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  1. #1381
    Amazing Member Adam Allen's Avatar
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    I think there's some social context of the 80s that's kind of easy to forget, as far the "racism" against mutants, back in Claremont's old stories. "Mutants" could be feared because it had that association of "radiation", which was just part of the whole new "nuclear age" ... you know, there was the ever-present threat of actual nuclear annihilation during the Cold War, there was Chernobyl and anxiety around nuclear power plants in general, there was Hiroshima and Nagasaki being like only a generation or prior, and just all kinds of anxiety about pollution and increased radiation in the air from satellites and tv and radio waves having multiplied exponentially with modern media, and just like microwave ovens ... basically, the generalized fear that modern technology represented some kind of Frankenstein's monster for the human race, so the idea that some close-minded, fearful, bigoted people would target "mutants" as the manifestation of all they feared ... you know, made some kind of sense.

    I think modern mutant stories would need to somehow lean into modern day cultural anxieties the same way, in order to have anywhere near the same relevance or resonance they did, back in the 80s.
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  2. #1382
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    That is all it comes down to. All those folks made X-Men irrelevant.
    Not really. They all occupy different niches. And even with the massive explosion of popularity those other franchises saw, the attempts at trying to bury the X-Men never worked out as well as Perlmutter was hoping (ask Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite how that went).

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeonsSilverStar View Post
    Also it comes from poor integration plans I've seen from various Xfans which all translate to push the X-Men at the expense of other characters namely Black Panther, Captain Marvel, GOTG.
    Those people are delusional. If anyone actually thinks the Avengers are going away after A4 then I've got some snake oil to sell 'em. If there ain't a New Avengers movie announced, I'll eat my hat.

    Last edited by Holt; 11-04-2018 at 01:40 AM.

  3. #1383

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    Something they really need to do, is move past this "mutants as a race" nonsense. It's obnoxious. Would white and black Afrikaans suddenly have something in common if they were both X-gene positive? I highly doubt it. I'm near-sighted. I don't think I'd want to live in a nation where the only rule for being accepted is that you have to have 20/40 vision with your glasses off. Honest to God, Marvel needs to get with the times: clunky racial anaologies had their place in the 90's. The modern X-men story would work far better if it were based in horror. Stop trying to play it like every major theme is Schindler's list, start playing it like it's 28 days later.

    To the average citizen, mutants should feel like a zombie outbreak. They should feel under attack, like some horrifying epidemic is sweeping the world, turning young people into monstrous freaks. The fact that the X-gene targets the young is terrifying enough on its own: There's also the fact that most mutants DO become violent criminals. Mutant villains outnumber mutant heroes by what? 10:1? So, yeah, the majority of people infected by the X-gene DO turn into maniacs. The central conflict of the X-men shouldn't be struggling for acceptance, it should be struggling to stay moral. To stay human.
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  4. #1384
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post

    To the average citizen, mutants should feel like a zombie outbreak. They should feel under attack, like some horrifying epidemic is sweeping the world, turning young people into monstrous freaks. The fact that the X-gene targets the young is terrifying enough on its own: There's also the fact that most mutants DO become violent criminals. Mutant villains outnumber mutant heroes by what? 10:1? So, yeah, the majority of people infected by the X-gene DO turn into maniacs. The central conflict of the X-men shouldn't be struggling for acceptance, it should be struggling to stay moral. To stay human.
    That's me. I watch the news, people bump into mutants all the time and they take it the wrong way and now your fucked up. Sooo I'm not even this brotha here... I don't want Curt to remember that dis and phase me halfway into a wall and keep it movin'.

    10:1... That's another thing. Ain't but 1 Charles Xavier on planet earth??? That 'school' would be teeming with mutants. All the mutants living in the sewers who look the part and maybe not have powers... forget about it. There should have been some figureheads all over the place. Also seem like the mutant gene skips black folks by a large margin. I still claim Moses Magnum in the same breath with Storm, Bishop and my Aboriginal cousin, the cat with the rock in the sling who spins it around and opens dimensional gates.

    Also shouldn't use race as a mutant metaphor when their haven't been but A FIST FULL OF BLACK MUTANTS.
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  5. #1385
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post
    Something they really need to do, is move past this "mutants as a race" nonsense. It's obnoxious. Would white and black Afrikaans suddenly have something in common if they were both X-gene positive? I highly doubt it. I'm near-sighted. I don't think I'd want to live in a nation where the only rule for being accepted is that you have to have 20/40 vision with your glasses off. Honest to God, Marvel needs to get with the times: clunky racial anaologies had their place in the 90's. The modern X-men story would work far better if it were based in horror. Stop trying to play it like every major theme is Schindler's list, start playing it like it's 28 days later.

    To the average citizen, mutants should feel like a zombie outbreak. They should feel under attack, like some horrifying epidemic is sweeping the world, turning young people into monstrous freaks. The fact that the X-gene targets the young is terrifying enough on its own: There's also the fact that most mutants DO become violent criminals. Mutant villains outnumber mutant heroes by what? 10:1? So, yeah, the majority of people infected by the X-gene DO turn into maniacs. The central conflict of the X-men shouldn't be struggling for acceptance, it should be struggling to stay moral. To stay human.

