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[Username taken]

Samoa Joe initially was a heel in TnA. He eventually turned face, like Charlotte did... but he started his run as an unstoppable monster heel that choked people out clean. And IMO it was cool.

It was but Charlotte is making people tap not make them sleep.

[Immortal Weapon]

Maybe it's my memory, I just don't ever remember Williams ever being a big deal in the WWE. I also don't believe in not being able to push a guy just because of their past. I think anyone can be rehabbed.

Williams was a big deal everywhere else (He was huge in Japan in particular). He was brought in just to feud with Austin and Brawl For All screwed all that up.

[HUTHAIFA]

Williams was a big deal everywhere else (He was huge in Japan in particular). He was brought in just to feud with Austin and Brawl For All screwed all that up.

Ok, so 90% of the week audience wouldn't know a Dr. Death from a Steve Blackman. So my fragile mind didn't fail me.

[Username taken]

Dr Death was a name I knew back then but wasn’t familiar with the guy.

And the back then I’m referring to was pre-attitude era.

[MiddleMan]

Bart Gunn Got Screwed

and I dont know if it has been discussed here but a talent (non wrestler) has tested positive for COVID

SHUT IT ALL DOWN

[Immortal Weapon]

The Interim cruiserweight championship tournament will be round robin.
https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1249007630925942787

Let's see how WWE does best of the super juniors.

[Punisher007]

Those losses are few and far between. And she doesn't lose clean. Austin, Cena and Roman were faces, so that's just different.

Becky WAS in a complete different boat because it was something of a fan revolt (after losing to Charlotte again) that propped her up. Then she ran with it and became arguably the most over superstar in the company.

You can't have a heel wrestler (or tweener or whatever she is now) constantly and consistently win matches clean and by submission. It makes the faces look weak and Charlotte stronger and stronger.

That's the complete opposite of how to build up the division.

Also with Bayley they made sure that it was made clear that she was inferior to Charlotte and could only win via shenanigans.

The problem with the Samoa Joe comparison that X-Pac keeps making is that Joe was genuinely over and getting responses. Charlotte has never been as over as her push would imply. She's more like Roman, only even worse in terms of cramming her down the fans throats.

What's really insufferable is that Charlotte keeps tapping her opponents out clean as a heel. But do you know when the last time she tapped out on TV was? Pre-Summerslam, in 2018!!!! That's ridiculous for a heel. Even Becky during their entire feud was never allowed to tap Charlotte out with her finisher once. Asuka has never been allowed to either, yet Charlotte has made her tap clean three times. She no sold Bianca's spear completely and beat her seconds later.

Then you have Sasha, Asuka, Rhea, etc on-camera verbally kissing Charlotte's butt, just so WWE can beat it into your head how great she is, it's no wonder many fans are sick of her.

[XPac]

Also with Bayley they made sure that it was made clear that she was inferior to Charlotte and could only win via shenanigans.

The problem with the Samoa Joe comparison that X-Pac keeps making is that Joe was genuinely over and getting responses. Charlotte has never been as over as her push would imply. She's more like Roman, only even worse in terms of cramming her down the fans throats.

What's really insufferable is that Charlotte keeps tapping her opponents out clean as a heel. But do you know when the last time she tapped out on TV was? Pre-Summerslam, in 2018!!!! That's ridiculous for a heel. Even Becky during their entire feud was never allowed to tap Charlotte out with her finisher once. Asuka has never been allowed to either, yet Charlotte has made her tap clean three times. She no sold Bianca's spear completely and beat her seconds later.

Then you have Sasha, Asuka, Rhea, etc on-camera verbally kissing Charlotte's butt, just so WWE can beat it into your head how great she is, it's no wonder many fans are sick of her.

Frankly I'd argue that both Roman and Charlotte are over. They're not necessarily internet darlings, but to the general WWE audience overall I'd say they're just as over as Joe. Roman probably moreso to be quite honest. Yes, Roman got boos but by any objective tangible measurable standard (merchandise, ratings segments, buy rates, etc) Roman is probably the most over fulltime male superstar in the company. So comparing her to Charlotte isn't doing her a whole lot of harm.

