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  1. #7756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I can understand wanting to involve different cultures on screen, but that should involve it behind thr screen too, in such ways as would prevent awkward or stereotypical presentations
    Jazz, Blaster and while we are at it-Devastator, Iceberg (GI Joe), Alpine, Roadblock, Doc, Stalker and Destro were all voiced by black men.

    Blaster and Doc shared the same voice guy. Who also did Black Vulcan and Lothar and his son on Defenders of the Earth.
    Devastator, Destro & Iceberg did too.
    Roadblock was voiced by Kene Holiday from Matlock.

    Alpine by the now 91 year old Lee Weaver and husband of Room 222's Ta-Tanisha.

    For Transformers-the show was mainly worked on by the Japanese. And it was an already established toy line when it finally got here.

    Also when Hasbro went to Marvel to help with the series-Bob Budiansky got the gig with all the bios after Denny O'Neil got fed up with Hasbro and everyone else at the company declined.

    I would SUSPECT among those declining since they were working at Marvel at the time-Larry Hama & Christopher Priest. Hama was doing GI JOE. Priest just did Falcon and was working on Powerman & Ironfist.

    Not like everybody did not have a shot at them. The series followed what Bob did for that first mini series.

    It should be noted one of the assistants working under Bob at that time -DWAYNE MCDUFFIE. Yes THAT McDuffie.

  2. #7757
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    That's a good point. Goliath from Gargoyles was Black-coded for the same reason.

  3. #7758
    Amazing Member Adam Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    For any Transformers fans here, can I get your thoughts on the "black coded" Transformers, Jazz and Blaster.
    My memory of the characters from the original cartoon is pretty hazy at this point, and I don't know the new stuff (movies or new cartoons) well enough to comment ... oh, except that I have seen clips of a pair from the movies that was ... well, let's say "unfortunate", in their execution, as far as trying to code those characters as black.

    Memory of the old characters though ... well, honestly don't even recall what Jazz sounded like, and my kid-impression of Blaster was positive enough, though I think (even though I likely recognized he was meant to be black) his seeming like a radio dj struck me more than that he was coded as black. The point being I suppose, no negative impression of either of those characters being coded as black?

    As far as the idea in general of making some of the giant robot aliens seem black ... you know, I guess it's kind of strange on one hand, but on the other, you're basically coding characters according to their voice actors, anyway. That is, most of these alien robot characters are in fact coded as white by default, because you cast white voice actors to help create them. In consideration of that, I don't have a problem with casting actors of different ethnicities to voice some of the characters. I would think writers/directors should shy away from trying to lean into writing dialogue that's meant to specifically evoke any given ethnicity, since these are in fact supposed to be aliens, from a completely different world than ours ... but I guess, it's kind of like, Lindsay Ellis has a whole video about why they initially decided there should not be any female Transformers in the Bay movies. They said it would be weird, since these are robots, but she points out how clearly the robots are nonetheless coded as male, so if you're going to do that, making some female would be no less weird -- more weird, in fact, if you only had the male ones, but no female ones. I think she made a good argument.
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  4. #7759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    My memory of the characters from the original cartoon is pretty hazy at this point, and I don't know the new stuff (movies or new cartoons) well enough to comment ... oh, except that I have seen clips of a pair from the movies that was ... well, let's say "unfortunate", in their execution, as far as trying to code those characters as black.

    Memory of the old characters though ... well, honestly don't even recall what Jazz sounded like, and my kid-impression of Blaster was positive enough, though I think (even though I likely recognized he was meant to be black) his seeming like a radio dj struck me more than that he was coded as black. The point being I suppose, no negative impression of either of those characters being coded as black?
    Scatman Cruthers was the voice of Jazz in the cartoon and Darius from Family Matters did the live action movie.

    Blaster was the DJ of tranformers.

    Now those movies....a different conversation.



    In harassment news

    The United States of Cap America has introduced Nichelle Wright, a black woman inspired by CA.

    Which mean the USUSAL suspects are throwing fits on Twitter and going AT the arist Natacha Bustos.

