Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[Besouro]

Speaking of Jai Courtney and Mortal Kombat, pretty much every gay MK fan was pissed that Jai didn't play Kano. Hell I've never even played an MK game and even I was pissed Jai didn't play Kano, big missed opportunity there lol.

The actor who played Kano was PERFECT.....TOO PERFECT to the point I think Jai wouldn't top that dude.

[Overhazard]

The actor who played Kano was PERFECT.....TOO PERFECT to the point I think Jai wouldn't top that dude.

I really think I have to give this movie a watch. As much as I love fighting games, I've never been into Mortal Kombat, a little too gory for my liking.

[Agent Z]

Malcolm Spellman on Lemar Hoskins's death.

According to showrunner/head writer Malcolm Spellman, the creative team was well aware of the murky territory it was wandering into with its characterization of Lemar. In a recent interview on the Fade to Black podcast, Spellman explained why, as he sees it, there was no real way to get Walker to where they wanted the character in the show without killing Lemar, despite the fact that doing that played into the very trope it’s meant to be pushing back against.

“From the movies I saw all from the beginning of the ‘80s all the way through now, the purpose of the Black character was either magical negro whose job is to service a white character, and once that white character has gone on their journey, the magical negro disappears,” Spellman said. “Or, the Black guy or girl, but 99% of the time, guy, who’s there to get killed somewhere near the end of act two.”

In Spellman’s view, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was in the clear to kill off Lemar because “we earned it by telling all these other stories with heart,”

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-falcon-a...-to-1846772211

[Username taken]

I started watching this series on HBO Max- Euphoria because I've heard some good stuff and that Zendaya played a very mature role for the first time in her career.

I must say this series is intense. A little too intense and far too graphic IMHO.

I mean, we all know how difficult growing up is for some young people but the extremes the series takes it to makes me wonder- why? I don't know why "trauma" and "mental illness"is being romanticized in media and is treated as part of a learning and growing process. It really isn't. I don't know when exactly it happened but I see a lot of fiction using stuff like these as "character quirks" and it kind of desensitizes people towards the issues because storylines are focusing on how "interesting" it makes these characters.

Zendaya is an unrepetant drug addict, another character is sexually assaulted in one episode, another one has a sex tape of her leaked and she goes into the "webcam business", another character brutally assaults a young man because he slept with his ex-girlfriend at a pool party e.t.c.

And I don't think I needed to see so much male frontal nudity...seriously, the series gave up so many close-up of male pee pee that I had to fast forward a lot of scenes.

All in all, I think it comes across as a little "edgelord" which was kind of disappointing because there are some really interesting plotlines in it.

[MindofShadow]

He didn't have the haircut

He had a terribly bad flubby "dad bod"

Not my Jax!

He's not Terry Crews but come on man, dad bod lol



oh lawd the steve harvey photoshops are making me chuckle lol

[MindofShadow]

Malcolm Spellman on Lemar Hoskins's death.



https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-falcon-a...-to-1846772211

I don't think he's wrong.

The problem with the "trope" is that it was the only character a black dude got to play.

Obviously, the show had minorities in all roles.

[Overhazard]

I started watching this series on HBO Max- Euphoria because I've heard some good stuff and that Zendaya played a very mature role for the first time in her career.

I must say this series is intense. A little too intense and far too graphic IMHO.

I mean, we all know how difficult growing up is for some young people but the extremes the series takes it to makes me wonder- why? I don't know why "trauma" and "mental illness"is being romanticized in media and is treated as part of a learning and growing process. It really isn't. I don't know when exactly it happened but I see a lot of fiction using stuff like these as "character quirks" and it kind of desensitizes people towards the issues because storylines are focusing on how "interesting" it makes these characters.

Zendaya is an unrepentant drug addict, another character is sexually assaulted in one episode, another one has a sex tape of her leaked and she goes into the "webcam business", another character brutally assaults a young man because he slept with his ex-girlfriend at a pool party e.t.c.

And I don't think I needed to see so much male frontal nudity...seriously, the series gave up so many close-up of male pee pee that I had to fast forward a lot of scenes.

All in all, I think it comes across as a little "edgelord" which was kind of disappointing because there are some really interesting plotlines in it.

