Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[CosmiComic]

They are, which means its deliberate.

That makes it worse

[Surf]

Patterns of this are easy to notice if you know where to look.


If you think Asian mothers are done badly-look up black fathers.

Vic's Dad is all anyone will ever bring up but shoutout to papa Rusch on the eve of Father's Day. Mans had it real tough.

Did they ever give Waller a backstory?

[Adam Allen]

Vic's Dad is all anyone will ever bring up but shoutout to papa Rusch on the eve of Father's Day. Mans had it real tough.

Did they ever give Waller a backstory?

Can't be bothered to look it up now, but pretty sure I recall some version of Waller who had kids .... don't know if that's comics, movie, or tv show, but do have some vague memory of that. Like, it was suggested that was why she was such a hardass for making sure she could keep the world a safer place -- because it's the world her kids have to live in.

I'm honestly not even sure if I like that idea, though. Like, not every woman has to become a mom, and Waller being just this driven and ironed-willed person because that's just who she is, kind of appeals to me. Especially if you consider it in comparison to the standard Batman-esque thing, where most superheroes need some kind of precipitating event, to make them become heroes. My impression of Waller comes largely from reading Suicide Squad back in the 90s, and I liked her for being what I thought was a pretty unique character.

Tangent because of Suicide Squad, I've been low-key irritated for a while, that Bronze Tiger was just erased out of the more recent versions of the Squad. I always liked the dynamic between him and Waller, and always thought he was a more interesting character than Rick Flag. Flag is about the most boring comics character I can think of, really.

[CosmiComic]

Can't be bothered to look it up now, but pretty sure I recall some version of Waller who had kids .... don't know if that's comics, movie, or tv show, but do have some vague memory of that. Like, it was suggested that was why she was such a hardass for making sure she could keep the world a safer place -- because it's the world her kids have to live in.

I'm honestly not even sure if I like that idea, though. Like, not every woman has to become a mom, and Waller being just this driven and ironed-willed person because that's just who she is, kind of appeals to me. Especially if you consider it in comparison to the standard Batman-esque thing, where most superheroes need some kind of precipitating event, to make them become heroes. My impression of Waller comes largely from reading Suicide Squad back in the 90s, and I liked her for being what I thought was a pretty unique character.

Tangent because of Suicide Squad, I've been low-key irritated for a while, that Bronze Tiger was just erased out of the more recent versions of the Squad. I always liked the dynamic between him and Waller, and always thought he was a more interesting character than Rick Flag. Flag is about the most boring comics character I can think of, really.

But if she's not "sensitive or vulnerable" people will complain about that.

[Adam Allen]

But if she's not "sensitive or vulnerable" people will complain about that.

That's just it, though ... I would appreciate it more I think if she was just consistently this ruthless and hardassed taskmaster keeping hardened criminals inline to do some good, who regularly shows she can get the job done by whatever means necessary without losing a wink of sleep over it ... and instead of showing she's human by doing something obvious and predictable by giving her kids, you instead create moments where she is vulnerable or sensitive in her morally grey and questionable job.

Like, you're obviously going to have your times when she needs to blow up the bomb in some Squad member's head, for whatever justifiable reason. Story-wise, it's to show she's not just talk -- you're following orders, or she will not hesitate. But Suicide Squad members are pretty often as sad or even pathetic as they are collectively dangerous. I feel like it would have more dramatic weight to have her ... I don't know, show her mourn for a Squad member who maybe was more young and misguided than really bad, who got killed on a mission, or after she had to detonate the bomb in the head of one she'd worked with well for some time but then stepped out of line -- like, let her be all hardassed in front of everybody else because she needs to, but show that it was hard for her as a human being, later on. Or even just let her show a random moment of kindness to like some monstrous and scary Squad member, who despite being a super-powered killer is on some level mentally more like a child.

I think I like any of those options more than just saying, well, she has kids, so we can all understand she's just being tough because she's an overprotective mom. I mean, that's definitely one way to go about it, just saying, I don't think it's necessarily the best one.

[Agent Z]

Patterns of this are easy to notice if you know where to look.


If you think Asian mothers are done badly-look up black fathers.

Let alone black families. John Stewart, Steel and Black Lightning had families before New 52. Storm, Prodigy & Synch had them too. We have not seen a lot of Panther's relatives.

Lightning's family is back as of Rebirth.

[Agent Z]

Can't be bothered to look it up now, but pretty sure I recall some version of Waller who had kids .... don't know if that's comics, movie, or tv show, but do have some vague memory of that. Like, it was suggested that was why she was such a hardass for making sure she could keep the world a safer place -- because it's the world her kids have to live in.

