Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[Surf]

Well, our household was one of the few who managed to save a little the past two years. It only took a global plague to pull that off. Still, unnecessary crowd interact right now, even if we're both vaccinated is not a real solid expenditure of time right now. I'm gonna make an effort to see Shang-Chi though and I'll most likely be solo. I kinda miss goin to the show, last one I got too COULDN'T have been Aquaman could it?? I think so..

[CosmiComic]

This basically shows unless everyone has some money, not everyone will make money.

[PwrdOn]

Sucks Shang is likely gonna underperform/bomb

September approaching rapidly and this delta spike will likely just begin dissipating by then.

Meh, Shang-Chi deserves to bomb. The movie was only made as a cynical cash grab for the Chinese market, but now it probably won't ever get released there because Marvel couldn't help but make it into an orientalist caricature. And this is especially bad because Chinese audiences generally love MCU films, even Black Panther made over $100 million there despite all the hand wringing in Western press about how racist Asians won't be interested in a movie about black people. So this movie either has to depend on the Asian-American audience, which is tiny and mostly can't identify with Shang-Chi anyway, or hope that it appeals to non-Asian viewers too, which is pretty unlikely because after all, there's a reason that Hollywood doesn't make movies with Asian leads and it's probably not that audiences are clamoring for it and the studios are just refusing to do so and costing themselves money in the process.

[MindofShadow]

Well, our household was one of the few who managed to save a little the past two years. It only took a global plague to pull that off. Still, unnecessary crowd interact right now, even if we're both vaccinated is not a real solid expenditure of time right now. I'm gonna make an effort to see Shang-Chi though and I'll most likely be solo. I kinda miss goin to the show, last one I got too COULDN'T have been Aquaman could it?? I think so..

The same time release stuff has been great for House of MoS. No babysitters needed, no extra ticket needed. Wife and I can watch easily from our couch.

I'm gonna miss it lol.

MCU wise... with the TV shows running constant... I actually haven't seen Black Widow yet. And with it being a prequel, there isn't even FOMO at all. Gonna wait til its free on Disney+

I'll likely go see Shang though in theaters because actually excited about that.

[ed2962]

Meh, Shang-Chi deserves to bomb. The movie was only made as a cynical cash grab for the Chinese market, but now it probably won't ever get released there because Marvel couldn't help but make it into an orientalist caricature. And this is especially bad because Chinese audiences generally love MCU films, even Black Panther made over $100 million there despite all the hand wringing in Western press about how racist Asians won't be interested in a movie about black people. So this movie either has to depend on the Asian-American audience, which is tiny and mostly can't identify with Shang-Chi anyway, or hope that it appeals to non-Asian viewers too, which is pretty unlikely because after all, there's a reason that Hollywood doesn't make movies with Asian leads and it's probably not that audiences are clamoring for it and the studios are just refusing to do so and costing themselves money in the process.

If anything, it looks like a generic action movie. Explosions, car crashes, fist fights, and just enuff "mysticism" to justify calling it a superhero movie. I'll admit, I'll eventually watch it, but it doesn't seem like anything unique.

[Surf]

The same time release stuff has been great for House of MoS. No babysitters needed, no extra ticket needed. Wife and I can watch easily from our couch.

I'm gonna miss it lol.

Dawg, there's a perk I hadn't considered before these viewing options happened due to the pandemic. Roasting the **** out of a brand new movie from the couch with the kids. I was on one when WW84 dropped, GvK too. Pandemic seems to picking back-up steam so I don't see to much of near end to the same day stream options. They even closed our Indiana State Fair a couple days a week during the run for 'cleaning'.

MCU wise... with the TV shows running constant... I actually haven't seen Black Widow yet. And with it being a prequel, there isn't even FOMO at all. Gonna wait til its free on Disney+

I'll likely go see Shang though in theaters because actually excited about that.