There is a general feeling of cynicism, malaise, and nihilism that permeates media today. I feel bad for kids these days. I really do. I like to think this started with 13 Reasons Why on Netflix but it probably didn't. That show romanticized suicide as a revenge fantasy. Netflix screened the show to a psychologist before airing the show, the psychologist told them not to air it because of the romanticism, they did anyway, it lasted 4 seasons.

The way media talks about mental health and therapy bothers me. Therapy is viewed as a one size fits all solution to mental health problems, when it isn't. Too much burden is thrust upon individuals to "fix themselves" when most people's mental health problems are due to systemic issues. It's just easier to tell people to pull themselves up by their psychological bootstraps. If you can't go to therapy, then use betterhelp, if you can't afford that, then go to the library and read self help books.

[MindofShadow]

The way media talks about mental health and therapy bothers me.

It is even worse on bigger social media places.

Reddit thinks every single wrong thing a person does... from sleeping past their alarm to shooting up a school is "i'm sure they have mental health issues." Wait, let me rephrase a bit, every single wrong thing a white person does. You are 100% on the nose about the system issues... those are 100% ignored. So naw, black kid in the hood gets in a gang fight? That's suddenly not mental health, this is just those stupid little....

Also, everything can be fixed with therapy! Which then just segways into bitching about the price of therapy which then just segways into private healthcare bitching.

On the flipside, you have Instagram. Where every half naked chick eventually makes a post about depression/anxiety/trauma/eating disorder/something to the point it almost comes off fake as hell and used to get more dopamine hearts clicked (and increase how much some of them are paid). it is like really... all of you?

On one hand it is probaly good to talk about this stuff instead of hiding it away... but it seems it has gone way too far in the other direction. Maybe. I don't know.

[Adam Allen]

Malcolm Spellman on Lemar Hoskins's death.



https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-falcon-a...-to-1846772211

Um ... I don't see how they pushed back against the trope, at all. They just played right into it. They were doing just fine showing Walker as unstable and on edge leading up to killing Lemar, so I don't accept that this was the only way to give him a moment that would result in him killing someone. Giving him a loyal, wise, and patient black best friend who both humanizes him and also causes the pivotal turn in his character arc -- again, you're just completely playing into the trope of killing off the black guy as part of the white guy's story.

Though Karli and Lemar, two of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier’s most high-profile Black characters, are now dead in the ground, Walker’s still quite alive and seemingly being primed for a future in the MCU. The unevenness of Walker’s characterization throughout the series at first seemed like it might be a scripting or directing choice, but Spellman attributed much of the character’s weird vibes to actor Wyatt Russell directly, and is confident that it’s going to serve the character well going forward.

I'd add Zemo still being alive, too. Not that I was particularly fond of Karli's character -- I wasn't, I thought she was given a meandering storyline with vague motivations punctuated by random acts of terrorism, with no real reason given for the audience to sympathize with her anywhere near as much as the show seemed to want -- but I do think that making Battlestar and Karli just disposable while prepping these two for likely future appearances reflects a bias and lack of self-awareness on the part of the people who made the show. Killing people of color to mark your major dramatic moments is not cool, and no, the fact that the main character is black doesn't make it better. It's not like this show somehow exists outside of the context of the rest of western civilization.

[Overhazard]

It is even worse on bigger social media places.

Reddit thinks every single wrong thing a person does... from sleeping past their alarm to shooting up a school is "i'm sure they have mental health issues." Wait, let me rephrase a bit, every single wrong thing a white person does. You are 100% on the nose about the system issues... those are 100% ignored. So naw, black kid in the hood gets in a gang fight? That's suddenly not mental health, this is just those stupid little....

Also, everything can be fixed with therapy! Which then just segways into bitching about the price of therapy which then just segways into private healthcare bitching.

On the flipside, you have Instagram. Where every half naked chick eventually makes a post about depression/anxiety/trauma/eating disorder/something to the point it almost comes off fake as hell and used to get more dopamine hearts clicked (and increase how much some of them are paid). it is like really... all of you?

On one hand it is probaly good to talk about this stuff instead of hiding it away... but it seems it has gone way too far in the other direction. Maybe. I don't know.

Reddit is overrun by teenagers and twenty somethings who really don't have a good scope of themselves or the world around them.

As bad as Reddit is, Twitter's even worse. Twitter talks about therapy the same way born again Christians talk about the church.

"Men need to go to therapy so they can redefine their masculinity in a way that helps them thrive and stop being afraid."

"Men need to accept Christ into their hearts so they can be absolved from sinful ways and walk the true path of righteousness."

