Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[CosmiComic]

I tend to think that true “preachiness” in art can only really come with hypocrisy - which is of course going to be much rarer when dealing with true representation behind the camera.

On the other hand, if context, subtext, or just plain text reveals a hypocrisy, than it can feel preachy because it doesn’t seem to practice what it’s ostensibly about. Like how The Force Awakens practiced inclusion well enough to establish a context where Lucasfilm’s subtextual bias and prejudice towards Adam Driver as Kylo Ren was revealed by The Last Jedi, even though The Last Jedi’s most vocal defenders try to argue it was making a statement.

Because we saw that Star Wars was perfectly capable of having a female main character and a black male lead, we saw that her story didn’t neccessarily need a connection to a pre-established “patriarchy,” and we saw that having a close relationship with pseudo-romantic vibes between a black guy and a white girl wasn’t driving off anyone… before The Last Jedi came in an immediately started pimping out Rey’s credibility to try and push Kylo as the male lead and de-facto main protagonist because of his family while seeming to freak out about Finn so much it banished him and the rest of the cast’s non-white actors to a subplot of a subplot of pointless failure.

There, when people claimed TLJ was progressive, it stunk of hypocrisy. The film couldn’t “go woke, get broke” because it wasn’t “woke” in the first place.

(Don’t get me wrong; Luke’s fans got pissed or very predictable reasons, and the family story arguably needed Rey to be a Skywalker… but those are different aspects of TLJ’s issues.)

I don't think Rey needed to be a Skywalker, but I understand why Luke's fans disliked TLJ. I'm one of those people.

However, hating TLJ because it's "progressive" is downright idiotic. It's not even that progressive. That's basically what I'm getting at. These movies and shows get bashed for anything slightly atypical.

[godisawesome]

I don't think Rey needed to be a Skywalker, but I understand why Luke's fans disliked TLJ. I'm one of those people.

However, hating TLJ because it's "progressive" is downright idiotic. It's not even that progressive. That's basically what I'm getting at. These movies and shows get bashed for anything slightly atypical.

I’d argue that the family story needed Rey to be a Skywalker because Ben Solo alone is a **** stain of a third generation to revoke ROTJ’s ending for, but I digress…

The greater point being made about hating movies for being progressive *is*, as you have stated, downright idiotic. Part of the reason I find myself arguing with some of my “fellow” critics of the ST, even as someone who hates 2/3rds of it, is because I don’t want the narrative that people hate it for being progressive to remain in the public consciousness. There’s some ST haters who *are* racist and sexist, and wish to hijack the backlash against TLJ and TROS as matching their (utterly impotent and meaningless, considering it made $2 Billion) rejection of TFA… and there’s some ST gushers who wish to paint all critics as racists and sexists.

Intriguingly… I’ve noticed that disappointed Finn fans often demonstrate greater perspective of where the story went wrong with Rey than some other critics; Finn fans rarely throw around the sexism-tinged accusations of Rey being a “Mary Sue,” even though many are angry about TFA arguably “baiting them” to conceal Rey as the Force user. I think they’ll generally smart enough to detect a similar bias against Rey to the one Finn experiences, just demonstrated a different way.

[Vic Vega]

I tend to think that true “preachiness” in art can only really come with hypocrisy - which is of course going to be much rarer when dealing with true representation behind the camera.

On the other hand, if context, subtext, or just plain text reveals a hypocrisy, than it can feel preachy because it doesn’t seem to practice what it’s ostensibly about. Like how The Force Awakens practiced inclusion well enough to establish a context where Lucasfilm’s subtextual bias and prejudice towards Adam Driver as Kylo Ren was revealed by The Last Jedi, even though The Last Jedi’s most vocal defenders try to argue it was making a statement.

Because we saw that Star Wars was perfectly capable of having a female main character and a black male lead, we saw that her story didn’t neccessarily need a connection to a pre-established “patriarchy,” and we saw that having a close relationship with pseudo-romantic vibes between a black guy and a white girl wasn’t driving off anyone… before The Last Jedi came in an immediately started pimping out Rey’s credibility to try and push Kylo as the male lead and de-facto main protagonist because of his family while seeming to freak out about Finn so much it banished him and the rest of the cast’s non-white actors to a subplot of a subplot of pointless failure.

There, when people claimed TLJ was progressive, it stunk of hypocrisy. The film couldn’t “go woke, get broke” because it wasn’t “woke” in the first place.

(Don’t get me wrong; Luke’s fans got pissed or very predictable reasons, and the family story arguably needed Rey to be a Skywalker… but those are different aspects of TLJ’s issues.)

Star Wars' creators and its fans alike were way too obsessed with dynasty for the projects good.

Rey never needed to be revealed to be a Skywalker. Her story is just as valid if her parents were bums who sold her for space crack.

Even more so because it means that anybody can be a Force User not just the Skywalkers and/or the Palpitines.

This dynastic obsession forced them to pull Palpitine's resurrection out of thier behinds because they never realky established a series big bad nor did they seem to ever think about how the 3rd act would even work if you face turned Kylo Ren who should have been the series big bad after you got rid of everyone else.

