Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[skyvolt2000]

Twitter, true to form, is making the she hulk twerking thing bigger than it actually is.

"You don't like watching TWO SEXY WOMEN TWERK?, You can't handle all that STEP ON ME MOMMY ENERGY?! Just come out already princess!" -Progressive Twitter, forward thinking as always.

"Women having fun is bad, I can't stand twerking, this is so gross and wrong." -Alt Right twitter, foaming at the mouth since 2012.

I watched the episode again, and once again I didn't think the twerking was a big deal. This show, once it's over, is going to be the subject of a few think-pieces and video essays by breadtubers and gators about how it's the greatest or worst thing ever, then it'll get memory holed until the next thing. Look at how quick people forgot about Obi-Wan.

Give them time the action figures of her just came out. We'll see how many get trashed online.


As for the next thing to throw a fit about...

I am shocked it's NOT being talked about is Disney's Strange Worlds movie. Coming out after Black Panther: Farewell T'Challa.

A few of the books are in stores now.

In France where they will not get the movie in theaters-they did a presentation with clips and revealed the other cast.

Gabrielle Union is in it as the mom and Jake's wife.

The son??? Well the clip they showed was him being embarrassed by his Dad in front of his crush. Another boy. First Disney movie with a black (biracial) boy as a lead (if you go by the first press on this movie and the books) is gay.

So we all might as well get ready for that. As if Wakanda Forever won't be a war. Wonder whose side the gators will be on that one.

Because Disney is not showing much faith in this movie. Where is the merchandise at?

Everybody else had stuff in stores by now.

Heck even Miles has stuff in store and his does not come out until June 2023.

[hyped78]

Yeah, Amazon has had to suspend their reviews for about 3 days or something.

The part that is troubling is most of the negative reviews are centered around the skin color of dwarves, and elves and how the series has a "feminist agenda" because Galadriel killed an Ice Troll by herself.

On some of the websites like Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic there is a huge gap between critics' reviews and audience reviews, e.g. in Rotten Tomatoes it's 84% positive from critics and 39% from the audience - this is clearly review bombing

[Agent Z]

"You don't like watching TWO SEXY WOMEN TWERK?, You can't handle all that STEP ON ME MOMMY ENERGY?! Just come out already princess!" -Progressive Twitter, forward thinking as always.
.

..... Huh?

[CSTowle]

In fairness, and I'm not psychologist here but just a guy with an opinion, I think negativity is overblown in general and we tend to notice those who have opinions that don't match ours far more than we do those that agree with ours. Maybe it's an inherent bias where when we see an agreeable opinion we see it as right and expected so it doesn't ping our radar, where if someone says "That thing you like sucks" or even "that thing that happened in the thing you like sucks, but the rest was cool" we're drawn to "correcting" their opinion or at least expressing our own.

It's more interesting to debate "which is the best era of the Avengers/X-Men/Justice League" or "who made the best Robin" because there's going to be an argument and salty opinions vs a discussion on how great the current fill-in-the-blank series is. Part of us wants the fight, and to shut down those we feel are wrong. Or at the least those who feel that way are more likely to engage or continue to engage/click/post than those who come in with a "I think the new show is pretty good" and then head off after having said their piece.

And when that's the case it's natural that social media, message boards, articles, etc. are going to target those audiences and controversies or manufacture them in order to get the clicks/views (which often means money). To take one recent example the Luis Guzman casting as Gomez Addams. I have no doubt in a world where racism and stupidity are common traits that people are more than willing to demonstrate online there is someone out there who were upset at this.

But I never saw one of them. I saw a metric f##k-ton of counter/blowback arguments against this nearly nonexistent opinion though everywhere I went online, from Facebook to Reddit to mainstream news sites. It felt more like an attempt to drum up controversy to get people talking about a new series and to insulate themselves from criticism than an actual mainstream problematic view. And it got plenty of attention and "yeah, f##k those guys!" responses (and plenty of PR/free advertising for the series). It felt like they were taking a page from the Trump playbook, get people talking about you and it doesn't matter if it's bad or if it's good, it's on your mind.

As to Luis Guzman, I don't know anybody who doesn't like him except folks who are too young to know who he is. And on negativity, I think we have a bit of responsibility (which I often fail at, especially when it comes to political discussions) to recognize negativity and that argument trap and just avoid engaging. It's emotionally satisfying to "defeat" someone in an internet debate, but the emotional toll all of that negativity and our engagement in it has on us isn't worth the effort and ultimately doesn't make a difference in the other person's opinion (or rarely enough to not make a difference). It's like argumentative fast food. Satisfying in the moment, but you know you shouldn't be doing it. And if you do it all of the time there are going to be consequences to your overall health (in this case emotional/mental). It skews the way you view things. Sorry, rant over.