    Meanwhile Synch on the main X-Men book. Isn't as accepted as many would hope.

  5. #7760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    As far as the idea in general of making some of the giant robot aliens seem black ... you know, I guess it's kind of strange on one hand, but on the other, you're basically coding characters according to their voice actors, anyway. That is, most of these alien robot characters are in fact coded as white by default, because you cast white voice actors to help create them. In consideration of that, I don't have a problem with casting actors of different ethnicities to voice some of the characters. I would think writers/directors should shy away from trying to lean into writing dialogue that's meant to specifically evoke any given ethnicity, since these are in fact supposed to be aliens, from a completely different world than ours ... but I guess, it's kind of like, Lindsay Ellis has a whole video about why they initially decided there should not be any female Transformers in the Bay movies. They said it would be weird, since these are robots, but she points out how clearly the robots are nonetheless coded as male, so if you're going to do that, making some female would be no less weird -- more weird, in fact, if you only had the male ones, but no female ones. I think she made a good argument.
    That argument makes sense. White and male seem to be the default coding for everything

  6. #7761

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    So what was up with Ironhide then?

  7. #7762
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    Scatman Crothers shall remain untarnished as Jazz.




    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    So what was up with Ironhide then?
    I just thought of him as a redneck with a heart of gold.

  8. #7763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    So what was up with Ironhide then?
    The redneck with a heart of gold.

  9. #7764
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    So, I've been thinking about Fal/WS a bit. Mostly because, since I mod on reddit, I've been dealing with a lot of... whining about politics (and the sweet sweet fun of banning the whiners).

    What I don't really understand is that... white people haven't been directly challenged in the show at all.

    We have had what... one cop being a dick to Sam for no reason and then Bucky spoilers:
    saying steve and him never thought that giving a shield to a black guy would be hard for him
    end of spoilers. And then the bank guy, which could go either way (was he being racist or was the Wilson family a bad investment especially due to the snap? Debatable imo).

    That... that is really it. You are talking about a combined what... 3 mins in 5 hours of show?

    The Isiah talk was just a history lesson in comic book forum that people should already know about. It was literally PULLED from the comics... so why are comic fans bitching about the show being "too political!! I just want to watch a comic book show!"

    Other than that... the government never took the shield from Sam, Sam willingly gave it away. Theyve not shown any TV talking heads talking bad about Sam. If the comic book show really pulled from the comics... Spencers run was much more "direct" with how conservative media would have handled this.

    It just really seems like all the whining and complaining is that they either don't know the history AT ALL so they think the Isiah stuff is "marvel pushing politics!" on them... or they are projecting so hard and made so uncomfortable by any mention of race stuff that they run tot he internet to bitch about it.

    IMO... if anyone should be "uncomfortable" about the show, it should be black people right after Isiah's talk. His ending sentence is a gut punch. Black people should be bitching about politics because the talk took it out of "fun fantasy land" and put it right in your face.
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  10. #7765
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    So, I've been thinking about Fal/WS a bit. Mostly because, since I mod on reddit, I've been dealing with a lot of... whining about politics (and the sweet sweet fun of banning the whiners).

    What I don't really understand is that... white people haven't been directly challenged in the show at all.

    We have had what... one cop being a dick to Sam for no reason and then Bucky spoilers:
    saying steve and him never thought that giving a shield to a black guy would be hard for him
    end of spoilers. And then the bank guy, which could go either way (was he being racist or was the Wilson family a bad investment especially due to the snap? Debatable imo).

    That... that is really it. You are talking about a combined what... 3 mins in 5 hours of show?

    The Isiah talk was just a history lesson in comic book forum that people should already know about. It was literally PULLED from the comics... so why are comic fans bitching about the show being "too political!! I just want to watch a comic book show!"

    Other than that... the government never took the shield from Sam, Sam willingly gave it away. Theyve not shown any TV talking heads talking bad about Sam. If the comic book show really pulled from the comics... Spencers run was much more "direct" with how conservative media would have handled this.