Them D+ shows stopped for me after the second/third time through Falc/Cap. I never found Loki as charming as most so I haven't started that (do wanna see dude as Kang onscreen though). I'm ready for Armor Wars tough, I thought these joints would be quasi back to back, look like that won't drop til '22.

I'm hip, without spoiling one of the biggest movies ever her ahh, exit in Infinity War was pretty perfect, prequel scmequel. Question is, will you drop the $30 for Eternals, personally I think that'll be a wait for me too.

Shang is different, I got the 5 year old chiming in, "ten rings" when the promos come on. I know I'm not getting a 1976 era Run Run Shaw production with this but I'm hoping it's not just blatantly forgettable. Mandarin deserved better than that corny-ass IM3 misdirect.

[Vic Vega]

Looks like if Shang Chi bombs in China it won't be because it's an orientalist caricature it will be because the idea of casting a non pop idol without pop idol appropriate plastic surgery has confused the hell out of the target audience.

They've been getting a steady diet of Anime looking dudes since 2000. At least. They weren't ready for this.

[MindofShadow]

Them D+ shows stopped for me after the second/third time through Falc/Cap. I never found Loki as charming as most so I haven't started that (do wanna see dude as Kang onscreen though). I'm ready for Armor Wars tough, I thought these joints would be quasi back to back, look like that won't drop til '22.

I might get more picky with the shows bc in the end, I didn't really like WV or Loki very much. Hawkeye is a "meh" for me, ditto for Ms. Marvel.

There is so much stuff competing for my limited entertainment time.

[font=georgia]



Question is, will you drop the $30 for Eternals, personally I think that'll be a wait for me too.

As of now..... Eternals is the the first MCU movie where I've had zero interest in at all. There wasn't one thing in the trailer/teaser(or any of the commercials during the olympics) that made me want to go see it at all.

Eternals and BP2 are the only movies on the slate that are in the "no" category atm. Eternals still has a chance to turn it around with a real trailer.

[PwrdOn]

Looks like if Shang Chi bombs in China it won't be because it's an orientalist caricature it will be because the idea of casting a non pop idol without pop idol appropriate plastic surgery has confused the hell out of the target audience.

They've been getting a steady diet of Anime looking dudes since 2000. At least. They weren't ready for this.

I mean, the MCU films have all made tons of money in China so I think it's safe to say they are pretty familiar with the overall Marvel aesthetic and enjoy it. The complaints were more that the Shang Chi actor was just some unknown that nobody had ever seen in anything before and didn't have the same kind of star power that the other MCU leading men have. To be fair, it'd be pretty difficult to find any Asian actors based in the West that have any kind of widespread name recognition.

Also, this idea that pop culture in Asia is especially shallow and superficial compared to the rest of the world is itself an orientalist stereotype. If anything, the obsession with plastic surgery and an artificial, doll-like look is a very recent development that comes from a desire to emulate Western beauty standards, something which most Asian people obviously can't achieve naturally. And it's not like the prevailing square jawed, roided out superhero look is any less fake, nor is anything else about the general look and vibe of Western celebrity culture any less manufactured than in Asia. They certainly didn't just pull random dudes off the street to play Thor and Captain America.

[CosmiComic]

I mean, the MCU films have all made tons of money in China so I think it's safe to say they are pretty familiar with the overall Marvel aesthetic and enjoy it. The complaints were more that the Shang Chi actor was just some unknown that nobody had ever seen in anything before and didn't have the same kind of star power that the other MCU leading men have. To be fair, it'd be pretty difficult to find any Asian actors based in the West that have any kind of widespread name recognition.

Also, this idea that pop culture in Asia is especially shallow and superficial compared to the rest of the world is itself an orientalist stereotype. If anything, the obsession with plastic surgery and an artificial, doll-like look is a very recent development that comes from a desire to emulate Western beauty standards, something which most Asian people obviously can't achieve naturally. And it's not like the prevailing square jawed, roided out superhero look is any less fake, nor is anything else about the general look and vibe of Western celebrity culture any less manufactured than in Asia. They certainly didn't just pull random dudes off the street to play Thor and Captain America.