    Mutants as the race analogy began in the 1960's. It was part of the whole Stan Lee/Jack Kirby situation where they painted the X-Men/Humanity clashes as part of the whole Civil Rights era. Then the X-Men failed , but years later Claremont was able to up the ante and make it more of ...your child may become a mutant and they will be a freak of nature. Which played into the whole humanity hates and fears mutants dynamic. In fact the 1980's seemed to change things a bit and make Mutants and the whole Legacy Virus deal a metaphor for gay issues.

    A fact Bryan Singer played on that theme more in his 1st film.





    In the 2000's , Grant Morrison tried to change things up and create another dynamic to play off of. Since the Legacy Virus angle was done. So in his run its discovered that Mutants will become the dominant species within 2-3 generations. This changed the fear dynamic to one of humanity worried now they would not be the dominant species on the planet.


    Marvel after this run decided to change it of course. But it really was more a step back. I mean we already saw changes happen from 1960's , shift in 1980's and in 2000's had Morrison do this shift too. Now its like the X-Men need that next shift to make humanity hate n fear them again. They need that new hook in a way to sell that.
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  6. #1386
    MYTH SMITH ∞ !!! G. Boney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    I like them best as heroes who just happen to be mutants. I think that stopped after Byrne left the series, and CC had full control until Jim Lee came aboard.
    I agree with the bold part. When I first started reading X-Men there was only one team (not counting New Mutants who were technically students that were not supposed to be out in the field fighting) and they still interacted with other marvel characters and didn't only fight mutants. Then as the X-Men got more popular marvel exploited the hell out of them (the company's primary goal is to turn a profit after all), effectively segregated them from the rest of the universe and made 80 kazillion different mutant teams with yearly comic book crossovers. The "mutant angst" thing isn't an issue for me in doses but when it became the be all end all of an overblown franchise I lost interest.
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  7. #1387
    Mighty Member ZeonsSilverStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    That is all it comes down to. All those folks made X-Men irrelevant. Because they bought more to the table than white folks and wall paper POC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Not really. They all occupy different niches. And even with the massive explosion of popularity those other franchises saw, the attempts at trying to bury the X-Men never worked out as well as Perlmutter was hoping (ask Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite how that went).



    Those people are delusional. If anyone actually thinks the Avengers are going away after A4 then I've got some snake oil to sell 'em. If there ain't a New Avengers movie announced, I'll eat my hat.

    The problems with MVCI went well beyond the X-Men. As much as I'm against the merger I trust Feige enough bring in the X-Men without stepping on any other properties but that's only because they are proven successes.
    Last edited by ZeonsSilverStar; 11-04-2018 at 12:41 PM.
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  8. #1388
    Astonishing Member Overhazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeonsSilverStar View Post
    The problems with MVCI went well beyond the X-Men. As much as I'm against the merger I trust Feige enough bring in the X-Men without stepping on any other properties but that's only because they are proven successes.
    You know what they should do with the X-Men, put them on the west coast, or the southwest I mean why not, let's avoid the problem of putting all the superheroes in new york. Sure theirs black panther in wakanda and ant man in san fran, but I could see the xmen in texas or new mexico.

  9. #1389
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post
    Something they really need to do, is move past this "mutants as a race" nonsense. It's obnoxious. Would white and black Afrikaans suddenly have something in common if they were both X-gene positive? I highly doubt it. I'm near-sighted. I don't think I'd want to live in a nation where the only rule for being accepted is that you have to have 20/40 vision with your glasses off. Honest to God, Marvel needs to get with the times: clunky racial anaologies had their place in the 90's. The modern X-men story would work far better if it were based in horror. Stop trying to play it like every major theme is Schindler's list, start playing it like it's 28 days later.

    To the average citizen, mutants should feel like a zombie outbreak. They should feel under attack, like some horrifying epidemic is sweeping the world, turning young people into monstrous freaks. The fact that the X-gene targets the young is terrifying enough on its own: There's also the fact that most mutants DO become violent criminals. Mutant villains outnumber mutant heroes by what? 10:1? So, yeah, the majority of people infected by the X-gene DO turn into maniacs. The central conflict of the X-men shouldn't be struggling for acceptance, it should be struggling to stay moral. To stay human.
    This is good. I liket his.
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  10. #1390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Not really. They all occupy different niches. And even with the massive explosion of popularity those other franchises saw, the attempts at trying to bury the X-Men never worked out as well as Perlmutter was hoping (ask Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite how that went).
    So that was a green light for that behavior?

    Where there were still X-books being made? X-Men in other books?
    None of them were edited out of books or writers told NO to being used or even excluded from books that were not canon.

    Meanwhile DC was demonstrating how to bury characters inducing those who sold? I am sure Wally West, John Stewart, Cassandra Cain, Tim Drake and every Teen Titan fan would gladly take Marvel version of burying.

  11. #1391
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    So that was a green light for that behavior?



