Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[Besouro]

I do agree that Finnrey was the intended romance until Lucasfilm stupidly succumbed to the #reylo insanity sparked by TLJ director/writer Rian Johnson.

Boyega was totally against the direction of Finn in TLJ right from the get-go and even called out the director during cast interview promos in front of a live audience.

https://youtu.be/n06cosq93r8

Disney probably have Boyega a warning to control his low-key hints .....then when it was all over Boyega was like ...now this is the real story.

[Will Evans]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9-lfoJcwKls

Anyone disagree with this villains list?

Egyptian guys like Apocalypse and Shadow King are left off though.

[godisawesome]

What is weird is that then, these same toxic star wars fans turned around and cried about not getting to see Finn's story.

There hate for Rey exceeded everything else in the end.

It was the Star Wars version of Captain Marvel.

I actually think those fans are more likely to be separate than singular - or at least, that the situation is much more nuanced than that.

TFA is the only film that saw any positive investment in Finn on the audience’s part. While the head-fake was bad... I think the other elements were strong: people like Boyega as the male lead, they liked his origin, they liked his relationship with Rey, and they liked the potential he still had. And in general, the fans most excited about Rey still had excitement about Finn.

The most toxic elements of racists complaining about Finn and Rey didn’t stop TFA from making $700 million more than the other two films, and both those characters were at their most popular when they were the main relationship and focus of the story.

TLJ changed the equation, but not in one singular way, but several.

Rey became much less popular, as a bunch of her TFA fans turned on the pseudo-Reylo story of TLJ or found that it wasn’t her power-level or being female that upset them, but rather being told she wasn’t a Skywalker - and in a way that pitted her story against the family’s, often with weirdly ignorant or biased proclamations that the desert-slave descended Skywalkers were too elitist to be the lead hero again... but also that Kylo should surpass Finn as the male lead and that Rey should focus on him instead.

I think there’s a distinction that needs to be made between the people whining about “Mary Sue” Rey in TFA yet failing to make any substantial impact on its box office take, and the post-TLJ fans who lost interest or turned on the character for Reylo and making them choose between Kylo RO damning the Skywalkers.

And I’d say that TLJ was markedly worse than TFA for Finn. If nothing else, Finn could still claim a prominent, story-fueling role in the A-plot of TFA, and Boyega got numerous scenes to showcase his range, charisma, chemistry, and physical talent, actually got a major confrontation with the main villain, an important relationship with an OT3 member, and his character was effectively the center of Rey’s world at the end of the movie. The lightsaber fake-out just doesn’t compare to TLJ regressing his character arc, shunting him off into a side-story of a side-story about him failing because he doesn’t listen to the white woman authority figure also partaking in deeply suspect story with Poe, while also having him lectured about slavery when he himself is a former slave, in an arc clearly designed more to demote him and separate him from Rey than anything else.

There’s a reason why Boyega defended Abrams even after TROS, and went from seeming excited about TROS during filming to being one of the first cast members to express a lack of enthusiasm before it was released. Reading both what he literally said and what’s between the lines, it feels like Abrams tried to give Boyega as worthy story in TROS and may have had LFL order it cut down in editing. I mena, th earliest concept art for Finn’s Star Destroyer battle story apparently featured him going Jedi pirate with a lightsaber during it, and we’ve got confirmation that his scenes confiding in Rey about the Force were cut, as was a lot of stuff with Company 77.

TFA was far from perfect, but I think it deserves to be seen as at least taking baby steps forward both for minorities and women... and then TLJ takes two large steps back on both fronts, with LFL wanting to construe that direction because it allowed them to focus more on Adam Driver, who was the actor Kennedy wanted to be the star earlier.

[MindofShadow]

I disagree with the Captn Marvel comparison.

If CM was that way then so was WW1 and Atomic Blond and almost every female lead movie where the lead lady "exceeded everything".

Please do NOT let your issues with Brie Larson (if u have issues with the actress) cloud what the movie of CM is?

There is an infinity of male led movies where the guy "exceeded everything"... I don't see u complaining.

I think you are misreading what I wrote? I don't care about Rey or Carol lol?

"these same toxic star wars fans" =/= me

Toxic star wars fans used to love hating on Finn and trolling Finn stuff in the usual places... until they started hating Rey more and then turned around an were mad Finn didn't get a story.

Just like toxic MCU fans hated on BP and the like until there hate for Brie/Carol became all consuming and now they don't give a shit about BP. (I know, I mod the Marvel reddit)

[godisawesome]

I think you are misreading what I wrote? I don't care about Rey or Carol lol?

"these same toxic star wars fans" =/= me

Toxic star wars fans used to love hating on Finn and trolling Finn stuff in the usual places... until they started hating Rey more and then turned around an were mad Finn didn't get a story.