I have noticed a lot of people using this situation to act like Hollywood is above being superficial, when it's not. That 'square jawed, blue eyed' stereotype of 'attractive men' is part of the reason Asian actors can't get prominence in Hollywood.

[MindofShadow]

The complaints were more that the Shang Chi actor was just some unknown that nobody had ever seen in anything before and didn't have the same kind of star power that the other MCU leading men have.

Eh, the MCU was built on the back of RDJ + no names.

Hell, only Boseman had box office leading man on his resume. RDJ was a druggy, then Evans, Pratt, Hemsworth, Ruffalo, Holland Rudd weren't known for anything movie wise. Larson and Benedict have a "name" but never lead anything that made big money on the big screen

[Agent Z]

I mean, the MCU films have all made tons of money in China so I think it's safe to say they are pretty familiar with the overall Marvel aesthetic and enjoy it. The complaints were more that the Shang Chi actor was just some unknown that nobody had ever seen in anything before and didn't have the same kind of star power that the other MCU leading men have. To be fair, it'd be pretty difficult to find any Asian actors based in the West that have any kind of widespread name recognition.

Also, this idea that pop culture in Asia is especially shallow and superficial compared to the rest of the world is itself an orientalist stereotype. If anything, the obsession with plastic surgery and an artificial, doll-like look is a very recent development that comes from a desire to emulate Western beauty standards, something which most Asian people obviously can't achieve naturally. And it's not like the prevailing square jawed, roided out superhero look is any less fake, nor is anything else about the general look and vibe of Western celebrity culture any less manufactured than in Asia. They certainly didn't just pull random dudes off the street to play Thor and Captain America.

No one is saying that Hollywood is immune to superficiality and shallowness. Pointing that Simu Liu's looks are a factor in why he wasn't well received by some people in mainland China is not glorifying Hollywood.

[Username taken]

Looks like if Shang Chi bombs in China it won't be because it's an orientalist caricature it will be because the idea of casting a non pop idol without pop idol appropriate plastic surgery has confused the hell out of the target audience.

They've been getting a steady diet of Anime looking dudes since 2000. At least. They weren't ready for this.

I actually laughed out loud at this because it's a cold hard truth.

Seriously, look at their pop stars.

[Agent Z]

We may or may not be getting Idris Elba as Knuckles the Echidna in the Sonic movie sequel.

https://kotaku.com/idris-elba-teases...460243#replies

Also, I learned today that some fans code Knuckles as black. Which is odd to me considering Sonic is the one who was voiced by a black guy.

[PwrdOn]

No one is saying that Hollywood is immune to superficiality and shallowness. Pointing that Simu Liu's looks are a factor in why he wasn't well received by some people in mainland China is not glorifying Hollywood.

The point is that people had plenty of valid reasons for not wanting to watch Shang-Chi, and making it out to be a bunch of wacky foreigners who can't handle a movie star not looking like a plastic pop idol is just resorting to caricatures to gloss over the poor decisions of a movie studio failing to understand its intended audience. Both Crazy Rich Asians and Mulan flopped in the Asian market for much of the same reasons. As it turns out, trying to sell people a watered down version of their own culture and then blaming them when it doesn't do well isn't really a good way to go about it.

And yeah, it does suck for Simu Liu, especially since this is his first major role and his career is kind of hinging on this movie doing well, that he probably will just go down as the guy who was seen as too ugly to play a superhero, but someone who has chosen an acting career should be prepared for this sort of thing. Let's not pretend like it's only those wacky Asian people who care more about how movie stars look than how well they can act or how well they fit the role, it's just that our culture has this strange taboo against commenting on men's looks that isn't really found elsewhere. If they had cast an average looking dude off the street as Captain America, maybe people wouldn't be all over Twitter complaining about how the guy isn't handsome enough to play Cap, but they would for sure be thinking that and would find ways to express the same idea without saying it in so many words.