Dude killed Han Solo-he shouldn't get to have a redemption arc. Jesus.

Luke's fans should have been mad that TFA positions him as a inept Jedi Master who in 30 YEARS somehow never managed to train a single Jedi to Knighthood. Not one.

That the dude broke down at the idea of having to regulate/ apprehend/likely kill his nephew who murdered his best friend is pretty freaking understandable if you ask me.

The second movie (which despite its faults is actually the best one in my opinion) committed so hard on the idea of Rey and Kylo as a possible couple that it hurts both Rey and Finn's characters. However Finn ( and Rose) got the worst of it, the scene that might have saved his character was actually filmed but cut for time. Why?

I guess they needed the time for Kylo to make goo goo eyes at Rey. That must have been paramount.

It just kicks the idea that the movie is all that woke/progressive in the nuts when the movie capes so hard for the white face turned villain storyline and the White couples will they/won't they romance at the expense of all the POC characters screen time. Or even a coherent final act for the movie itself.

For example there was a lot of looking around for Palpitine's secret compass, then for Palpitine's secret base. All that wasted time could have been used to say, confront and free the 5 Knights of Ren who would have been revealed to be Luke's surviving students who could have helped out in the final battle.

That would have at least redeemed Luke by default if his some of his students actually did something even if some of them died in the final battle with the big bad.

[Agent Z]

I still maintain that a Finn/Rose relationship would have been more interesting than Finn/Rey. That said, Rey and Kylo was also a bad idea.

[Agent Z]

For anyone who watches it, is Reservation Dogs antiblack? I keep seeing that criticism pop up.

[MindofShadow]

I still maintain that a Finn/Rose relationship would have been more interesting than Finn/Rey. That said, Rey and Kylo was also a bad idea.

eh, just felt like he was being lectured by Rose the whole time.

Both relationships sucked. I didn't care about either of them.

The only relationship I cared for was the one teased...i cared about his relationship to a lightsaber lol.

[Overhazard]

eh, just felt like he was being lectured by Rose the whole time.

Both relationships sucked. I didn't care about either of them.

The only relationship I cared for was the one teased...i cared about his relationship to a lightsaber lol.

I get that Johnson was trying to make a point, but Finn, a black man who was a former brainwashed child soldier, did not need a lecture on how war and slavery is bad. He should have been giving that speech.

That bait and switch with the lightsaber was so cruel. Okay fine, finn is better with ranged weapons than melee ones, but he got beaten by a no name stormtrooper. When TFA came out there were these thinkpieces about how great Finn is because he subverted stereotypes of black male characters. I wanted to scream.

[Ragged Maw]

I too would've liked the recent trilogy to avert the whole "galaxy hinges (mainly) on the two feuding factions of space wizards" flavor of the last one, with Finn being the viewpoint "badass normal" (think Starlord, but less goofy/annoying). Sure the Jedi/Sith do some fairly important **** in the background, but both ought to be not nearly as "center stage" as they once were due mostly to having DECIMATED THE **** OUT OF EACH OTHER, so much so that they're essentially on figurative life support. Hell the Jedi's arc should be less "fighting in another war" and more "shopping for real estate to build their new temple & training grounds" or "revising their doctrines and policies to ensure another pissed off kid they trained doesn't go mad from blue balls/ovaries and slaughter them while harping on about sand."

[MindofShadow]

I get that Johnson was trying to make a point, but Finn, a black man who was a former brainwashed child soldier, did not need a lecture on how war and slavery is bad. He should have been giving that speech.

That bait and switch with the lightsaber was so cruel. Okay fine, finn is better with ranged weapons than melee ones, but he got beaten by a no name stormtrooper. When TFA came out there were these thinkpieces about how great Finn is because he subverted stereotypes of black male characters. I wanted to scream.

When Rose stopped him from kamikazi'ing and gave him another lecture, I wanted to scream.

I too would've liked the recent trilogy to avert the whole "galaxy hinges (mainly) on the two feuding factions of space wizards" flavor of the last one, with Finn being the viewpoint "badass normal" (think Starlord, but less goofy/annoying).

There was no real going back after the JediFinn trick... but if they at least kept him as competent as he was int he novelizations (top 1% stormtroooper) then he could have been salvaged action wise.

Sure the Jedi/Sith do some fairly important **** in the background, but both ought to be not nearly as "center stage" as they once were due mostly to having DECIMATED THE **** OUT OF EACH OTHER, so much so that they're essentially on figurative life support. Hell the Jedi's arc should be less "fighting in another war" and more "shopping for real estate to build their new temple & training grounds".

Star Wars higher ups keep wanting to have force users in the spotlight (makes since, they are cool. It is what a lot of peopel think when they here star wars) but then keep killing them all off.

Stop killing them all man lol.

The sequel trilogy should have been the Yuuzhan Vong War. give us a NON sith bad guys while allowing Luke to rebuild the Jedi forces.

You get the "new" breed of jedi, you get a non sith bad guy, no more dark side light side stuff. No more balance talks. Give us something a lil different while still allowing the "old" stuff to be there.

