Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[4sake Baned]

Monica and Carol might not even get along in the second movie. She didn't seem very excited when she was mentioned on Wandavision. Assuming the movie will be set in the present, it might address how long Carol has been off of earth, and how the relationship between them is probably been strained.

Possibly still would preferred she not be in Carol movie at all..

[Surf]

I mean, the writing is good and I like the actress they picked for her. But Wanda and Vision are supporting characters from the movies -- you know, unlike any of the Avengers who had their own movies, your Cap, Thor, Iron Man -- even Hulk, for all that his movies never did so great. So, Monica is a supporting character in a tv show based on supporting characters. Not exactly encouraging, as far as promoting the character..

I'm not sure how you can so definitely call them supporting characters when it's literally a team of superheroes. The cast is an ensemble. Kat Demmings and Woo are the supporting charaters. In terms of the show Monica is third behind the stars of the show and she's the only super. In the comics she first showed up in an Amazing annual but eventually led the Avengers, give it time.

As far as the Avengers having their own movies, Cap was the star full stop in TFA and from then on he was pretty much delegated to Avengers movies. Civil War was Cap 3 in name only. Folks were right when they called it Avengers 3. Monica can operate without a Carol. So can Sam and Rhodey but probably less so, hell Bucky needs Sam ar this point so what does that say. Nobody flies a flag over Mar-Vel being a legacy pejorative to Carol, same rules should apply to everyone else

[Adam Allen]

I'm not sure how you can so definitely call them supporting characters when it's literally a team of superheroes. The cast is an ensemble. Kat Demmings and Woo are the supporting charaters. In terms of the show Monica is third behind the stars of the show and she's the only super. In the comics she first showed up in an Amazing annual but eventually led the Avengers, give it time.

As far as the Avengers having their own movies, Cap was the star full stop in TFA and from then on he was pretty much delegated to Avengers movies. Civil War was Cap 3 in name only. Folks were right when they called it Avengers 3. Monica can operate without a Carol. So can Sam and Rhodey but probably less so, hell Bucky needs Sam ar this point so what does that say. Nobody flies a flag over Mar-Vel being a legacy pejorative to Carol, same rules should apply to everyone else

I feel like you're defending the characters like I'm calling them lame or something? That was not at all my point. I wouldn't be watching the show if I wasn't a fan of Wanda and Vision from the comics, and I already said I'm enjoying the show.

Also not casting any aspersions on Monica. I've been a fan since the 80s, and don't really care about if she's called "Captain Marvel" or not. I mean, I think that boat sailed a good while back, so whatever.

My whole point in even bringing it up is that I would much rather have seen her just given her own show, if not her own movie.

[MindofShadow]

I'm enjoying WandaVision, but mixed feelings about Monica Rambeau's place in the series.

I mean, the writing is good and I like the actress they picked for her. But Wanda and Vision are supporting characters from the movies -- you know, unlike any of the Avengers who had their own movies, your Cap, Thor, Iron Man -- even Hulk, for all that his movies never did so great. So, Monica is a supporting character in a tv show based on supporting characters. Not exactly encouraging, as far as promoting the character.

No idea what they plan for her, but I know her kid version was already introduced in Captain Marvel, and obviously it's one big consistent MCU. I guess I would have maybe preferred to see her at least take like a major role in the next Captain Marvel -- kind of like Furiosa in Fury Road -- or even show up in as an unexpectedly huge part of the Black Panther sequel. Playing on that comics Ultimates dynamic, kind of?

Of is she supposed to get a spinoff tv show? I guess that would not be so bad. They haven't shown her to have any powers just yet, though.

Monica was a late addition to the show according to Feige.

They are 100% setting up her getting powers and id imagine show up in CM2

Carol needs a new black side kick.

Not sure what you are worried about TBH? They set up the character in CM1, and are giving her depth (and likely powers) in WV. They have her associated with SWORD (which Carol is with in the newer comics). And they are already building tension between her and carol on purpose.

She is gonna be in CM2 for sure.

[Adam Allen]

I am not worried about anything. My mixed feelings are because I like the character as introduced well enough, but also think Monica is a character who did not need to be anyone's side kick.

Likewise though, I always thought she should have been given a higher profile in the comics, but I suppose that's just me.

Edit: To clarify the point about Fury Road, I think Furiosa was more the main character in that movie than Max, despite his name in the title. I doubt Monica's part in CM2 will be equally as central, but I could be wrong.

[Overhazard]

I am not worried about anything. My mixed feelings are because I like the character as introduced well enough, but also think Monica is a character who did not need to be anyone's side kick.

Likewise though, I always thought she should have been given a higher profile in the comics, but I suppose that's just me.

I think the second movie might have Carol deal with the fact that Maria is gone and "Lt. Trouble" is all grown up and probably doesn't idolize her anymore.