    It just really seems like all the whining and complaining is that they either don't know the history AT ALL so they think the Isiah stuff is "marvel pushing politics!" on them... or they are projecting so hard and made so uncomfortable by any mention of race stuff that they run tot he internet to bitch about it.

    IMO... if anyone should be "uncomfortable" about the show, it should be black people right after Isiah's talk. His ending sentence is a gut punch. Black people should be bitching about politics because the talk took it out of "fun fantasy land" and put it right in your face.
    It's from whiny right-wing folks who can't handle how actually racist this country is, despite this show only somewhat delving into it.

    The question remains whether Isaiah is totally right, or not

  11. #7766
    Astonishing Member Overhazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    So, I've been thinking about Fal/WS a bit. Mostly because, since I mod on reddit, I've been dealing with a lot of... whining about politics (and the sweet sweet fun of banning the whiners).

    What I don't really understand is that... white people haven't been directly challenged in the show at all.

    We have had what... one cop being a dick to Sam for no reason and then Bucky spoilers:
    saying steve and him never thought that giving a shield to a black guy would be hard for him
    end of spoilers. And then the bank guy, which could go either way (was he being racist or was the Wilson family a bad investment especially due to the snap? Debatable imo).

    That... that is really it. You are talking about a combined what... 3 mins in 5 hours of show?

    The Isiah talk was just a history lesson in comic book forum that people should already know about. It was literally PULLED from the comics... so why are comic fans bitching about the show being "too political!! I just want to watch a comic book show!"

    Other than that... the government never took the shield from Sam, Sam willingly gave it away. Theyve not shown any TV talking heads talking bad about Sam. If the comic book show really pulled from the comics... Spencers run was much more "direct" with how conservative media would have handled this.

    It just really seems like all the whining and complaining is that they either don't know the history AT ALL so they think the Isiah stuff is "marvel pushing politics!" on them... or they are projecting so hard and made so uncomfortable by any mention of race stuff that they run tot he internet to bitch about it.

    IMO... if anyone should be "uncomfortable" about the show, it should be black people right after Isiah's talk. His ending sentence is a gut punch. Black people should be bitching about politics because the talk took it out of "fun fantasy land" and put it right in your face.
    Reddit, woof. I mean I like reddit, but it's mostly overrun by teenagers and 20 somethings who really don't know what they're talking about most of the time, but they're too arrogant to admit it. Probably why they love Elon Musk so much (Seriously, none of them see the irony in how much they hate religion but they treat Musk like the second coming, reddit hates children as much as they love Mr. Rogers.)

    A lot of the whining about politics is projection, them thinking that those pesky SJWs are trying to take something away from them, when that isn't the case. Or they say something to the effect of; "SEE THIS IS WHY I STICK WITH ANIME, CAUSE ANIME DOESN'T TALK ABOUT POLITICS!!!!!"

    They weren't paying attention.

    One Piece's Fishman Island arc was about how stupid racism, slavery, and discrimination is. The current arc, Wano, is Oda's statement on fudal japan.
    The ethos of mobile suit gundam boils down to "War is hell."
    Shin Godzilla was Anno's take on the japanese governments response to the fukushima disaster. Really good movie by the way, I'm looking forward to Shin Kamen Rider, and all the body horror that's going to come with it.

    The social issues addressed on Falcon and Winter Soldier aren't as clunky and ham-fisted as they are on the CW shows. The whiners should be grateful for that. Supergirl still kind of beats you over the head with THIS IS A FEMINIST SHOW, YOU GUYS GET IT!!!?? Supergirl still doesn't really address race well. I remember an episode of her going to mars, and all the martians on the show are black, so it had a blond haired, blue eyed white woman pummeling a bunch of black people.

    They tried using aliens as a metaphor for refugees, but a villain used the genocide of the natives as an excuse to kill aliens. Given the option, I'll take Isaiah's speech.

  12. #7767
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    So, I've been thinking about Fal/WS a bit. Mostly because, since I mod on reddit, I've been dealing with a lot of... whining about politics (and the sweet sweet fun of banning the whiners).