[MindofShadow]

..... Huh?

"progressive social media" acts like if you don't absolutely love XYZ thing, you are a basement dwelling incel redpill sexist.

Just the two extremes going at one another

[Tofali]

On some of the websites like Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic there is a huge gap between critics' reviews and audience reviews, e.g. in Rotten Tomatoes it's 84% positive from critics and 39% from the audience - this is clearly review bombing

They tried that with Black Panther, If you check the audience score it stands around 50,000 thousands on Rotten Tomatoes but the good thing was I'm sure ppl expected review bombing and they counteracted their plans to bring the audience score down. Unfortunately there is ambivalence with racebent characters from all camps so I think the review bombers will mostly win in their plans to shape the narrative however they want.

[godisawesome]

An interesting perspective on these backlashes and backlash-backlashes is probably the market analysis done by someone like Disney for the MCU and Star Wars.

Like, if I had to guess… Kevin Feige and Kathleeen Kennedy probably feel confident that external complaints and rants about increased representation don't represent any actual market response - they have toy sales, audience demographics, and streaming numbers to analyze, which puts the lie to the “go woke, go broke” nonsense, and also, if they’re analytical enough, clears the air enough fro them to analyze more genuine criticism.

Given their output in the last two years, I'm willing to bet that merch sales haven’t slowed at all on recent properties, and that there’s no appreciable abandonment of their properties by angry white dudes, and likely only delightful increases in their reception by other demographics. Feige and Kennedy aren’t sentimental enough to fight market trends, but are still producing a lot of stuff with either significant minority representation (F&tWS, Obi-Wan) or “starring” minority representation (Ms. Marvel, The Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett).

This also likely means they know enough to realize that while the writing for Moses Ingram’s character may have been lackluster, or Ms. Marvel and Moon Knight might have had some growing pains, but that the actors were all assets that were worth even more investment.

…Which, to bring up my old argumentative point, *should* hopefully result in a good post-mortem the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy that shows they made a serious mistake in prioritizing Adam Driver’s Kylo Ren over both Daisy Ridely’s Rey and John Boyega’s Finn. There actually *is* good publicly available information showing that merch sales for the ST dropped hugely, along with the audience size shrinking in half, after TLJ established the “Kylo Ren must be more important than everyone else” ethos, and even specifically that the shrink in audience size was disproportionately in women and POC audience members.

That arguably illustrates the only real type of backlash studios should fear: apathy among the mainstream audience.

Rey and Finn went from being too shockingly successful characters when TFA was released to characters with smaller fanbases limping along in disappointment after TLJ… and I’m willing to bet that even Kylo Ren’s overall popularity and toy sales shrunk, even if he in comparison grew more popular to audience members staying with the ST.

The first step LFL has to take to reinvigorate the ST-era assets is to admit they have a problem… and that problem is likely white male privilege they allowed Rian Johnson to codify into the ST with TLJ, and that they then forced JJ Abrams to emulate in TROS.

[Agent Z]

As reported by Variety, NBC Universal’s streaming service Peacock has canceled Rutherford Falls after its second season launched this June. The comedy starring Ed Helms, Jana Schmieding, and Michael Greyeyes was acclaimed for its joyous, groundbreaking depiction of Native American identity.

“Borrowing a line from Terry Thomas, played by the ridiculously talented Michael Greyeyes, before our show, ‘Native representation [was], for the most part, a hate crime,’” showrunner and co-creator Sierra Teller Ornelas says in a statement given to Deadline. “Which is why it’s been an honor to introduce the best of Indian Country to the masses.”

The cancelation comes as a particular blow when Indigenous-led shows are still so rare. Reservation Dogs also premiered in 2021, Dark Winds debuted earlier this year, and the list isn’t getting much longer.