Just like toxic MCU fans hated on BP and the like until there hate for Brie/Carol became all consuming and now they don't give a shit about BP. (I know, I mod the Marvel reddit)

And I think that’s more likely to be two different groups - that the toxic fans you’re talking about are different from the TFA fans of Rey and Finn pissed at TLJ, and that the second group is actually larger, as demonstrated by the decrease in the ST’s money making abilities.

I just feel that there are likely as many or more pissed off Rey fans who hated Reylo, or pissed off Finn fans who hate TLJ significantly more, than the ones who bitched during TFA marketing and might have shifted their arguments to try and look better.

I’m using my experience as a mod on Jedi Council Forums - where in general, TLJ and Reylo fans have gradually been scared off by the arguments of Rey and Finn fans from TFA that TLJ screwed up a workable-to-good thing in favor of what wound up being a sexist and racist story focused on Kylo at Rey and Finn’s expense.

And I tend to see similar dynamics elsewhere as well, though with different numbers of supporters for the different opinions as people naturally gravitate towards similar opinions to their own. I mean, there are places I can call Kylo “the Neo-Nazi School Shooter who tried to Mind Rape Rey” and places I can’t, and generally on one side you’ve got people who at least liked Rey and Finn in TFA, and people who are apathetic to them or turned on them in favor of Kylo on the other.

...Like, flat out, I tend to think that hardcore Reylo fans were the ones Johnson and LFL started catering towards, and they have a quieter, more insidious type of sexism and racism going on than the TFA haters.

[MindofShadow]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9-lfoJcwKls

Anyone disagree with this villains list?

Egyptian guys like Apocalypse and Shadow King are left off though.

Pretty much just shows how awful black villains are.

Killmonger being #2 despite being a complete non-factor outside of BP comics points to that.

Hell, right now there is a huge symbiote event and current comic killmonger is using a symbiote nad it means nothing lol.

[Adam Allen]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9-lfoJcwKls

Anyone disagree with this villains list?

Egyptian guys like Apocalypse and Shadow King are left off though.

I disagree that Prowler, Bronze Tiger, and Amanda Waller really count as villains. Which does show how awful the black villains are, like the man said, because they would also be the three I'm most fond of, from the list.

[Will Evans]

I thought it he should have included Tobias Whale and Tombstone, if he was including Killer Croc.

I’m surprised they aren’t more black sorcerer villains.


It would seem like something the majority of comic writers would have done over the last 90 years.

Just Black Talon and Papa Midnight.

[Frontier]

I disagree that Prowler, Bronze Tiger, and Amanda Waller really count as villains. Which does show how awful the black villains are, like the man said, because they would also be the three I'm most fond of, from the list.

Yeah, Waller kind of toes the line (and it depends which Prowler we're talking about) but they usually lean more to the heroic side.

[MindofShadow]

I thought it he should have included Tobias Whale and Tombstone, if he was including Killer Croc.

I’m surprised they aren’t more black sorcerer villains.


It would seem like something the majority of comic writers would have done over the last 90 years.

Just Black Talon and Papa Midnight.

I think Baron Macabre (from black panther) is supposed to be african.

Also, Tetu has magic based powers.

[Will Evans]

I think Baron Macabre (from black panther) is supposed to be african.

Also, Tetu has magic based powers.

True.

And they both made Black Panther’s top 20

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n0b7zklV-T0

[Agent Z]

I thought it he should have included Tobias Whale and Tombstone, if he was including Killer Croc.

I’m surprised they aren’t more black sorcerer villains.


It would seem like something the majority of comic writers would have done over the last 90 years.

Just Black Talon and Papa Midnight.

Not too surprising when you consider the lack of black sorcerer heroes as well.

[Will Evans]

Not too surprising when you consider the lack of black sorcerer heroes as well.

Brother Voodoo, Dr Mist and ....that’s all I can think of.


I do see Calypso was on the original list though. And I forgot about Marie Laveau.

[Nate Grey]

Brother Voodoo, Dr Mist and ....that’s all I can think of.

Bloodwynd. Looking at his history, though, it seems DC doesn't quite know what to do with him so they sideline him a lot. Looks like the story where he was most active was when he was impersonated by Martian Manhunter, so it wasn't even really him but J'onn.

[Agent Z]

Brother Voodoo, Dr Mist and ....that’s all I can think of.


I do see Calypso was on the original list though. And I forgot about Marie Laveau.

Bloodwynd. Looking at his history, though, it seems DC doesn't quite know what to do with him so they sideline him a lot. Looks like the story where he was most active was when he was impersonated by Martian Manhunter, so it wasn't even really him but J'onn.

There is also Antia Fite from the Young Justice comic and Pia Morales from Mystik U.

For examples outside of the Big 2, there is Rada Beauregard from the recent Lady Death comics and Alyssa Myles from Valiant's Shadow Man.