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[XPac]

The thing is that they had the storyline to do it. It was a lumberjack match. The entire women's roster pretty much *hated* Sasha and Bayley. Why are the Iiconics/Natalya and all the other heel women helping Sasha? This match should have been a culmination of all the ladies getting their revenge on Sasha for everything that the Role Models have done to them.

Though I don't have issue with Asuka beating Sasha in a rematch, I will agree that was a bizarrly booked lumberjack match. The lumberjacks for the first half of the match forgot they were lumberjacks and just sort of stood on the outside and stayed out of the wrestlers way when they went on the outside. The announcers hyped up the fact that they were there to prevent Bayley from helping Sasha, but that obviously didn't happen.

It was obviousy there to transition the feud from Asuka to Shayna, but the execution was pretty clunky. Would have been just as easy to have a regular match, and have Shayna come out on her own later.

[CliffHanger2]

I guess the difference I have is that I don't think there's a difference between getting cleanly pinned and getting tapped out. A win is a win. Asuka has a submission finisher, so Sasha tapped out instead of getting pinned. If Asuka had a finisher that pinned you, Sasha would have been pinned instead. Wrestlers with submission finished win with submission finishes... there's no reason that should make anyone look better or worse. That's just how it is.

And it's not C lister jobbing if it's a loss to Asuka. She is at a level where she can theoretially beat anyone anywhere. Sasha beat Asuka for the belt, so this was just a recipt. And what it does for the storyline is finish it. Asuka completed her heroes journey to reclaim her title, then gave Sasha a rematch and won that too. THat's a logical finish, and now Asuka can move on while Sasha and Bayley transition to the program with Shayna and Jax in addition to slowly building up their evetual turn each other. For the story they are telling, Sasha suceeding in protecting Bayleys title while Bayley failing to protect Sashas works. It's just further planting seeds for their inevitable feud.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. A win is definitely not a win, Asuka has definitely been protected in her losses. And being submitted is definitely a worse loss than being pinned. That's why you'll see wrestlers passing out and such instead of submitting to show defiance and build their character. That would even been better than this.

[Punisher007]

In WWE canon, tapping out is pretty much the most decisive way you can lose. Basically it's the equivalent of saying "I give up."

Why do you think so many of their top guys never tap out, or only do so EXTREMELY rarely. Or Charlotte went two years without tapping out, and when she finally did, they gave her an "out" even there.

[XPac]

In WWE canon, tapping out is pretty much the most decisive way you can lose. Basically it's the equivalent of saying "I give up."

Why do you think so many of their top guys never tap out, or only do so EXTREMELY rarely. Or Charlotte went two years without tapping out, and when she finally did, they gave her an "out" even there.

I could maybe buy that arguement for a top face who might pass out instead of tapping, but I honestly don't think it applies to Sasha. If Becky can cleanly tap out to Asuka, then Sasha can. To me it's more questionable to argue that Asuka can't tap her out.

[Username taken]

In WWE canon, tapping out is pretty much the most decisive way you can lose. Basically it's the equivalent of saying "I give up."

Why do you think so many of their top guys never tap out, or only do so EXTREMELY rarely. Or Charlotte went two years without tapping out, and when she finally did, they gave her an "out" even there.

Tapping in professional wrestling does indeed say "i give up" and is a feud ender. For example, Rhea Ripley tapping out at Wrestlemania has completely killed whatever momentum she had.

Watching old WWE and other federation matches and you'd be surprised how much faces were protected. Up until recently, you'll very, very rarely see faces tapping out, more often than not they'd pass out or some other shenanigans. As a matter of fact, top guys back in the day never, ever used to tap out. I don't think Cena ever tapped out after he became WWE champion back in the day.

I think when MMA started becoming more mainstream we started seeing faces tapping out. That being said, IMHO we shouldn't see heels tap out top guys. It really does hurt their characters. But heels can tap out, heels are supposed to get their come uppance at the end of extended angles with a top face.

[XPac]

Tapping in professional wrestling does indeed say "i give up" and is a feud ender. For example, Rhea Ripley tapping out at Wrestlemania has completely killed whatever momentum she had.