You can spin the new "dark side" user out of the war if you wanted (Jedi tapped into darkside to defeat XYZ somewhere and starts to turn). Or not.

You can also do so many spin offs with that.

instead, they F'd the sequel trilogy up so bad, LucasFilms just keeps going back in time lol (mando, asoka, bad batch, ect)

[Agent Z]

When Rose stopped him from kamikazi'ing and gave him another lecture, I wanted to scream.



There was no real going back after the JediFinn trick... but if they at least kept him as competent as he was int he novelizations (top 1% stormtroooper) then he could have been salvaged action wise.



Star Wars higher ups keep wanting to have force users in the spotlight (makes since, they are cool. It is what a lot of peopel think when they here star wars) but then keep killing them all off.

Stop killing them all man lol.

The sequel trilogy should have been the Yuuzhan Vong War. give us a NON sith bad guys while allowing Luke to rebuild the Jedi forces.

You get the "new" breed of jedi, you get a non sith bad guy, no more dark side light side stuff. No more balance talks. Give us something a lil different while still allowing the "old" stuff to be there.

You can spin the new "dark side" user out of the war if you wanted (Jedi tapped into darkside to defeat XYZ somewhere and starts to turn). Or not.

You can also do so many spin offs with that.

instead, they F'd the sequel trilogy up so bad, LucasFilms just keeps going back in time lol (mando, asoka, bad batch, ect)

I haven't read it but isn't the Yuuzhan Vong War kind of infamous among fans for some reason?

[Username taken]

When Rose stopped him from kamikazi'ing and gave him another lecture, I wanted to scream.



There was no real going back after the JediFinn trick... but if they at least kept him as competent as he was int he novelizations (top 1% stormtroooper) then he could have been salvaged action wise.



Star Wars higher ups keep wanting to have force users in the spotlight (makes since, they are cool. It is what a lot of peopel think when they here star wars) but then keep killing them all off.

Stop killing them all man lol.

The sequel trilogy should have been the Yuuzhan Vong War. give us a NON sith bad guys while allowing Luke to rebuild the Jedi forces.

You get the "new" breed of jedi, you get a non sith bad guy, no more dark side light side stuff. No more balance talks. Give us something a lil different while still allowing the "old" stuff to be there.

You can spin the new "dark side" user out of the war if you wanted (Jedi tapped into darkside to defeat XYZ somewhere and starts to turn). Or not.

You can also do so many spin offs with that.

instead, they F'd the sequel trilogy up so bad, LucasFilms just keeps going back in time lol (mando, asoka, bad batch, ect)

The bolded part is really a problem for me.

There's so much stuff they could with the mythology but instead Lucasfilm keeps moving further and further back in time. Now we have the High Republic project which is set way, way back.

Why not move forward in the universe? Dark Horse did this fairly well (not always but they had some good stuff) and I don't know why Lucasfilm are stuck in the past and feeding off nostalgia.

[Overhazard]

The bolded part is really a problem for me.

There's so much stuff they could with the mythology but instead Lucasfilm keeps moving further and further back in time. Now we have the High Republic project which is set way, way back.

Why not move forward in the universe? Dark Horse did this fairly well (not always but they had some good stuff) and I don't know why Lucasfilm are stuck in the past and feeding off nostalgia.

That's what I thought, they could just mine the good stuff from the EU and leave the bad stuff out. They brought in Thrawn and the Darksaber, Im sure there's other stuff they can use.

[Username taken]

I get that Johnson was trying to make a point, but Finn, a black man who was a former brainwashed child soldier, did not need a lecture on how war and slavery is bad. He should have been giving that speech.

That bait and switch with the lightsaber was so cruel. Okay fine, finn is better with ranged weapons than melee ones, but he got beaten by a no name stormtrooper. Black people aren't props to place in front of your movie just to generate interest in the

They also didn't really get the implication of the bait and switch with Finn especially in a genre that doesn't really have many black protagonists. Finn's story cWhen TFA came out there were these thinkpieces about how great Finn is because he subverted stereotypes of black male characters. I wanted to scream.

That is some of the stuff that just annoys a lot of people. Seriously.

I'm also not sure that Lucasfilm really considered the optics of a young black man seemingly devoted and constantly screaming after the female white protagonist. The female white protagonist that apparently had no time for him during the Rise of Skywalker. Lucasfilm really commodified Finn's race by placing front and centre of the marketing with the lightsaber to appear "progressive" when this really was never the case. Boyega himself appears to be worn out by the entire ordeal, the young man has all but said he's never doing Star Wars again.

IMO, Finn's story could have been very intriguing- a former Stormtrooper that was kidnapped from his home that is strong in the force and could be a Sith or a Jedi depending on how strong his will was. Instead we basically got a vague re-tread of Luke's journey with Rey complete with a Sith father.

[CosmiComic]

That's another problem. They wasted the potential for Finn's storyline, which could've been interesting and unique in Star Wars

[Starter Set]

I'm also not sure that Lucasfilm really considered the optics of a young black man seemingly devoted and constantly screaming after the female white protagonist

Disney you mean.