Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[CosmiComic]

Yeah sure, but Fox had the rights to Kang. He was in the F4 package.

Really? Why?

One cannot deny that the FF does have an element of cheesiness, maybe the best way to make the FF work is to embrace the cheese instead of running away from it. I mean the Incredibles is the best FF movie and the whole thing is Brad Bird's love letter to 60's silver age comics. The MCU is rife with cheese, I think they'll be fine.

I think the F4 corniness is annoying though. There's good corny and bad corny.

[MindofShadow]

Really? Why?

Rama-Tut first appeared in F4 comic in 1963.

And, Kang is a Richard.

I'm assuming that is why.

[Frontier]

Kang is more of an Avengers villain though. He's fought the Avengers and is connected to the Young Avengers

Honestly, I don't even think Thing is interesting. He's just a discount Hulk despite coming first. Sue has the most interesting power set but she's boring. Idk what her character even is. I think it's because, as Surf pointed out, it's not really as much of a team comic so much as Reed & his buddies. And Reed isn't that great of a person from what I've read, yet still has his whole family supporting him despite that. And the membership doesn't change much so there's little chance of any diversity. Honestly, I think part of the reason they've stuck around so long despite not being as popular as other teams is because they're White

I've read quite a few FF runs that shows the team's personalities and powersets off quite well, but that might be a matter of taste. It's never read as Reed & buddies to me so much as a story about one family, but again...tastes differ. I don't mind the roster not changing much because that's just the kind of team it is, so they have their own individual identity as a group.

Ben Grimm has so much integrity and character that I feel it's a disservice to view him as discount Hulk. And not just because he always loses to Hulk in their fights, but he never gives up.

I don't think they're being white has anything to do with it so much as just being a founding comic that introduced a lot of popular concepts and elements (like Black Panther!) and pioneered a lot of revolutionary concepts at the time like a team that was a family, bickered and conflicted, and dealt with existential threats.

[CosmiComic]

Rama-Tut first appeared in F4 comic in 1963.

And, Kang is a Richard.

I'm assuming that is why.

I guess so. I always thought the Rama-Tut/Kang connection was a retcon.

I've read quite a few FF runs that shows the team's personalities and powersets off quite well, but that might be a matter of taste. It's never read as Reed & buddies to me so much as a story about one family, but again...tastes differ. I don't mind the roster not changing much because that's just the kind of team it is, so they have their own individual identity as a group.

Ben Grimm has so much integrity and character that I feel it's a disservice to view him as discount Hulk. And not just because he always loses to Hulk in their fights, but he never gives up.

I don't think they're being white has anything to do with it so much as just being a founding comic that introduced a lot of popular concepts and elements (like Black Panther!) and pioneered a lot of revolutionary concepts at the time like a team that was a family, bickered and conflicted, and dealt with existential threats.

Ok. I always felt Reed overshadowed the others.

Maybe calling Ben a discount Hulk isn't fair, but his powers aren't that interesting, and while his character is ok, I don't he's as interesting as a lot of Avengers or X-Men.

I realized F4 introduced a lot of concepts, but those concepts became their own things and don't need F4 anymore. Black Panther, for instance, is his own comic now, but he's unique too, especially compared to other heroes from that era, yet didn't get near the consistent push a team like F4 did. So while they're historically influential, they're not so much now, yet they still stuck around, but would a mostly female or PoC team get that same kind of support despite not being as relevant anymore? I think not. For me, that's why the unchanging roster is a problem, because a mostly male, all White team from the 60s doesn't help diversity much. And personally, I never liked their team dynamics, so that's not really worth refusing to change or update the team, at least for me. Others may feel differently

[Surf]

Maybe just do a Thing solo. He's the most interesting char out of all of them and the only one to carry a solo book. They can just draw from that series. Let Vin Diesel do it.

I feel Ben Grimm was in the spot where Deadpool now hold in the consciousness, that one brass character who always has something quippy to say. For The Thing to be popularized again he's prolly gonna need militarized redesign unfortunatley.

One cannot deny that the FF does have an element of cheesiness, maybe the best way to make the FF work is to embrace the cheese instead of running away from it. I mean the Incredibles is the best FF movie and the whole thing is Brad Bird's love letter to 60's silver age comics. The MCU is rife with cheese, I think they'll be fine.

I bet if you ask Tim Story that brotha be like, 'dawg, I thought that that's what I was doin!' All anybody every could bring up is Galacta-cloud. I have no idea how much more 'spirit of the FF' can be brought on film than what he did. Even if it was FOX FF.

Here's my Big Barda: Janee Kassanavoid Comanche Tribe
Big and Beautiful Girl

[Username taken]

I've read quite a few FF runs that shows the team's personalities and powersets off quite well, but that might be a matter of taste. It's never read as Reed & buddies to me so much as a story about one family, but again...tastes differ. I don't mind the roster not changing much because that's just the kind of team it is, so they have their own individual identity as a group.

