Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[CosmiComic]

Apple won't let movies use their products if the bad guy is using an apple product.

This isn't a new thing at all. A lot of companies won't let you use their stuff if it puts their product in a bad light.

It is a business decision.

"Fragile" is another bad buzzword that doesn't mean anything.

Why's it a buzzword? I think it applies pretty well to people who are too afraid of introspection, especially those from the majority. What word would you use?

Sure. People in real life can criticize that. I don't know that we should except the fictional characters that the company owns to go against the company's best interests.

It's one thing to publish a story or movie where Capt America condemns the general idea of racism, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for a story where Capt America calls out Marvel/Disney's history of racism or modern day complacency in racism.

(Although can I think of one exception....)

Idk if it's in the company's best interest. But never saying anything because it threatens your bottom line isn't great either. I guess it depends on the specific situation.

I'm not sure what exception you're referring to

[Besouro]

Now I'm really worried about what that Silverhawks reboot will cause.

As long as the black Silverhawks character is a mainstay of the core cast this time and they change his name from Hotwing to Goldwing.

[Besouro]

Off the dome it was a toy-line created by a Black women who like a ton of Black parents in the 80s, didn't see the representation there should have been. They were hard to find but there was a retailer called Zayre here in Indianapolis, pretty much a Wal-Mart predecessor that carried them. Don't remember ever seeing them at Children's Palace back in the day but Zayre definitely carried the line. Unfortunately with no cartoon to push it, this was early mid 1980s it was going to be tough to market it. I don't remember ever seeing the line at Target. I'm gonna have to Google if she still owns the IP but one would think as much as the figures go for on the collector market some deal could get made for a push on some level.

Nice.

What is the backstory for Sun-man's character and his universe of characters?

[Besouro]

Exactly this.

I am NOT watching Black Panther 2 without T'Challa. Depriving young African-American men of one of the most prominent, positive African male characters in fiction is criminal. Just like the ScarJo thing going on right now, Disney has been blinded by the dough and they apparently don't care who or what they step on to get that payola. That's why when the anti-SJW people hold up Disney as some sort of "social justice preaching company" I genuinely get confused. Disney/Marvel had the choice to simply wait and re-cast T'Challa, period. They decided to go in a different direction because of the dollar signs.

Conservative or liberal, people just shut down discussions under the guise of "politics". It's gotten tiring because people are simply using minority and minority led media as ammunition for the culture war...regardless of how a lot of said minorities actually feel. As you rightly mentioned, songs like WAP and Montero have been used by liberals in their war against conservatives, despite the fact that these songs were basically made just to generate controversy and sell records in the process. A number of black-run youtube channels were actually quite critical of both songs but since they've been adopted as "liberal anthems" they've all basically been shut up.

Right now, Michael Che is under serious fire for "daring" to joke about Simone Biles...the "GOAT". I don't remember her being called the GOAT after her past performances, it was after she pulled out of certain events in these Olympics due to "mental health" that certain folks rallied around her and gave her that title. Basically, it's now just shut up and watch because if you do speak, you will get attacked.

Honestly I don't understand why some folks are piling hate at Biles for withdrawing to perform "due to her mental health"..... She has already earned many medals and a defending champion so it's not as if she can't perform but as a champion especially one who has won very many medals, you will know when your mind isn't right in the game and gymnastics isn't a sport where you go in half-cocked because it could lead to a mis-step that leads to permanent injury.

Gymnastics is not tennis or swimming or sprinting or long jump or javelin or short put or whatever.... bones will break from the wrong twist or miscalculated landing if you are not focused or if your mind ain't straight.

Biles has already proven that black women can succeed in a sport historical dominated and exclusive to non-blacks... Because they previously said black women do not have the right body stature for the sport.

Biles performed moves that had never been successfully done in gymnastic competition history.

She has accomplished all this already but folks are accusing her for choking and/or scared yet she has nothing more to prove to anybody... Even if she decides to just quit gymnastics all together and move on with her life, I will be all for it. She EARNED it!

No real coach will want to force their star athlete to perform when his/her mind and body isn't properly ready.... That's how you get your athletes hurt and in some cases permanently then the same folks accusing Bikes of "choking" will also pile on her if she had performed badly or got hurt in the process.

I really don't see how and why it became a mudslinging match btwn the left n right. It's as if she is the athlete to ever pull out of a competition for stress, mental and or personal issues.

[Besouro]

I've heard that before, but I don't necessarily agree. Yes, if you shoot cool looking battle scenes it might undercut your anti-war message. But the solution is to not have your movie centered around cool looking battle scenes. A good example of an anti-war movie that makes war look cool might be Apocalyse Now however a counter example might be Casualties of War. It's been a long time since I've seen CoW, but I barely even remember battle scenes from that movie. I do remember Shaun Penn's performance as a man consumed by hate and anger and a haunting scene where he shoots and unarmed woman ( who he and his men have just raped). I don't think young guys would watch that film and think enlisting would be a great way to live a life of adventure.