    Don't get me wrong. I get why you'd wanna downplay characters whose film rights you don't own, but they still screwed the pooch there. Part of me wonders now if Feige was playing the long game the whole time while Perlmutter was pulling that nonsense, which is why he didn't have any interest in the Inhumans movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeonsSilverStar View Post
    The problems with MVCI went well beyond the X-Men.
    It don't matter. The roster choices were the single most talked about and high profile controversy regarding the game, even more than the lame graphics. It was basically Marvel and Capcom walking headlong into a PR disaster they could have easily avoided. There's a reason why "functions" became a bonafide meme.
    Last edited by Holt; 11-04-2018 at 10:30 PM.

  12. #1392

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    That latest MvC game looked like an HD remaster of a smart phone game. Doomed from birth.
    The woman in the shadows with the elegant sigh.
    What could a common man do to catch her eye?
    Her easy manner shames me, oh I hate myself so much!
    I tremble and I'm breathless and I'm begging for her touch.
    She sees my anguished urges but continues smirking by,
    If I dare to follow her, it's likely that I'll die.
    But even as she's feeding, as my body's torn apart,
    Will she think upon me kindly?
    When she slowly eats my heart?

  13. #1393
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post

    To the average citizen, mutants should feel like a zombie outbreak. They should feel under attack, like some horrifying epidemic is sweeping the world, turning young people into monstrous freaks. The fact that the X-gene targets the young is terrifying enough on its own: There's also the fact that most mutants DO become violent criminals. Mutant villains outnumber mutant heroes by what? 10:1? So, yeah, the majority of people infected by the X-gene DO turn into maniacs. The central conflict of the X-men shouldn't be struggling for acceptance, it should be struggling to stay moral. To stay human.
    Yeah except that 99% of the X-men look models and have cool powers, Mutant Villains out number heroes but normal mutants who are just trying to live out peaceful lives out numbers villains 40 to 1. Your pitch is what X-men should be is very interesting but it is too late for the X-men to be that. They need to stop pushing out right hate of mutants and pushing overt hate that exists in the real world.The hate and fear thing is played out I mean the US hates and fears black people(see police encounters and white women with phones) but the US also loves Lebron James and Beyonce and The X-men are Lebron and Beyonce. What they should be pushing is the world loves the X-men but still has overt hate normal looking mutants and almost out right hate mutants that look like Morlocks. Also other mutants wouldn't really like the X-men because they don't really get the true treatment that other mutants get I mean I think that is the better approach


    Sidenote: Your idea really makes sense fewer mutants, more Morlock style mutant appearance, X-gene is more of a flaw/accident not the next stage in evolution but more of an offshoot and you have kinda the Neanderthals vs Human thing. It doesn't make sense for mutants to be hated and feared with understanding that overtime the planet will be nothing but mutants. It is more interesting discussion for hate and feared with virus/pathogen/global event that is an causing offshoot species and humans would be around if you eliminate the outside issue.

  14. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Yeah except that 99% of the X-men look models and have cool powers, Mutant Villains out number heroes but normal mutants who are just trying to live out peaceful lives out numbers villains 40 to 1. Your pitch is what X-men should be is very interesting but it is too late for the X-men to be that. They need to stop pushing out right hate of mutants and pushing overt hate that exists in the real world.The hate and fear thing is played out I mean the US hates and fears black people(see police encounters and white women with phones) but the US also loves Lebron James and Beyonce and The X-men are Lebron and Beyonce. What they should be pushing is the world loves the X-men but still has overt hate normal looking mutants and almost out right hate mutants that look like Morlocks. Also other mutants wouldn't really like the X-men because they don't really get the true treatment that other mutants get I mean I think that is the better approach


    Sidenote: Your idea really makes sense fewer mutants, more Morlock style mutant appearance, X-gene is more of a flaw/accident not the next stage in evolution but more of an offshoot and you have kinda the Neanderthals vs Human thing. It doesn't make sense for mutants to be hated and feared with understanding that overtime the planet will be nothing but mutants. It is more interesting discussion for hate and feared with virus/pathogen/global event that is an causing offshoot species and humans would be around if you eliminate the outside issue.
    Agreed about the fewer mutants thing.

    As much as the hardcore X-fan is right, Quesada had the right idea that mutants should be fewer and they should be more unique. They should also look more...inhuman (no pun intended..heh heh). Guys like Iceman, Havok, e.t.c could just go about their merry way without anyone knowing they're mutants.

    Maybe he went about the wrong way but growing up seeing a mutant in a comic outside of the main X-book was a pretty big deal. It was ultimately better that way IMHO.
    Last edited by Username taken; 11-05-2018 at 08:32 AM.
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  15. #1395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overhazard View Post
    You know what they should do with the X-Men, put them on the west coast, or the southwest I mean why not, let's avoid the problem of putting all the superheroes in new york. Sure theirs black panther in wakanda and ant man in san fran, but I could see the xmen in texas or new mexico.
    I wanna say they did a storyline like that a few years back. I didn't read it but the X-Men moved to San Francisco back when Ed Brubaker was still writing for Marvel.

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