It's exactly the same. At least Church is free. They all sound like a bunch of patronizing, proselytizing, pious, pernicious pastors, who preach profusely, but fail to produce anything positive.

[Surf]

I really think I have to give this movie a watch. As much as I love fighting games, I've never been into Mortal Kombat, a little too gory for my liking.

It's... not great and one of the biggest decisions with the movie has nothing really to do with MK at all (looking at you Cole). I'm not so into MK for the gore either, I mean after MK4 I don't have much to add as far as arguing the lore and fortunately for this movie I feel that's all the backstory one might have to bring to this. Past the opening sequence which is pretty wild and goes for that, there is one fatality that I didn't quite see coming and it was on some 'Treehouse of Terror' type violence lol. That said I dug it well enough, if I'm just judging the handful of major HBO Max offerings since December- Judas and the Black Messiah and MK was and will be watched WAY more than KvG and WW84.

I started watching this series on HBO Max- Euphoria because I've heard some good stuff and that Zendaya played a very mature role for the first time in her career.

I must say this series is intense. A little too intense and far too graphic IMHO.

I mean, we all know how difficult growing up is for some young people but the extremes the series takes it to makes me wonder- why? I don't know why "trauma" and "mental illness"is being romanticized in media and is treated as part of a learning and growing process. It really isn't. I don't know when exactly it happened but I see a lot of fiction using stuff like these as "character quirks" and it kind of desensitizes people towards the issues because storylines are focusing on how "interesting" it makes these characters.

Zendaya is an unrepetant drug addict, another character is sexually assaulted in one episode, another one has a sex tape of her leaked and she goes into the "webcam business", another character brutally assaults a young man because he slept with his ex-girlfriend at a pool party e.t.c.

And I don't think I needed to see so much male frontal nudity...seriously, the series gave up so many close-up of male pee pee that I had to fast forward a lot of scenes.

All in all, I think it comes across as a little "edgelord" which was kind of disappointing because there are some really interesting plotlines in it.

Yea I don't like Zendaya that much, I think it's pretty clear this might not be the only role like this she flourishes in. I will have to give her and John David's movie a spin here shortly.

So you saying this is the new version of 'KIDS' from the 90's huh. That was some ill **** for the time and I agree, seeing these type of portrayals as largely entertainment misses the mark. Mental health support services in this country have purposely been on the decline for the last 30 years, similar song with substance abuse services. The media will have you believe the crack epidemic only occurred in a single community but in actuality, white folks in way more areas that you think got it off, and then went into the opioid **** fueled by the script writing physicians. None of **** is shaken off in the real world easily either if you're ever close to any parts of it. The brokenness effects of people dramatized in some of that **** can last for decades, if it doesn't kill you.

[Surf]

I was just going to pose the question, and so now that it has more or less sunk in, how did everybody think Isiah Bradley, The Falcon and The Winter Soldier came across on the representation scorecard?

I found it more than fair for a Disney production. For as many a Black moving pieces there were, not a ton mind you, but I don't think anyone can put it in a box as a 'Black show'. Which is good.

Malcolm Spellman on Lemar Hoskins's death.


https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-falcon-a...-to-1846772211

Um ... I don't see how they pushed back against the trope, at all. They just played right into it. They were doing just fine showing Walker as unstable and on edge leading up to killing Lemar, so I don't accept that this was the only way to give him a moment that would result in him killing someone. Giving him a loyal, wise, and patient black best friend who both humanizes him and also causes the pivotal turn in his character arc -- again, you're just completely playing into the trope of killing off the black guy as part of the white guy's story.


I'd add Zemo still being alive, too. Not that I was particularly fond of Karli's character -- I wasn't, I thought she was given a meandering storyline with vague motivations punctuated by random acts of terrorism, with no real reason given for the audience to sympathize with her anywhere near as much as the show seemed to want -- but I do think that making Battlestar and Karli just disposable while prepping these two for likely future appearances reflects a bias and lack of self-awareness on the part of the people who made the show. Killing people of color to mark your major dramatic moments is not cool, and no, the fact that the main character is black doesn't make it better. It's not like this show somehow exists outside of the context of the rest of western civilization.

I agree. Also we got three new white characters, a returning blond who is different now, Elaine from Seinfield and Walker, who are ALL willing to do 'whatever it takes' to get 'whatever they need'. Don't leave out Zemo's old ass butler even got some work in...