There have been many movies that show the bad side of war from....

... random Innocents being killed/bombed due to bad Intel or poor aim.

....Soldiers dying in horrible ways and/or permanently mutilated or deformed by a landmine or bomb or nasty boobytraps

.....mental issues that result like alcoholism and PTSD

Are we just pretending that we have never seen any of this is war movies and tv series dating back to the Vietnam movies of back then? Really?

What most of these war movies sell is the heroism and cammaraderie of the soldiers but they still show the nastiness, pain and brutality of war from Black Hawk down, Saving Private Ryan, Thin Red Line, etc.

Of course there are also those One Man Army Rambo/Commando type action movies but those are not about the military just about one guy being a godly badass in anything he does no matter how insane doesn't matter if he is shooting guns or doing martial arts or driving cars (Fast n Furious).

[Besouro]

Right. That's literally where ALL American and much of world Politics were at the time. Hence the designation of WWII.

I can't believe this has carried 2 pages, an army soldier of the time that became a super soldier superhero. And still served in the military until more or less, still. In the comics anyway.

John Lewis's posthumously release graphic novel 'RUN' came out today. I'll find a way to part with the twenty bucks. I was also today years old when in covering this release on CBS news this morning I found out the old logo for the Democratic party was and how that the Black Panther logo has ties emanating from that logo. Crazy, wasn't even dumped until 1966.

Yiiiikes!!!!!

How was the Black Panther Party involved or have ties with that logo?

[Hypestyle]

Yiiiikes!!!!!

How was the Black Panther Party involved or have ties with that logo?

clarification--
they did not create the chicken logo. here's the deeper story:

http://dailyregiment.blogspot.com/20...-of-black.html


excerpt:

In recent months, a couple people have told me that, "The Black Panthers started in L.os A.ngeles." Many Oakland-natives would know the above statement to be untrue, considering the role the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense played in the city. The Black Panther iconography holds a special place in Oakland history. For example, in 2007, upon restarting the Laney College Black Student Union (Laney BSU), the community college students incorporated the Black Panther into its organizational logo. However, many people do not know that the origins of the Black Panther and Party lay in Alabama. Student-led efforts for political empowerment of in Jim Crow Alabama led to the adoption and dissemination of the Black Panther as a revolutionary icon that would come to symbolize Black Power against white oppression. After emerging in Alabama in 1965-1966, the Black Panther came west to Los Angeles and Oakland. After the formation of the Black Panther Party in Oakland, the Black Panther later became an internationally recognized icon of “Black Power” and revolution.

The Alabama Origins of Black Power and the Black Panther

In 1965, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC), led by then activist Stokely Carmichael (Kwame Toure)–who later became SNCC’s chair–organized a voter registration project in Lowndes County, Alabama. Although 80 percent of County residents were Black, the white power structure kept all from voting. The LFCO adopted the Black Panther as the organization’s logo. The organization was also known as “The Black Panther Party.”[1] The LFCO registered voters, organized health clinics, and also ran candidates for county offices. Explaining the logo in 1966, the LFCO wrote:
“Their symbol is the “Black Panther” which stands for courage, determination, and freedom. It was chosen as an appropriate response to the racist Alabama Democratic Party symbol, the white rooster and its slogan, “White Supremacy/For the Right.”[2]
The Black Panther rose as a fierce defender of Black Alabamans. Faced with the white dominated political economy–white sheriffs, coroners, education boards, and landowners–the LFCO fought for political rights. Despite evictions and terrorist intimidation, the LFCO ran candidates and brought candidates out to vote.[3]. Out of this struggle also led Willie Ricks (Baba Mukasa) to coin the phrase “Black Power.”[4] The symbolism of Black Power, embodied in the Black Panther, led to two different efforts in Northern and Southern California: Freedom City and the Black Panther Party.

[ed2962]

Maybe it's not impossible to make an anti-war film, but the elements that make the anti-war message effective are also the same things that make them unappealing to most audiences. Admittedly I've never heard of Casualties of War, but I don't think that's a coincidence either given how it depicts the subject matter compared to more famous Vietnam films like Apocalypse Now or Full Metal Jacket. And certainly for an MCU film, eschewing big action set pieces in favor of depicting the horrors of war isn't really an option.

