Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[ed2962]

I don't think it's the movie's argument itself, but that the MCU cooperates with the military in real life. I don't think it's something someone just invented.

And as such, these movie companies aren't going to criticize the military too much. They want the cooperation of the military and the military wants to use these movies as propaganda or at least ads for recruitment. It's been going on for decades and it's not just Marvel.

[CosmiComic]

And as such, these movie companies aren't going to criticize the military too much. They want the cooperation of the military and the military wants to use these movies as propaganda or at least ads for recruitment. It's been going on for decades and it's not just Marvel.

That's true, but you can see why people would criticize that.

[Agent Z]

Complaints about the MCU being military propaganda aren't new but they ironically seemed to have increased after the MCU became more critical of American foreign and domestic policies. Meanwhile, Captain America: The First Avenger which is easily the most propagandist of the MCU films, has pretty much escaped this criticism.

[Tofali]

Considering its Box Office numbers domestically and internationally compared to Thor and Iron Man I don't think it escaped audiences' reaction to it.

[MindofShadow]

Complaints about the MCU being military propaganda aren't new but they ironically seemed to have increased after the MCU became more critical of American foreign and domestic policies. Meanwhile, Captain America: The First Avenger which is easily the most propagandist of the MCU films, has pretty much escaped this criticism.

Eh, Nazi being bad and everyone stomp the Nazis is the easiest, most agreed upon position in the world until like 4 years ago lol. Propaganda is fine if its smashing nazis.

But... Avengers 1 wasn't allowed to use US military because they were shown in a bad light (nuking NYC). Hence why those weren't american jets and such. But a shady "shadow council" type thing.

To use American Military stuff, the American Military has to come off looking good. Which... makes sense lol. All companies follow that logic to use their stuff.

Don't worry about it The poster is confusing you with MindofShadow who used to make fun of Falcon until the MCU actually gave the character agency other than following the leader.

Oh goddamit! I got him and Mik confused! Sorry Mik. But yeah, I was audience to that claim more than once.

Hey, comic Falcon sucked until Mackie made him cool, you know I'm right lol. After MCU falcon came along, suddenly comic falcon wasn't so terrible... they updated him a touch.

[CosmiComic]

Eh, Nazi being bad and everyone stomp the Nazis is the easiest, most agreed upon position in the world until like 4 years ago lol. Propaganda is fine if its smashing nazis.

But... Avengers 1 wasn't allowed to use US military because they were shown in a bad light (nuking NYC). Hence why those weren't american jets and such. But a shady "shadow council" type thing.

To use American Military stuff, the American Military has to come off looking good. Which... makes sense lol. All companies follow that logic to use their stuff.

So basically, the USA military is fragile and can't take criticism, right?

Hey, comic Falcon sucked until Mackie made him cool, you know I'm right lol. After MCU falcon came along, suddenly comic falcon wasn't so terrible... they updated him a touch.

I never hated him, but he was always meh. at least in his solo as Captain America, he actually had his own opinions about being a superhero.

Although I always found it odd that a guy with a completely different power set from Steve succeeded him.

[MindofShadow]

So basically, the USA military is fragile and can't take criticism, right?

Apple won't let movies use their products if the bad guy is using an apple product.

This isn't a new thing at all. A lot of companies won't let you use their stuff if it puts their product in a bad light.

It is a business decision.

"Fragile" is another bad buzzword that doesn't mean anything.

[ed2962]

That's true, but you can see why people would criticize that.

Sure. People in real life can criticize that. I don't know that we should except the fictional characters that the company owns to go against the company's best interests.

It's one thing to publish a story or movie where Capt America condemns the general idea of racism, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for a story where Capt America calls out Marvel/Disney's history of racism or modern day complacency in racism.

(Although can I think of one exception....)

[ed2962]

Complaints about the MCU being military propaganda aren't new but they ironically seemed to have increased after the MCU became more critical of American foreign and domestic policies. Meanwhile, Captain America: The First Avenger which is easily the most propagandist of the MCU films, has pretty much escaped this criticism.

It worth noting that those Silver Age Marvel comics are full of pro-military and Cold War propaganda. That's simply where Stan's politics were at the time.

[PwrdOn]

As the saying goes, there's no such thing as an anti-war film, because cinematic depictions of combat will always end up glorifying it regardless of the director's intent. So in this sense the Pentagon is being unnecessarily petty, because even if the US military is depicted in a negative light, any competently executed action movie will drive adventure-seeking young people to enlist, and therefore can serve as effective war propaganda whether or not it wants to. Indeed, taking an overly jingoistic tone might actually be counterproductive since it can break immersion and turn off audiences while a more nuanced approach would be able to induce the desired response without people realizing it.