“It’s been my life’s honor to make Rutherford Falls, something that reflects Native life as I’ve always seen and felt it, filled with excellence and silliness and love,” Ornelas writes in a statement shared on Twitter. “I have to believe we’re not done yet and pray we find a new home for this awesome show. Forever grateful to Mike, Ed, Jana, Michael, Jesse, the entire cast, crew, and support staff who risked freaking covid, risked sharing their stories and histories to make this show. We started something that’ll never be stopped. We ain’t done, but what we made will stand the test of time.”

https://www.avclub.com/peacock-cance...lms-1849492638

[MindofShadow]

On some of the websites like Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic there is a huge gap between critics' reviews and audience reviews, e.g. in Rotten Tomatoes it's 84% positive from critics and 39% from the audience - this is clearly review bombing

Galadriel could fly the eagles to Mordor or whereever Sauron is right now, kill three Balrogs and decapitate Sauron while twerking on his corpse and that still wouldn't justify a 39% rating lol

[hyped78]

Galadriel could fly the eagles to Mordor or whereever Sauron is right now, kill three Balrogs and decapitate Sauron while twerking on his corpse and that still wouldn't justify a 39% rating lol

Yeah. I guess that if folks who do like the tv show were a bit more active in posting ratings and reviews, this wouldn't be the case, or at least not as much

[MindofShadow]

Yeah. I guess that if folks who do like the tv show were a bit more active in posting ratings and reviews, this wouldn't be the case, or at least not as much

I mean, I've never taken the time to post a rating or review for a movie in my entire life

[hyped78]

I mean, I've never taken the time to post a rating or review for a movie in my entire life

Me neither. See?

[Besouro]

I think it runs a bit deeper with LoTR because some people see it as a symbol of "white purity"?.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/03/enter...cec/index.html

Even "scholars" seem to be divided on the topic. Interestingly, the casting of different races in Middle-Earth didn't really bother me because LoTR is a fantasy.

Hmmm, Why aren't they imposing the same "white purity" logic on House of The Dragons series?

Anyhow to be fair.... Some respect of authenticity to source material is a warranted expectation of fans and die-hards of any source media being adapted.

There is some terribly ingrained hypocrisy.... Why are most folks ok with Idris Elba playing a European Viking Norse God in MCU but the same folks complain about Caucasians playing Egyptian Gods?

Would anyone here accept Caucasian natives in Wakanda perhaps Mbaku as a whiteman after all Wakanda is fictional and fantasy?!?

Anyhow, for raceswaps to occur the Tolkien family estate and GRR Martin must have given approval for it to occur in Rings of Power/ROP and House of the dragons/HotP respectively, right?!?.... Presuming they were not hoodwinked into signing off on it as we have heard many times before when authors are tricked or fooled into signing contracts.

Neil Gaiman openly approved race and gender swaps in Sandman so we all know the author agreed to it,

In my opinion....i think this whole "white purity" assertion is exactly like the supposed gender bias against black women assertion made about #RecastTchalla. Just distractors.

To be fair there is possibly an element of truth to both assertions individually to a minor degree but the wider bigger supporters against race swaps and pro-#RecastTchalla do NOT conform to nor support such assertions....at least in my opinion.

[Besouro]

deodato out here posting his naked self and going "yo the namor actor is small" is peak comic internet.

WTF?!!.... Details please.

[Besouro]

I think the worst one for me was Kylo Ren. Kylo is everything that internet feminists claim to hate. He's a toxic, violent, entitled, emotionally stunted, murderer who was complicit in an act of genocide on a galactic scale. He murdered his own father and let himself off the hook for it. He was born with a silver lightsaber in his mouth, he didn't grow up as a slave or in the desert like his grandfather. He didn't even lose a hand. He's an incel with superpowers, but those thirsty, thirsty, shippers overlooked all that and decided that Rey needed to redeem him from the dark side even though he straight up tried to kill her twice and invaded her mind without permission, they confused sexual tension with plain old tension, yeah Snoke pushed him, but he didn't push him that hard. He seemed like an edgy 14 year old that never grew up. If he hadn't died, he would've been drawn and quartered for war crimes.

And, honestly, Kylo had *zero* menace left by the end of the Force Awakens. He was a terrible villain who was terrible at being a villain, but they pushed him so hard into villainy in the first movie that figuring out what they wanted to do with him sucked the air out of the rest of teh trilogy. It's just one more example of the absolute mess they made of it.

I maintain all three of those movies were bad for different reasons, but each one compounded on the mistakes of what came before. Force Awakens was the least intolerable of them but they were *all* bad.

Kylo was 100% fine until they decided they were gonna romance him and rey and turn him back.

If they continued what they started in TFA, he would have been fine to great.

Agreed and co-signed to all the above posts.

And what horrible is how Finn was utterly and completely WASTED yet he had the best unique character foundation to build a superb character development arc who got utterly ignored and JOHN BOYEGA openly called them out on it....and he is right.