Amanda Waller has been established as a widow who escaped Chicago's Cabrini–Green housing projects with her surviving family after one of her sons, one of her daughters and her husband were murdered.[2] Waller excelled in political science and became a congressional aide. During that time, she discovered the existence of the first two incarnations of the Squad. Taking elements from both of these, she proposed the development of its third incarnation to the White House and was placed in charge upon its approval.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Waller#cite_note-2

This origin was established by John Ostrander, her creator.

But if she's not "sensitive or vulnerable" people will complain about that.

That's just it, though ... I would appreciate it more I think if she was just consistently this ruthless and hardassed taskmaster keeping hardened criminals inline to do some good, who regularly shows she can get the job done by whatever means necessary without losing a wink of sleep over it ... and instead of showing she's human by doing something obvious and predictable by giving her kids, you instead create moments where she is vulnerable or sensitive in her morally grey and questionable job.

Like, you're obviously going to have your times when she needs to blow up the bomb in some Squad member's head, for whatever justifiable reason. Story-wise, it's to show she's not just talk -- you're following orders, or she will not hesitate. But Suicide Squad members are pretty often as sad or even pathetic as they are collectively dangerous. I feel like it would have more dramatic weight to have her ... I don't know, show her mourn for a Squad member who maybe was more young and misguided than really bad, who got killed on a mission, or after she had to detonate the bomb in the head of one she'd worked with well for some time but then stepped out of line -- like, let her be all hardassed in front of everybody else because she needs to, but show that it was hard for her as a human being, later on. Or even just let her show a random moment of kindness to like some monstrous and scary Squad member, who despite being a super-powered killer is on some level mentally more like a child.

I think I like any of those options more than just saying, well, she has kids, so we can all understand she's just being tough because she's an overprotective mom. I mean, that's definitely one way to go about it, just saying, I don't think it's necessarily the best one.

Waller has been written as vulnerable or sensitive before as far back as the Ostrander Suicide Squad. Ostrander also created Waller and the origin I linked to above was penned by him. Ostrander is also considered the only writer who has ever gotten Waller right so him giving her kids isn't an issue. If anything, one of the biggest problems with Waller lately is making her less moral than she originally was written as.

Tangent because of Suicide Squad, I've been low-key irritated for a while, that Bronze Tiger was just erased out of the more recent versions of the Squad. I always liked the dynamic between him and Waller, and always thought he was a more interesting character than Rick Flag. Flag is about the most boring comics character I can think of, really.

I doubt there is any room for that kind of dynamic now given how the Squad has been written.

[Agent Z]

They are, which means its deliberate.

I don't think they are conscious of it. The thing about racism is that it doesn't have to be deliberate. I saw this in regards to the Altanta shooting (which that video I linked to also addressed). There were fairly progressive people who assumed the victims were sex workers despite no evidence of such.

DC probably doesn't necessarily have to be deliberately trying to present stereotypical depictions of Asian for their takes to be so offensive. One of the characters I mentioned in that list, Cheshire, has often been written as a dragon lady archetype by Gail Simone, one of the most progressive comic writers out there.

[Nate Grey]

I don't think they are conscious of it. The thing about racism is that it doesn't have to be deliberate. I saw this in regards to the Altanta shooting (which that video I linked to also addressed). There were fairly progressive people who assumed the victims were sex workers despite no evidence of such.

DC probably doesn't necessarily have to be deliberately trying to present stereotypical depictions of Asian for their takes to be so offensive. One of the characters I mentioned in that list, Cheshire, has often been written as a dragon lady archetype by Gail Simone, one of the most progressive comic writers out there.

I meant what I said, and I'm talking about in this regard only. The people with the power to enforce these stereotypes, or not, have been told by someone, usually someone of color, what they're doing. They typically double down, use shields ("well my best friend/wife/etc is [insert ethnicity they're stereotyping] so its okay" or try and flip it back around ("YOU'RE the racist/reverse racist!"). Its too late in the game, and the internet is too prevalent, to hide behind "I didn't know" anymore. They do. You don't think otherwise so be it but MY experience, again in this regard, tells me otherwise.

[Agent Z]

I meant what I said, and I'm talking about in this regard only. The people with the power to enforce these stereotypes, or not, have been told by someone, usually someone of color, what they're doing. They typically double down, use shields ("well my best friend/wife/etc is [insert ethnicity they're stereotyping] so its okay" or try and flip it back around ("YOU'RE the racist/reverse racist!"). Its too late in the game, and the internet is too prevalent, to hide behind "I didn't know" anymore. They do. You don't think otherwise so be it but MY experience, again in this regard, tells me otherwise.