Ben Grimm has so much integrity and character that I feel it's a disservice to view him as discount Hulk. And not just because he always loses to Hulk in their fights, but he never gives up.

I don't think they're being white has anything to do with it so much as just being a founding comic that introduced a lot of popular concepts and elements (like Black Panther!) and pioneered a lot of revolutionary concepts at the time like a team that was a family, bickered and conflicted, and dealt with existential threats.

I think in recent years (particularly Hickman's run) FF stories have been somewhat Reed-centric. Hickman's entire run started off with a Reed flashback.

A lot of FF stories weren't necessarily Reed-centric but they almost always ended with Reed figuring out what to do and more or less saving the day (not necessarily directly but through some other member of the team or some gadget).

Ben Grimm was a LOT more prominent in the FF books and in Marvel as a whole back in the 70s and 80s. He was actually one of their most popular characters then and he even had a solo book. Marvel really denigrated the FF and most of their non-mutant, non Spider-man characters when the 90s hit and it became "all X-men, all the time". Even to the point that Wolverine scarred Grimm's face for a good long while then, that's how low his profile had dropped.

[CosmiComic]

It's ironic the X-Men later got hit with the same thing.

[CliffHanger2]

I feel Ben Grimm was in the spot where Deadpool now hold in the consciousness, that one brass character who always has something quippy to say. For The Thing to be popularized again he's prolly gonna need militarized redesign unfortunatley.



I bet if you ask Tim Story that brotha be like, 'dawg, I thought that that's what I was doin!' All anybody every could bring up is Galacta-cloud. I have no idea how much more 'spirit of the FF' can be brought on film than what he did. Even if it was FOX FF.

Honestly I don't think he needs a design update just great special effects and action. I think his arc could go from being stuck as the thing and gaining the ability to go back and forth. With a little art house thrown in like that slice of life issue from Barry Windsor Smith. But I do agree Tim Story really did capture the dynamic of F.F that was them.

[CosmiComic]

Honestly I don't think he needs a design update just great special effects and action. I think his arc could go from being stuck as the thing and gaining the ability to go back and forth. With a little art house thrown in like that slice of life issue from Barry Windsor Smith. But I do agree Tim Story really did capture the dynamic of F.F that was them.

I actually think Story did capture the basic dynamic. It's just that the dynamic isn't that great, at least for a lot of people, myself included

[CliffHanger2]

I actually think Story did capture the basic dynamic. It's just that the dynamic isn't that great, at least for a lot of people, myself included

I think the Incredibles stole F.Fs thunder even tho they're a rip off F.F. But they've shown an updated version could work. Reed and Johnny don't need to be dikheds.

[Ragged Maw]

They'll probably make a Future Foundation film as a spiritual F4 outing. The main story will focus on the youngsters with disparate multicultural backgrounds but have the "four founders" as a strong overarching presence. Like what Tony Stark was to Peter Parker in Homecoming.

[CosmiComic]

I think the Incredibles stole F.Fs thunder even tho they're a rip off F.F. But they've shown an updated version could work. Reed and Johnny don't need to be dikheds.

Then what would their characters be like?/s

Plus, Sue needs an actual personality.

They'll probably make a Future Foundation film as a spiritual F4 outing. The main story will focus on the youngsters with disparate multicultural backgrounds but have the "four founders" as a strong overarching presence. Like what Tony Stark was to Peter Parker in Homecoming.

I think that would actually be better than the F4 themselves in the MCU. That and maybe the Maker

[Ragged Maw]

Then what would their characters be like?/s

Plus, Sue needs an actual personality.

I think that would actually be better than the F4 themselves in the MCU. That and maybe the Maker

No. They'll be in the MCU. But more as the mentor figures who now focus more on research and education than they once did on fighting bad guys (see: MCU Hank Pym).

Like, our central viewpoint characters occasionally call them at the Baxter Building and ask them for pointers or to borrow certain bits of insane tech housed in the vaults or whatnot.

[CosmiComic]

No. They'll be in the MCU. But more as the mentor figures who now focus more on research and education than they once did on fighting bad guys (see: MCU Hank Pym).

Like, our central viewpoint characters occasionally call them at the Baxter Building and ask them for pointers or to borrow certain bits of insane tech housed in the vaults or whatnot.

I think that could work. Making them side characters to support newer heroes who actually advance society has potential in the MCU

Although I wouldn't mind a young hero who focuses on science and education as well

[ed2962]

What is, in your opinion, the FF concept exactly?

A small group of adventurers who just happen to be related. They discover strange new lands and weird sci-fi concepts.