Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[numberthirty]

I mean, boo whoo? Create your own stuff then no?

You can't get the benefits of profiting off something you "created" AND get the benefits of the job security, money, and the other things the Big 2 provide. That is the trade off (just like every other profession where owning own business vs working for someone).

Plus.. do you give him credit for "creating" the character? Or do you give Kieren credit for putting him on Young Avengers and popularizing her? or Ewing credit for putting her on Ultimates?

Comic creation is incredibly tricky when stuck inside the Big 2. It isn't as easy as going "the creator gets the credit" because did anyone even read Vengeance lol? The original drawings of her there look nothign like the movie as they seem more based on Young Avengers.

Im just kinda sick of these duded boo whooing when they know what they signed and aren't owned anything just so they can go "big bad cooperation that I worked for and paid me isn't being fair"

Politely, I believe that this oversimplifies it a bit.

Let's take something like a "Major Label..." recording contract...

Almost every time, the label will own an artist/bands recordings when all is said and done.

Should that ownership mean that the band gets cut out of the money made entirely if one of their songs is on a soundtrack that does big money?

I don't know that anyone should be making a killing off of "Work For Hire..." characters. That said, a slightly better deal for creators in not exactly handing the entire world to them on a silver platter.

[Besouro]

Wait, what?! Xer0? Seriously?! I'm glad Priest is looking for some redemption for what *should* have been a great comic book.

Agreed!!!!!!

[Besouro]

I'm definitely interested in what they do with it.

Same here..... I hope they go the tv series route instead of a movie for Xero.

[Besouro]

I've heard similar stories of people from the South seeing a Jew for the first time and wondering why they don't have horns.

Oh my goodness.....WTF!!!!!!

[MindofShadow]

SHocking i know but

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/f...ns-1235230373/


Fantastic Beasts 3 removed "gay dialogue" for China

[MasterOfMagnetism]

SHocking i know but

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/f...ns-1235230373/


Fantastic Beasts 3 removed "gay dialogue" for China

This is why I don't give a crap when China bans American movies from their theatres. The sooner Hollywood stops relying on the Chinese BO the better. Not that there isn't rampant homophobia in the West but we're not gonna' see better diversity in mainstream projects until Hollywood stops kow-towing to China. I've been saying this for years.

On a semi-related note I'm surprised that this movie even acknowledges that Dumbledore is gay tbh. I'm not invested in the Harry Potter world at all, but I fully expected to hear that this movie would only have more "subtext".

[ed2962]

This is why I don't give a crap when China bans American movies from their theatres. The sooner Hollywood stops relying on the Chinese BO the better. Not that there isn't rampant homophobia in the West but we're not gonna' see better diversity in mainstream projects until Hollywood stops kow-towing to China. I've been saying this for years.

On a semi-related note I'm surprised that this movie even acknowledges that Dumbledore is gay tbh. I'm not invested in the Harry Potter world at all, but I fully expected to hear that this movie would only have more "subtext".

Well, remember these corporations aren't just happy with making some money or alot or money...they want all the money they can get, and for them it's doing well in the global market. Keep in mind, it's Hollywood deliberately seeking out that market.

Having said that, I do think it's kind of funny that there's a version of "Fight Club" in China that the government (?) had a tacked on epilogue that states in the end the police showed and everything was fine.

[Vic Vega]

I mean, boo whoo? Create your own stuff then no?

You can't get the benefits of profiting off something you "created" AND get the benefits of the job security, money, and the other things the Big 2 provide. That is the trade off (just like every other profession where owning own business vs working for someone).

Plus.. do you give him credit for "creating" the character? Or do you give Kieren credit for putting him on Young Avengers and popularizing her? or Ewing credit for putting her on Ultimates?

Comic creation is incredibly tricky when stuck inside the Big 2. It isn't as easy as going "the creator gets the credit" because did anyone even read Vengeance lol? The original drawings of her there look nothign like the movie as they seem more based on Young Avengers.

Im just kinda sick of these duded boo whooing when they know what they signed and aren't owned anything just so they can go "big bad cooperation that I worked for and paid me isn't being fair"

Here's the thing.

There's a difference between ownership rights and royalties.

Joe Casey is bitching about the latter and not the former.

For example, back when DC was run by Dick Giordano DC had a royalty plan that worked something like this: if say, Firestorm shows up in an episode of the Justice League cartoon for one minute the creators (the people who conceived and designed the character) get a little check. At no point did anybody declare that DC didn't own Firestorm, just that the creators were due royalties on outside media appearances.