Very well then. I meant no offense and I apologize. I did not mean to discredit your experiences.

[MindofShadow]

I meant what I said, and I'm talking about in this regard only. The people with the power to enforce these stereotypes, or not, have been told by someone, usually someone of color, what they're doing. They typically double down, use shields ("well my best friend/wife/etc is [insert ethnicity they're stereotyping] so its okay" or try and flip it back around ("YOU'RE the racist/reverse racist!"). Its too late in the game, and the internet is too prevalent, to hide behind "I didn't know" anymore. They do. You don't think otherwise so be it but MY experience, again in this regard, tells me otherwise.

Just like when Coates told the Marvel dudes at the Marvel retreat that killing Rhodey off in CWII was in bad taste.

And they shrugged and did it anyway.

[Besouro]

Patterns of this are easy to notice if you know where to look.


If you think Asian mothers are done badly-look up black fathers.

Let alone black families. John Stewart, Steel and Black Lightning had families before New 52. Storm, Prodigy & Synch had them too. We have not seen a lot of Panther's relatives.

Steel and Black Lightning families have had some serious prominence for a long time .....at least with their children/ daughters who are all individual Superheroes.

BP has had prominent VERY PROMINENT family showings from his mother the Queen Mother to his step brother Hunter to his uncle Syan to his sister Shuri along side the many times BPs relatives have been showcased ....so saying "We have not seen a lot of Panther's relatives." is straight up false.

U definitely have a point on all the other characters u mentioned which a X-Men characters whom the x-writers and editors for some reason HATE their X characters from having a family (at least anyone who isn't Logan or Cyclops or Emma, etc). Hudlin used BP to find Storm's paternal family and united her with them but the X-writers and editors refused to accept it and have ignored it completely.

[ed2962]

I meant what I said, and I'm talking about in this regard only. The people with the power to enforce these stereotypes, or not, have been told by someone, usually someone of color, what they're doing. They typically double down, use shields ("well my best friend/wife/etc is [insert ethnicity they're stereotyping] so its okay" or try and flip it back around ("YOU'RE the racist/reverse racist!"). Its too late in the game, and the internet is too prevalent, to hide behind "I didn't know" anymore. They do. You don't think otherwise so be it but MY experience, again in this regard, tells me otherwise.

The thing with that is, sometimes you can get through to someone and sometimes not. The first thing I thought of was Battlestar's naming. He was going to be Buck until a black person told Mark Gruewald of the racial implications. Mark changed the name. Conversely, New 52 Starfire walks up to Arsenal and says, "Would you like to have sex with me?" Several women in DC offices told Scott Lobdell that a woman who wanted sex wouldn't proposition a man that way. Scott's reply was to say something like, "But she's an alien!"

[godisawesome]

Any thoughts about how Weismann and co. handle Cheshire on Young Justice? Seasons 1 & 2 make most of the Nguyen-Crock family minus Sportsmaster seem shockingly functional overall, and Jade herself seems to be the more reasonable spouse and parent in those season.

...Then Season 3 happens and she pulls the old “too dangerous for my kid” thing and runs a away.

YJ Cheshire is still miles away from comic Cheshire, but is she far enough to avoid some of the characters original racist caricatures?

[CosmiComic]

That's just it, though ... I would appreciate it more I think if she was just consistently this ruthless and hardassed taskmaster keeping hardened criminals inline to do some good, who regularly shows she can get the job done by whatever means necessary without losing a wink of sleep over it ... and instead of showing she's human by doing something obvious and predictable by giving her kids, you instead create moments where she is vulnerable or sensitive in her morally grey and questionable job.

Like, you're obviously going to have your times when she needs to blow up the bomb in some Squad member's head, for whatever justifiable reason. Story-wise, it's to show she's not just talk -- you're following orders, or she will not hesitate. But Suicide Squad members are pretty often as sad or even pathetic as they are collectively dangerous. I feel like it would have more dramatic weight to have her ... I don't know, show her mourn for a Squad member who maybe was more young and misguided than really bad, who got killed on a mission, or after she had to detonate the bomb in the head of one she'd worked with well for some time but then stepped out of line -- like, let her be all hardassed in front of everybody else because she needs to, but show that it was hard for her as a human being, later on. Or even just let her show a random moment of kindness to like some monstrous and scary Squad member, who despite being a super-powered killer is on some level mentally more like a child.

I think I like any of those options more than just saying, well, she has kids, so we can all understand she's just being tough because she's an overprotective mom. I mean, that's definitely one way to go about it, just saying, I don't think it's necessarily the best one.

Yeah, I was just making a jab at all the people who complain about female characters being stoic or reserved. I see that all the time online.