[godisawesome]

Eh, Nazi being bad and everyone stomp the Nazis is the easiest, most agreed upon position in the world until like 4 years ago lol. Propaganda is fine if its smashing nazis.

(Insert bitter comment about The Last Jedi, in spite of trying to be progressive, also disagreeing with the premise if the Nazi has long, pretty hair, makes a good sad face, has the right parents, and the alternative is keeping a charismatic, highly sympathetic black dude in the male lead role close to the main female hero.)

[ed2962]

As the saying goes, there's no such thing as an anti-war film, because cinematic depictions of combat will always end up glorifying it regardless of the director's intent. So in this sense the Pentagon is being unnecessarily petty, because even if the US military is depicted in a negative light, any competently executed action movie will drive adventure-seeking young people to enlist, and therefore can serve as effective war propaganda whether or not it wants to. Indeed, taking an overly jingoistic tone might actually be counterproductive since it can break immersion and turn off audiences while a more nuanced approach would be able to induce the desired response without people realizing it.

I've heard that before, but I don't necessarily agree. Yes, if you shoot cool looking battle scenes it might undercut your anti-war message. But the solution is to not have your movie centered around cool looking battle scenes. A good example of an anti-war movie that makes war look cool might be Apocalyse Now however a counter example might be Casualties of War. It's been a long time since I've seen CoW, but I barely even remember battle scenes from that movie. I do remember Shaun Penn's performance as a man consumed by hate and anger and a haunting scene where he shoots and unarmed woman ( who he and his men have just raped). I don't think young guys would watch that film and think enlisting would be a great way to live a life of adventure.

[PwrdOn]

I've heard that before, but I don't necessarily agree. Yes, if you shoot cool looking battle scenes it might undercut your anti-war message. But the solution is to not have your movie centered around cool looking battle scenes. A good example of an anti-war movie that makes war look cool might be Apocalyse Now however a counter example might be Casualties of War. It's been a long time since I've seen CoW, but I barely even remember battle scenes from that movie. I do remember Shaun Penn's performance as a man consumed by hate and anger and a haunting scene where he shoots and unarmed woman ( who he and his men have just raped). I don't think young guys would watch that film and think enlisting would be a great way to live a life of adventure.

Maybe it's not impossible to make an anti-war film, but the elements that make the anti-war message effective are also the same things that make them unappealing to most audiences. Admittedly I've never heard of Casualties of War, but I don't think that's a coincidence either given how it depicts the subject matter compared to more famous Vietnam films like Apocalypse Now or Full Metal Jacket. And certainly for an MCU film, eschewing big action set pieces in favor of depicting the horrors of war isn't really an option.

There is also the related but distinct assertion that Hollywood films are specifically pro-American propaganda, and again I think that regardless of the filmmaker's intent this comes through again because of audience bias. For example, Star Wars was very much attempting a Vietnam allegory with the Rebels and Ewoks standing in for the plucky Vietcong guerillas and the overwhelming technological might of the Empire representing the American forces. However, most viewers didn't pick up on this at all, and some even outright deny the connection, believing that the Imperials' Nazi aesthetic naturally meant that the Rebels were supposed to represent America, tortured as that analogy might be. The MCU is much the same way, sure the US military and government usually comes off as murderous pricks in those films, but the message that carries over to viewers is overwhelmingly that the likes of Thunderbolt Ross and US Agent don't REALLY represent America, and are instead are just symbols of how the military has become corrupted and lost its way over time, and that people like Steve Rogers are the ones carrying on the TRUE spirit of America, which is still intrinsically good and heroic.

[Tofali]

Hey, comic Falcon sucked until Mackie made him cool, you know I'm right lol. After MCU falcon came along, suddenly comic falcon wasn't so terrible... they updated him a touch.

Oh I agree with you wholeheartedly lol

[Surf]

It worth noting that those Silver Age Marvel comics are full of pro-military and Cold War propaganda. That's simply where Stan's politics were at the time.

Right. That's literally where ALL American and much of world Politics were at the time. Hence the designation of WWII.

I can't believe this has carried 2 pages, an army soldier of the time that became a super soldier superhero. And still served in the military until more or less, still. In the comics anyway.

John Lewis's posthumously release graphic novel 'RUN' came out today. I'll find a way to part with the twenty bucks. I was also today years old when in covering this release on CBS news this morning I found out the old logo for the Democratic party was and how that the Black Panther logo has ties emanating from that logo. Crazy, wasn't even dumped until 1966.