjaK/X-O Manowar relaunch. It took forever for Shadowman's most recent series to become a thing, and the character was stuck playing everyone else's toy in the meantime. And this relaunch is no different, for having to wait so long for it.

And then I read this article. And I'm not surprised that Valiant's lack of Black character prominence and overall respect is a reflection of the lack of Black creatives running the show. Even this upcoming March relaunch for Shadowman doesn't have any Black creative energy to its name.

I could have been sworn Punk Mambo was mixed race when I first saw her. I haven't read any of Valiant's stuff other than Shadowman, unfortunately. I understand they have a black female character named Live Wire and an Asian-American woman named Dr Mirage who is a ghost medium. How often are they used?

[Surf]

https://www.cbr.com/valiant-joseph-i...lack-creators/

A little while back, I had a mind to talk about this in Valiant Comics thread in the Independent Comics forum, but the realization did frustrate me about how Valiant's premiere Black Superherp, Shadowman/Jack Boniface, gets treated as second class compared to Valiant's White hero/protagonist-led properties, like X-O Manowar, Bloodshot, and especially NinjaK. They'd rather the White Punk Mambo and the quintessential White McNinja NinjaK use elements from Jack's world and mythos than actually use the Black Jack Boniface/Shadowman himself (and risk elevating the character along with his own concepts). His most recent run was super enjoyable, but it's over now. Yet unlike his White peers, the Black Hero doesn't get chance after chance in prompt succession. You couldn't turn around without learning of the latest Bloodshot/Harbinger/NinjaK/X-O Manowar relaunch. It took forever for Shadowman's most recent series to become a thing, and the character was stuck playing everyone else's toy in the meantime. And this relaunch is no different, for having to wait so long for it.

And then I read this article. And I'm not surprised that Valiant's lack of Black character prominence and overall respect is a reflection of the lack of Black creatives running the show. Even this upcoming March relaunch for Shadowman doesn't have any Black creative energy to its name.

Is that why Illidge was only at Valiant for less a year?

[OopsIdiditagain]

Just putting this here because a lot of POC especially black people have vitamin D deficiency. I hope everyone is able to take supplements.

Study finds over 80 percent of COVID-19 patients have vitamin D deficiency.

Happy New Year btw! Hope the next year is better for everyone.

[9th.]

https://www.cbr.com/valiant-joseph-i...lack-creators/

A little while back, I had a mind to talk about this in Valiant Comics thread in the Independent Comics forum, but the realization did frustrate me about how Valiant's premiere Black Superherp, Shadowman/Jack Boniface, gets treated as second class compared to Valiant's White hero/protagonist-led properties, like X-O Manowar, Bloodshot, and especially NinjaK. They'd rather the White Punk Mambo and the quintessential White McNinja NinjaK use elements from Jack's world and mythos than actually use the Black Jack Boniface/Shadowman himself (and risk elevating the character along with his own concepts). His most recent run was super enjoyable, but it's over now. Yet unlike his White peers, the Black Hero doesn't get chance after chance in prompt succession. You couldn't turn around without learning of the latest Bloodshot/Harbinger/NinjaK/X-O Manowar relaunch. It took forever for Shadowman's most recent series to become a thing, and the character was stuck playing everyone else's toy in the meantime. And this relaunch is no different, for having to wait so long for it.

And then I read this article. And I'm not surprised that Valiant's lack of Black character prominence and overall respect is a reflection of the lack of Black creatives running the show. Even this upcoming March relaunch for Shadowman doesn't have any Black creative energy to its name.

Interesting, I wondered about this very thing myself

[Malvolio]

Just putting this here because a lot of POC especially black people have vitamin D deficiency. I hope everyone is able to take supplements.

Study finds over 80 percent of COVID-19 patients have vitamin D deficiency.

Happy New Year btw! Hope the next year is better for everyone.

This is a single study of a relatively small sample size, only 200 people. Until I see this replicated with a significantly larger sample, I won't believe that this correlation of Covid 19 and Vitamin D deficiency is anything more than coincidence.

[J. D. Guy]

I could have been sword Punk Mambo was mixed race when I first saw her. I haven't read any of Valiant's stuff other than Shadowman, unfortunately. I understand they have a black female character named Live Wire and an Asian-American woman named Dr Mirage who is a ghost medium. How often are they used?

Not sure about Punk Mambo being mixed, but if she is supposed to be, then boy is that neither communicated well nor consistently. And especially given the context of how she is portrayed, it wouldn't make anything better if she was.

I confess to not being super knowledgeable about Dr. Mirage's usage and presence. But I think it is comparable to Livewire.

With Livewire, she had a pretty huge push back in like 2018-2019, I think was the time frame. They seemed to be pushing her hard — maybe something like Carol Danvers hard. But then they just stopped. Not a peep from Livewire since her solo ended, I think. Dr. Mirage is, I reckon, in a similar boat.

There's also Divinity, who's a Black Russian Astronaut with reality-warping powers. As his name implies, he's pretty much a god. But like Quantum, Divinity is played differently than the other primarily-pushed Valiant Heroes. In Divinity's case, a creative team will pull him out to play with his character in a kitschy, esoteric story, before putting him away again and keeping him locked up. Despite how his position should naturally incline him to be super relevant throughout the affairs of the Valiant Universe, it usually just holds Divinity back. I straight-up forget about him until just now because of that.

[J. D. Guy]

Is that why Illidge was only at Valiant for less a year?

Dunno, but I wouldn't be surprised if that had something to do with it.

[Agent Z]

Not sure about Punk Mambo being mixed, but if she is supposed to be, then boy is that neither communicated well nor consistently. And especially given the context of how she is portrayed, it wouldn't make anything better if she was.

Having looked at her images again, I think I was mistaken.

There's also Divinity, who's a Black Russian Astronaut with reality-warping powers. As his name implies, he's pretty much a god. But like Quantum, Divinity is played differently than the other primarily-pushed Valiant Heroes. In Divinity's case, a creative team will pull him out to play with his character in a kitschy, esoteric story, before putting him away again and keeping him locked up. Despite how his position should naturally incline him to be super relevant throughout the affairs of the Valiant Universe, it usually just holds Divinity back. I straight-up forget about him until just now because of that.

This might be me just being naive but reality warpers are infamous for being very difficult to integrate into a story without jobbing them or toning down their powers.