Now if Firestorm was in the whole episode those creators would get a bigger check. This would apply anytime any DC character appeared in outside media.

The more the character showed up and the longer those appearances were for the bigger the check.

Now this is where the creators are at fault. They DIDN'T go to Marvel and say "match this royalty deal or we out".

When Dick Giordano retired and DC stopped paying royalties based on outside media appearances they DIDN'T say to DC "Fuck that shit. Either bring back the old method of compensation, or we out".

The thing about this is that most of these dudes are so scared of losing their jobs that they take any shit they are offered and when guys like Neal Adams and Frank Miller try to start Unions they just nodded thier heads and then don't do shit.

Frankly this should have all been fixed in the 90's when the Image dudes all left Marvel. They could have gone to Marvel and DC with their demands. What were they gonna do fire them? They were short on manpower as it was. They had management over a barrel.

But most of those dudes were just happy they could now get on those top selling books with better pay rates now that the fan favorites had left and didn't try to improve shit or unionize or nothing.

Now that movies based on comics are a thing, every creator of even a minor character (like say Groot or Okoye or that Rock dude from the Hulk comics) might feel buyers remorse because they feel like they should been getting big checks instead of the small check, singular that they are getting now. If they even get A check (Jim Starlin didn't, and he created Thanos).


But you could say the comics creators dudes that were in the industry in the 80's, 90's and even early aughts brought this on themselves ( don't know when Joe Casey started out so this mights not apply to him so much) by taking checks and keeping quiet and not advocating for themselves, like ever( with a few notable exceptions like Neal Adams and Frank Miller).

Amazon workers have more guts and self respect than comics creators and it isn't even close.

[MindofShadow]

On a semi-related note I'm surprised that this movie even acknowledges that Dumbledore is gay tbh.

For 6 seconds it appears anyway lol

[ed2962]

Here's the thing.

There's a difference between ownership rights and royalties.

Joe Casey is bitching about the latter and not the former.

For example, back when DC was run by Dick Giordano DC had a royalty plan that worked something like this: if say, Firestorm shows up in an episode of the Justice League cartoon for one minute the creators (the people who conceived and designed the character) get a little check. At no point did anybody declare that DC didn't own Firestorm, just that the creators were due royalties on outside media appearances.

Now if Firestorm was in the whole episode those creators would get a bigger check. This would apply anytime any DC character appeared in outside media.

The more the character showed up and the longer those appearances were for the bigger the check.

Now this is where the creators are at fault. They DIDN'T go to Marvel and say "match this royalty deal or we out".

When Dick Giordano retired and DC stopped paying royalties based on outside media appearances they DIDN'T say to DC "Fuck that shit. Either bring back the old method of compensation, or we out".

The thing about this is that most of these dudes are so scared of losing their jobs that they take any shit they are offered and when guys like Neal Adams and Frank Miller try to start Unions they just nodded thier heads and then don't do shit.

Frankly this should have all been fixed in the 90's when the Image dudes all left Marvel. They could have gone to Marvel and DC with their demands. What were they gonna do fire them? They were short on manpower as it was. They had management over a barrel.

But most of those dudes were just happy they could now get on those top selling books with better pay rates now that the fan favorites had left and didn't try to improve shit or unionize or nothing.

Now that movies based on comics are a thing, every creator of even a minor character (like say Groot or Okoye or that Rock dude from the Hulk comics) might feel buyers remorse because they feel like they should been getting big checks instead of the small check, singular that they are getting now. If they even get A check (Jim Starlin didn't, and he created Thanos).


But you could say the comics creators dudes that were in the industry in the 80's, 90's and even early aughts brought this on themselves ( don't know when Joe Casey started out so this mights not apply to him so much) by taking checks and keeping quiet and not advocating for themselves, like ever( with a few notable exceptions like Neal Adams and Frank Miller).

Amazon workers have more guts and self respect than comics creators and it isn't even close.

Yeah, but it's complicated. With Joe Casey, it seems to be less buyer's remorse or him boo-hooing and more him trying to negotiate for a better deal. He hasn't worked for Marvel in like 10 years and turned down their first offer when America Chavez was getting optioned for other media. Him going public is him trying to play hardball.

(For what it's worth, there was supposed to be a "in all but name" America Chavez comic --All American Comix--coming from Image a few years ago. I know at least one issue was produced but I never saw it in the stores. I'm there's an interesting story there.)