[Agent Z]

[godisawesome]

Okay, white guy question here:

Which would you guys say wound up being a more egregious issue in the Star Wars films: the treatment of Finn post-TFA, or the treatment of Rose post-TLJ?

They both suck, mind you, and both have some eerily similar aspects (Boyega wasn’t given a single line of dialogue with Ridley in TLJ and was shoved into a completely ancillary plot designed to fail pathetically, while Tran simply had most of her screen time reduced to almost nothing.)

Heck, I feel like I could argue Rose in TROS just got “Finn-in-TLJ-ed”; reduced and demoted down a level in significance and ambition, and replaced by a different possible romance option for their original suggested “dance partner”... yet I feel like Boyega as the male lead and as a more clear-cut success in TFA makes his issue a bigger case than Tran’s...

...But I’m also whiter than white rice on a slice of white bread in a blizzard, so my opinion just doesn’t have the authority of others. Thoughts?

[Overhazard]

Okay, white guy question here:

Which would you guys say wound up being a more egregious issue in the Star Wars films: the treatment of Finn post-TFA, or the treatment of Rose post-TLJ?

They both suck, mind you, and both have some eerily similar aspects (Boyega wasn’t given a single line of dialogue with Ridley in TLJ and was shoved into a completely ancillary plot designed to fail pathetically, while Tran simply had most of her screen time reduced to almost nothing.)

Heck, I feel like I could argue Rose in TROS just got “Finn-in-TLJ-ed”; reduced and demoted down a level in significance and ambition, and replaced by a different possible romance option for their original suggested “dance partner”... yet I feel like Boyega as the male lead and as a more clear-cut success in TFA makes his issue a bigger case than Tran’s...

...But I’m also whiter than white rice on a slice of white bread in a blizzard, so my opinion just doesn’t have the authority of others. Thoughts?

Wow rice and bread? In the same meal? That's a lot of carbs.

The way Finn was treated was bad, they way John Boyega was treated by KK and Lucasfilms was worse. When the first trailer dropped for TFA, Finn was marketed as the hero, you saw him with the lightsaber in his hand, ready to take on Kylo Ren. He was also holding the saber high in hand on the poster, except the one that was marketed to China. Then the movie came out. I was furious with Finn's treatment. He was a bumbling, incompetent oaf who constantly got his ass handed to him. One would think that a trained soldier could win at least one fight, Finn needed a hero moment and he never got one.

I remember a few thinkpieces and articles that called Finn a breath of fresh air because he was subverting norms of black masculinity, which made my head hurt.

"He's so vulnerable, sweet, soft, and caring!"

"He's also a doofus that chases the white woman who in turn is chasing the immature, violent, emotionally stunted, incel that assisted in an act of genocide on a galactic scale and murdered his own father."

They were clearly setting up a Finn/Rey romance but it was undone in favor of Kylo, which was also irritating, not as much as the shippers though.

Speaking of which Boyega was harassed by them after making a joke about Finn hooking up with Rey after Kylo died. They called him a misogynist. These are the same people who believe that Rey got pregnant with Kylo's force baby. These people really need to go outside, after they put their masks on of course.

Lucasfilm did John and Kelly dirty, just in different ways. They took John's love of star wars and pissed all over it so that the movies would do better in China. They also did a poor job defending Kelly after she was harassed off instagram by trolls and reducing her screen time thus giving those brain-surgeons what they wanted. They did Oscar Issac dirty too, he said he didn't want his character to lean into stereotypes, but in TLJ they made him the macho hot-headed latino and in TROS they made him a former drug runner. Hopefully Dune will be better.

[4sake Baned]

Wow rice and bread? In the same meal? That's a lot of carbs.

The way Finn was treated was bad, they way John Boyega was treated by KK and Lucasfilms was worse. When the first trailer dropped for TFA, Finn was marketed as the hero, you saw him with the lightsaber in his hand, ready to take on Kylo Ren. He was also holding the saber high in hand on the poster, except the one that was marketed to China. Then the movie came out. I was furious with Finn's treatment. He was a bumbling, incompetent oaf who constantly got his ass handed to him. One would think that a trained soldier could win at least one fight, Finn needed a hero moment and he never got one.

I remember a few thinkpieces and articles that called Finn a breath of fresh air because he was subverting norms of black masculinity, which made my head hurt.

"He's so vulnerable, sweet, soft, and caring!"

"He's also a doofus that chases the white woman who in turn is chasing the immature, violent, emotionally stunted, incel that assisted in an act of genocide on a galactic scale and murdered his own father."

They were clearly setting up a Finn/Rey romance but it was undone in favor of Kylo, which was also irritating, not as much as the shippers though.

Speaking of which Boyega was harassed by them after making a joke about Finn hooking up with Rey after Kylo died. They called him a misogynist. These are the same people who believe that Rey got pregnant with Kylo's force baby. These people really need to go outside, after they put their masks on of course.