Also this article (with zero nuance and clearly not intended for me) misses a part about the 'Bucky' name that's been brought up here even, as if the Lamar character didn't have a white guy in Grenwald that wrote that out to begin with.

End of the day I'm not super broke up over Battlestar, I thought it was great the character was even used. Clé Bennett as Lemar played it pretty sincere but they missed a HUGE opportunity to have

spoilers:

Sam as Captain America have any dealings with another Black guy who is closer to the mantle than honestly anyone else. HUGE miss, I ain't saying they had to be partners but even to show up down the line supporting Sam Cap in any capacity. That bothers me most, there was no gain of heroes here, two roles became one which was going to happen anyway and a grander exit Lemar could have came down the line.

end of spoilers

Of course that would just **** up the rule of 1 as far as Black characters go. It's fine for Martin and Will to do it because they're in it for yucks but Lemar putting in some work as a backup or God forbid, together would have really been a forward move.

Also Spellman is great but he works for corporate, big corporate, the biggest and he is only going to be able to put forth but so much as far as speaking to any ideas of what Black people can and would say in ficiton. And C'mon, once we all saw that

spoilers:

US Agent was a going to be a thing, that was going to carry over and be felt with way more of the fan base than Battlestar ultimately would have been. Dude is Punisher-lite.

end of spoilers





Outside of that I thought Anthony Mackie carried this show in and out of the Falcon suit and that was a pleasant surprise. There's vibe to him, a happens to be Black vibe that certainly helps. I was at a comic show this weekend and those mid 80's 616 Cap books are wall books now so people like him and the role. Didn't play it too cool ever and if I had to pick out the corniest delivery of his dialogue, it would be the speech in the finale but even then he made it work with in the show context.


My favorite line of the whole series was the second time Sam visits Isaiah and he's carrying that leather bag with the shield and Bradly's like. "Is that what I think it is? Mm-hmm, don't take it out." LOL, YES! I must have rewound that half a dozen times. That was way more than an easter egg, that was an omelet.

The remaining Black folks were delegated to background scenery and montage filler and there should have more of that. I guess Sebastian Shaw is invited to the BBQ because he was literally shown to be at a BBQ more or less.

Not by and large any real progress, more of a lateral move and if your really about it, kind of another L in the bigger picture.

[MindofShadow]

there is one fatality that I didn't quite see coming and it was on some 'Treehouse of Terror' type violence lol.

spoilers:

Kung Lao or? I can't remember any I didn't see coming.

end of spoilers

[Surf]

spoilers:

Kung Lao or? I can't remember any I didn't see coming.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Yea Kung Lao gave it to the flying chick that got cut in half like a mounted woodworking shop table buzzsaw. When he showed up I expected somebody to catch the hat saw standing lol.

end of spoilers

[MindofShadow]

I was just going to pose the question, and so now that it has more or less sunk in, how did everybody think Isiah Bradley, The Falcon and The Winter Soldier came across on the representation scorecard?

I found it more than fair for a Disney production. For as many a Black moving pieces there were, not a ton mind you, but I don't think anyone can put it in a box as a 'Black show'. Which is good.

[/font]

I thought it did great but I seem to be in the minority here.

I want minorities in ALL roles and that includes the ability to kill them off if need be. I ain't losing a wink of sleep over Battlestar.

But here is how I see it...

- Main Character: black guy. Which included his all black family (biggest being his sister) and all black neighborhood/community.
- One Main Villain: black? mixed? chick. She sucked but whatever lol. Serious miscast here but whatever.
- Emotional Core of the Movie: old black dude
- Kick Ass Warrior Characters: buncha bald black women showed up and kicked everyones ass and left lol
- Second Villain? Sidekick: Lemar
- Second Villain? Wife: black chick... man, Walker likes black people lol?
- Main Characters background side kick: hispanic? latino? dude.

Yeha ol mixed? girl bit the dust but so did her whole crew lol. Ain't like they singled her out.

And something had to turn Walker... he needed to go bad but he couldn't go too bad because the character is really really grey... so he needed a somewhat justified reason if you squint to decapitate a terrorist who surrendered and Lemar was the only logical choice. I don't know **** about battlestar in the comics, so whatever. I guess they should have just casted a white sidekick instead and killed him to avoid the trope I guess? IS it worth losing a minority role to avoid tropes?