    What I don't really understand is that... white people haven't been directly challenged in the show at all.

    We have had what... one cop being a dick to Sam for no reason and then Bucky spoilers:
    saying steve and him never thought that giving a shield to a black guy would be hard for him
    end of spoilers. And then the bank guy, which could go either way (was he being racist or was the Wilson family a bad investment especially due to the snap? Debatable imo).

    That... that is really it. You are talking about a combined what... 3 mins in 5 hours of show?

    The Isiah talk was just a history lesson in comic book forum that people should already know about. It was literally PULLED from the comics... so why are comic fans bitching about the show being "too political!! I just want to watch a comic book show!"

    Other than that... the government never took the shield from Sam, Sam willingly gave it away. Theyve not shown any TV talking heads talking bad about Sam. If the comic book show really pulled from the comics... Spencers run was much more "direct" with how conservative media would have handled this.

    It just really seems like all the whining and complaining is that they either don't know the history AT ALL so they think the Isiah stuff is "marvel pushing politics!" on them... or they are projecting so hard and made so uncomfortable by any mention of race stuff that they run tot he internet to bitch about it.

    IMO... if anyone should be "uncomfortable" about the show, it should be black people right after Isiah's talk. His ending sentence is a gut punch. Black people should be bitching about politics because the talk took it out of "fun fantasy land" and put it right in your face.
    There are some thin-skinned myopic idiots out there, and social media allows them to stay in contact.

    This show has been pretty soft, so far, but clearly it grates like sandpaper to them.
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  13. #7768
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post

    This show has been pretty soft, so far, but clearly it grates like sandpaper to them.
    Really... yeah.

    Imagine the show starting off with various TV news outlets bitching about Sam having the shield. More similar to the comics.
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  14. #7769
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    Scatman Crothers shall remain untarnished as Jazz.






    I just thought of him as a redneck with a heart of gold.
    Transformers really seems to like that archetype. Ironhide in G1, X-Brawn in Robots in Disguise, Scattorshot in Cybertron.

  15. #7770
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    So, I've been thinking about Fal/WS a bit. Mostly because, since I mod on reddit, I've been dealing with a lot of... whining about politics (and the sweet sweet fun of banning the whiners).

    What I don't really understand is that... white people haven't been directly challenged in the show at all.

    We have had what... one cop being a dick to Sam for no reason and then Bucky spoilers:
    saying steve and him never thought that giving a shield to a black guy would be hard for him
    end of spoilers. And then the bank guy, which could go either way (was he being racist or was the Wilson family a bad investment especially due to the snap? Debatable imo).

    That... that is really it. You are talking about a combined what... 3 mins in 5 hours of show?

    The Isiah talk was just a history lesson in comic book forum that people should already know about. It was literally PULLED from the comics... so why are comic fans bitching about the show being "too political!! I just want to watch a comic book show!"

    Other than that... the government never took the shield from Sam, Sam willingly gave it away. Theyve not shown any TV talking heads talking bad about Sam. If the comic book show really pulled from the comics... Spencers run was much more "direct" with how conservative media would have handled this.

    It just really seems like all the whining and complaining is that they either don't know the history AT ALL so they think the Isiah stuff is "marvel pushing politics!" on them... or they are projecting so hard and made so uncomfortable by any mention of race stuff that they run tot he internet to bitch about it.

    IMO... if anyone should be "uncomfortable" about the show, it should be black people right after Isiah's talk. His ending sentence is a gut punch. Black people should be bitching about politics because the talk took it out of "fun fantasy land" and put it right in your face.
    Keep in mind that the show actually lightens up compared to the comics. In the comics, Isaiah spent 17 years in jail before being pardoned by Eisenhower and suffered brain damage.

    It reminds me of how the Static Shock cartoon got bashed for being "preachy" despite the show rarely tackling heavy topics and adapting out some heavier elements (Hotstreak isn't racist like his comic counterpart for instance).

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