Watching old WWE and other federation matches and you'd be surprised how much faces were protected. Up until recently, you'll very, very rarely see faces tapping out, more often than not they'd pass out or some other shenanigans. As a matter of fact, top guys back in the day never, ever used to tap out. I don't think Cena ever tapped out after he became WWE champion back in the day.

I think when MMA started becoming more mainstream we started seeing faces tapping out. That being said, IMHO we shouldn't see heels tap out top guys. It really does hurt their characters. But heels can tap out, heels are supposed to get their come uppance at the end of extended angles with a top face.

If Sasha was a face, I could maybe agree they should have had her just pass out instead of tapping out. Maybe. But not everyone needs to be booked like John Cena, especially if we're talking about a heel.

Because she's a heel, I just don't see the issue with her tapping. In story, they ended the career of Kairi Sane. Sasha and Bayley SHOULD get tapped out clean. I think that's just a part of Asuka's heroes journey to get her title back and avenge what happened to Kairi. She should do everything short of ripping out Sashas arm and beating her with it (figuratively speaking).

[Username taken]

If Sasha was a face, I could maybe agree they should have had her just pass out instead of tapping out. Maybe. But not everyone needs to be booked like John Cena, especially if we're talking about a heel.

Because she's a heel, I just don't see the issue with her tapping. In story, they ended the career of Kairi Sane. Sasha and Bayley SHOULD get tapped out clean. I think that's just a part of Asuka's heroes journey to get her title back and avenge what happened to Kairi. She should do everything short of ripping out Sashas arm and beating her with it (figuratively speaking).

Honestly, i don't have a problem with Sasha tapping .

Maybe it happened in quick succession with Sasha but I don't have a problem with heels tapping generally.

[CliffHanger2]

Can anybody name a top heel who tapped out 2 nights in a row? Even after "ending" someone's career.

[HUTHAIFA]

Can anybody name a top heel who tapped out 2 nights in a row? Even after "ending" someone's career.

If the Miz tapped out twice in a row, would we care. Unless, it's a monster heel, I don't see the issue. Sasha is still Sasha.

[Immortal Weapon]

I am so done with NXT and their multiman matches. They have driven it into the ground.

[XPac]

I am so done with NXT and their multiman matches. They have driven it into the ground.

I think they're a bit overdone too (especially the ladder variation), but I sort of see the logic. They're trying to use as many people as they can so that fewer people are sitting in the back doing nothing.

It's well intentioned I think... but overall it needs to be toned down. Not every situation needs to be resolved by a 4 way match. It makes Regal look like a pretty uncreative GM.

[XPac]

If the Miz tapped out twice in a row, would we care. Unless, it's a monster heel, I don't see the issue. Sasha is still Sasha.

I honestly think only the top uber faces need to be protected from tap out wins.

If we're talking Mr. Never Give Up John Cena, I can buy him not tapping and simply passing out. But not everyone needs to be booked like John Cena. Especially the heels. If Samoa Joe taps out Seth, I'm cool with it. Though I suppose if it were a monster heel like the Fiend (not Bray) you might want to protect them from tapping too. But Sasha isn't really in that category.

[Immortal Weapon]

I think they're a bit overdone too (especially the ladder variation), but I sort of see the logic. They're trying to use as many people as they can so that fewer people are sitting in the back doing nothing.

It's well intentioned I think... but overall it needs to be toned down. Not every situation needs to be resolved by a 4 way match. It makes Regal look like a pretty uncreative GM.

Not everybody needs to be on the show. Use who you need. I don't want a random triple threat, fatal 4 way or gauntlet match because they want to put Dream in something and got nothing for him.

[CliffHanger2]

If the Miz tapped out twice in a row, would we care. Unless, it's a monster heel, I don't see the issue. Sasha is still Sasha.

There's a reason why we don't really care about what happens to the Miz. A lot of it has to do with how he's been booked. Despite that even he has had some decent title runs.

[XPac]

There's a reason why we don't really care about what happens to the Miz. A lot of it has to do with how he's been booked. Despite that even he has had some decent title runs.

If the idea is that wrestlers look bad if they lose to submission moves (I notion I don't personally agree with), then shouldn't we get rid of submission moves so that no one looks bad?

Again, I can sort of buy the logic for a top babyface like John Cena... but I don't think everyone needs to be booked like Cena. Especially the heels.