As far as the guys in the 70's not standing up...a lot of these guys grew up in the 30's and 40's were a little embarrassed about ending up in comic books in the first place and were definitely afraid of losing their jobs. Sales were slowing declining and there was always this talk about where the industry was going be in 10yrs. If you were Curt Swan or John Buscema maybe you had some leverage, but if you were Don Heck what were you going to do?

Having said that, copyright laws were changing and Marvel and DC started giving creators checks with statements on the back saying that they had no claim on any rights connected to their work there. A lot of folks signed them, but a number of people would line out the statement before they endorsed the check.

It's also no secret that Marvel started the Epic Line because the early 80's indies ( Pacific, First, Eclipse...) were starting to lure away artists from the Big 2. They wouldn't get as much upfront but they retained rights to the characters.

Thing is with Image, the founders said, "We want X or we walk." Marvel management said, "Fine get lost. At this point we can get anyone to draw these things and they'll sell." And they weren't wrong. A lot of hack work was coming out of Marvel and the comics continued to be popular. They went bankrupt because of bad business deals not because they lost sales.

And for what it's worth, both Marvel and DC have tried legal jujitsu to getting out of paying people even when there's a clear contract. Whether it's Rob Leifeld, Gerry Conway, or Tony Isabella, I'm sure there's scores of others we don't hear about.

[skyvolt2000]

Joe Casey said he knows that Marvel owns Ms America. He knows that Marvel doesn't exactly owe him anything based on what he signed with them.

There was an additional negotiation for further compensation considering the character's appearances but what Marvel offered him was ridiculous.

His main gripe is how creators are generally compensated for situations like these where they create characters that gain multimedia exposure but compensation is limited to page rates. IMO, he has a very good point. I think it's fair that Marvel reaches out to him to offer him something above basic page rates if the character he created for them is generating them huge income. But the additional compensation should be something fair and not something paltry.

Honestly, I would suggest creators get unionized to ensure adequate compensation for cases like these. I believe Image comics recently had their workers get unionized.

Or a better idea if unions don't work out.....

Go to Marvel or DC WIKI and hunt down some characters that are NOT being used.

Jace Fox as Batman boosted the sales of his first appearance WAY more than Punchline, Clown Hunter and Miracle Molly first appearances.

Same with Tim Drake's boyfriend.

[skyvolt2000]

And for what it's worth, both Marvel and DC have tried legal jujitsu to getting out of paying people even when there's a clear contract. Whether it's Rob Leifeld, Gerry Conway, or Tony Isabella, I'm sure there's scores of others we don't hear about.

Dan Decarlo and family

The Ultraverse guys

All say HI....

[OopsIdiditagain]

Has anyone watched Taika Waititi's new show our flag means death?


The cast is full of great comedians and it's a really good show.

[4sake Baned]

Has anyone watched Taika Waititi's new show our flag means death?


The cast is full of great comedians and it's a really good show.

Yeah it’s pretty good mi h better then I though it would be.

[Username taken]

Florida's governor is trying to eliminate two districts with black representatives. He's trying to make representation race neutral. *sigh*. This basically violates the civil rights bill that provides adequate minority representation in the House. Florida is just generally weird and I find what the governor is doing there to be very oppressive. Seriously, he's going after private businesses for criticizing laws (as well as no longer donating to the GOP), it's setting a very dangerous precedent when actual free speech (not some dorks complaining about being banned on Youtube or Twitter) is being restricted like this.

The GOP has pretty much successfully tackled abortion and I'd be surprised if Roe v Wade isn't overturned. It's the same with the fight against LGBTIQ people rights, it's a war that the GOP look like winning because of how Trump stacked the Federal Courts with GOP hacks (see the recent Judge that struck down mask mandates in airlines, she's 35 with little experience, was termed as "unqualified" by the American Bar Association, but is married to a Trump associate). And a lot of US voters are still living in the past where LGBTIQ people are still labelled as "pedophiles". As an aside, I find the GOP hiding behind children to pass all sort of stupid laws to be incredibly creepy.

Anyways, I mentioned it a while back that I won't be surprised if the GOP start trying to strip away parts of the civil rights bill. It's all just part of the backlash to Obama winning the presidential elections twice and Trump losing badly and embarrassingly to Biden. It's like a certain group of people have realized that they've lost power and are doing everything they can to take it back. I'm curious how this will play out in the elections, the GOP seem prepared to lose massive segments of the population forever, DeSantis in particular is gunning for the White House but I don't see how he plans to win seeing as there will likely be a massive minority turnout at the polls to prevent a bully and a bigot being elected into the White House.