Lucasfilm did John and Kelly dirty, just in different ways. They took John's love of star wars and pissed all over it so that the movies would do better in China. They also did a poor job defending Kelly after she was harassed off instagram by trolls and reducing her screen time thus giving those brain-surgeons what they wanted. They did Oscar Issac dirty too, he said he didn't want his character to lean into stereotypes, but in TLJ they made him the macho hot-headed latino and in TROS they made him a former drug runner. Hopefully Dune will be better.

I am not worried about anything. My mixed feelings are because I like the character as introduced well enough, but also think Monica is a character who did not need to be anyone's side kick.

Likewise though, I always thought she should have been given a higher profile in the comics, but I suppose that's just me.

Edit: To clarify the point about Fury Road, I think Furiosa was more the main character in that movie than Max, despite his name in the title. I doubt Monica's part in CM2 will be equally as central, but I could be wrong.

Agrees completely with these points

[Agent Z]

TIL Betty Boop was partly based on a black woman.

https://www.thecut.com/2017/03/the-f...etty-boop.html

[Username taken]

Okay, white guy question here:

Which would you guys say wound up being a more egregious issue in the Star Wars films: the treatment of Finn post-TFA, or the treatment of Rose post-TLJ?

They both suck, mind you, and both have some eerily similar aspects (Boyega wasn’t given a single line of dialogue with Ridley in TLJ and was shoved into a completely ancillary plot designed to fail pathetically, while Tran simply had most of her screen time reduced to almost nothing.)

Heck, I feel like I could argue Rose in TROS just got “Finn-in-TLJ-ed”; reduced and demoted down a level in significance and ambition, and replaced by a different possible romance option for their original suggested “dance partner”... yet I feel like Boyega as the male lead and as a more clear-cut success in TFA makes his issue a bigger case than Tran’s...

...But I’m also whiter than white rice on a slice of white bread in a blizzard, so my opinion just doesn’t have the authority of others. Thoughts?

What Lucasfilm did was embarrassing. Boyega was placed front and centre of the marketing for the TFA only for his character to end up being a nothing. I don't care what anyone says, the sequel trilogy treated Finn like a nothing and ended the series as nothing. This is a classic case of commodification of minorities where they are only used for marketing but add nothing to the narrative. Since Lucasfilm wanted to Rey to be the centre of the narrative, there was literally no need to use Boyega as the misdirect.

Tran's treatment was just disgusting. It was so bad that someone took their time to vandalize her wookiepedia page. How hateful can you get? And what was Lucasfilm's response, "lets treat her like Jar Jar Binks". Embarrassing nonsense especially considering that Tran had to shut down some of her social media accounts due to this abuse.

Not once, did Lucasfilm/Disney speak up about the racist abuse that Boyega and Tran received. People have built YouTube channels and made money off insulting these actors and yet Lucasfilm/Disney acted like its nothing. At what point is the abuse too much? They only just recently spoke up about the abuse that one of their employees was getting but they're a little late to the party.

The fallout has been so messy that Boyega doesn't even want to partake in Star Wars anymore. It's so sad because Boyega was a big, big Star Wars fan. Ultimately, the treatment of both of these actors was disgusting.

[MindofShadow]

What is weird is that then, these same toxic star wars fans turned around and cried about not getting to see Finn's story.

There hate for Rey exceeded everything else in the end.

It was the Star Wars version of Captain Marvel.

[Besouro]

What is weird is that then, these same toxic star wars fans turned around and cried about not getting to see Finn's story.

There hate for Rey exceeded everything else in the end.

It was the Star Wars version of Captain Marvel.

I disagree with the Captn Marvel comparison.

If CM was that way then so was WW1 and Atomic Blond and almost every female lead movie where the lead lady "exceeded everything".

Please do NOT let your issues with Brie Larson (if u have issues with the actress) cloud what the movie of CM is?

There is an infinity of male led movies where the guy "exceeded everything"... I don't see u complaining.

[Besouro]

I disagree with the Captn Marvel comparison.

If CM was that way then so was WW1 and Atomic Blond and almost every female lead movie where the lead lady "exceeded everything".

Please do NOT let your issues with Brie Larson (if u have issues with the actress) cloud what the movie of CM is?

There is an infinity of male led movies where the guy "exceeded everything"... I don't see u complaining.

Having said that... I do agree that Lucasfilm submitting to #Reylo insanity caused by TLJ is what ruined the sequel trilogy.

And u are right about Finnrey being the original intended romance. Finn and Tran were utterly and completely screws over.

MARK....MY.... WORD= The next Starwars movie sequels will feature a black chick in romance with a white guy and Kathleen Kennedy will claim it's a "correction" of their errors in the sequel trilogy.

Y'ALL HESRD IT HERE FIRST!