There is also the related but distinct assertion that Hollywood films are specifically pro-American propaganda, and again I think that regardless of the filmmaker's intent this comes through again because of audience bias. For example, Star Wars was very much attempting a Vietnam allegory with the Rebels and Ewoks standing in for the plucky Vietcong guerillas and the overwhelming technological might of the Empire representing the American forces. However, most viewers didn't pick up on this at all, and some even outright deny the connection, believing that the Imperials' Nazi aesthetic naturally meant that the Rebels were supposed to represent America, tortured as that analogy might be. The MCU is much the same way, sure the US military and government usually comes off as murderous pricks in those films, but the message that carries over to viewers is overwhelmingly that the likes of Thunderbolt Ross and US Agent don't REALLY represent America, and are instead are just symbols of how the military has become corrupted and lost its way over time, and that people like Steve Rogers are the ones carrying on the TRUE spirit of America, which is still intrinsically good and heroic.

Oh yeah, it under performed. And that's despite starring Michael J Fox and Shaun Penn at the height of their popularity and being directed by Brian DePalma who had directed Scarface, Body Double, and The Untouchables. It got good reviews, but it was a depressing movie based loosely on a real life incident.

[ed2962]

Idk if it's in the company's best interest. But never saying anything because it threatens your bottom line isn't great either. I guess it depends on the specific situation.

I'm not sure what exception you're referring to

This requires some context...

Around the time of the first Capt America movie, Marvel published a ton of Cap related comics. One was Young Allies, this was a call back to a comic they published back in the 40's. The premise was Bucky, Toro and their teenaged pals fight the Nazis. One of the pals is a black character called "Whitewash Jones" who was a fairly typically stereotype of the time. Now, in the 616 Universe there is a Marvel Comics Company that publishes comics loosely based "real life" superheroes. The new story done a few years ago pretty much acknowledges the racism of those 40's comics.

Here's Whitewash as he appeared in the 40's....

[ed2962]

Here's the "real" Washington Jones from the recent retelling calling out the stereotyping...



So it's kind of an exception. More often than not Marvel/DC would rather people just forget they published stuff like this. They usually don't have the fictional characters call out the publishing company.

[ed2962]

There have been many movies that show the bad side of war from....

... random Innocents being killed/bombed due to bad Intel or poor aim.

....Soldiers dying in horrible ways and/or permanently mutilated or deformed by a landmine or bomb or nasty boobytraps

.....mental issues that result like alcoholism and PTSD

Are we just pretending that we have never seen any of this is war movies and tv series dating back to the Vietnam movies of back then? Really?

What most of these war movies sell is the heroism and cammaraderie of the soldiers but they still show the nastiness, pain and brutality of war from Black Hawk down, Saving Private Ryan, Thin Red Line, etc.

Of course there are also those One Man Army Rambo/Commando type action movies but those are not about the military just about one guy being a godly badass in anything he does no matter how insane doesn't matter if he is shooting guns or doing martial arts or driving cars (Fast n Furious).

No one was saying that there haven't been movies that show the bad parts of war. PwrdOn brought up a quote from François Truffaut about how it's difficult to make an anti-war film because most filmmakers will use similar techniques they use in other more rousing films and as such may undercut the more serious message they were aiming for. I brought up Casualties of War as an example of a movie that avoids this by using a different approach. Heck, it's directed by a guy most known for doing thrillers, but he used a way more subtle story-telling style to get across the serious subject matter.

[CosmiComic]

Here's the "real" Washington Jones from the recent retelling calling out the stereotyping...



So it's kind of an exception. More often than not Marvel/DC would rather people just forget they published stuff like this. They usually don't have the fictional characters call out the publishing company.

Ok. I have heard of the character, and he's a fairly racist portrayal. Just looking at it makes me cringe.

Idk if this is exactly what people are calling for, though

[ed2962]

Ok. I have heard of the character, and he's a fairly racist portrayal. Just looking at it makes me cringe.

Idk if this is exactly what people are calling for, though

I think the concern might be that some fans instead of meeting certain stories at the level the stories were intended, those fans might be looking for the characters to be activists in the way the fans would wish to be.

[Besouro]

clarification--
they did not create the chicken logo. here's the deeper story:

http://dailyregiment.blogspot.com/20...-of-black.html

excerpt:

Many thanks for this info and for clarifying, I didn't know about it at all

[anyajenkins]

Why's it a buzzword? I think it applies pretty well to people who are too afraid of introspection, especially those from the majority. What word would you use?



Idk if it's in the company's best interest. But never saying anything because it threatens your bottom line isn't great either. I guess it depends on the specific situation.

I'm not sure what exception you're referring to

Imagine it this way, someone you know asks if they can borrow your computer, car and phone. They need to drive to their friend&s house because they have a really great for making a website that’s about how much you suck. Would most people go along with that? Probably not, would most people in the military go along with that, probably not. And it’s not as if the military doesn’t hear criticism (and have all kinds of ‘introspection’) on a pretty regular basis as it is.