[BigLbo]

Charlotte is not presented as a big person. She just is bigger than most of her opponents, but her size is rarely brought like it is for Vader or Joe.

She is presented as just being superior. It's why she doesn't work well as a face, and it's why even as a heel, it's hard to get a proper rub from her. I think Charlotte is the best all around female performer in American Wrestling.

But her value to the NXT roster is to bring up everybody. Not just having a decent match and having them tap out cleanly to her. It didn't work with Brock, and diminished the Universal title to this day.

A Bad Guy Has To Do Bad Things.

Because if everything the heel says and does is right than the only thing I am booing is Vince McMahons booking. That not storyline driven heat. That's crippling Roman Reigns heat. Charlotte and women's roster deserves better than that. Charlotte can't have a worthwhile career, if the only people she can fight are Rhonda and Becky.

can't see how she can be the best if she doesn't work well as a face and is also hard to get a rub off as a heel(is she a heel this week??).

Also with Bayley they made sure that it was made clear that she was inferior to Charlotte and could only win via shenanigans.

but that win was so meaningful!!

The problem with the Samoa Joe comparison that X-Pac keeps making is that Joe was genuinely over and getting responses. Charlotte has never been as over as her push would imply. She's more like Roman, only even worse in terms of cramming her down the fans throats.

What's really insufferable is that Charlotte keeps tapping her opponents out clean as a heel. But do you know when the last time she tapped out on TV was? Pre-Summerslam, in 2018!!!! That's ridiculous for a heel. Even Becky during their entire feud was never allowed to tap Charlotte out with her finisher once. Asuka has never been allowed to either, yet Charlotte has made her tap clean three times. She no sold Bianca's spear completely and beat her seconds later.

Then you have Sasha, Asuka, Rhea, etc on-camera verbally kissing Charlotte's butt, just so WWE can beat it into your head how great she is, it's no wonder many fans are sick of her.

i don't know if people remember this but 1)joe was in the x-division when he 1st came to TNA so he was a monster in the division 2)it lasted about 2 years and 3)the x-division was in pretty rough shape when joe was done with it because he choked everybody out and never got pinned or submitted to drop the title. so yeah good for joe, not the division.

also remember when xpac tried to sell us that charlotte was needed in the mania main event to "either take the pin" or "give the fans somebody to boo"??

the problems with charlotte's booking is easy to see for anybody who isn't choosing to turn a blind eye to it.

[HUTHAIFA]

Frankly I'd argue that both Roman and Charlotte are over. They're not necessarily internet darlings, but to the general WWE audience overall I'd say they're just as over as Joe. Roman probably moreso to be quite honest. Yes, Roman got boos but by any objective tangible measurable standard (merchandise, ratings segments, buy rates, etc) Roman is probably the most over fulltime male superstar in the company. So comparing her to Charlotte isn't doing her a whole lot of harm.

I don't think it's an argument. Roman and Charlotte are over. They might not be exactly what Vince wants to be, I would argue that Charlotte is lot closer to that vision. Charlotte doesn't get old Roman Booking Booes yet.

[XPac]

I don't think it's an argument. Roman and Charlotte are over. They might not be exactly what Vince wants to be, I would argue that Charlotte is lot closer to that vision. Charlotte doesn't get old Roman Booking Booes yet.

CHarlotte's usualy a heel, so boo's aren't an issue with her like Roman. Plus, Charlotte is more likely to give you the match of the night than Roman is (even though Roman IMO is at times underrated). It's harder to boo someone that's giving you some of the best matches on the show.

But generally speaking there often is a backlash against wrestlers who are at the top. Cena is the most obvious example. I'll bet money Becky a year from now will be on the receiving end of that too, if not sooner. It is what it is. Charlotte gets backlash, but it's basically white noise as long as she's a heel (which is most of the time). It was more obvious when she was a face, but turning her heel largely mitigates any issues that backlash might cause.

[Baseman]

CHarlotte's usualy a heel, so boo's aren't an issue with her like Roman. Plus, Charlotte is more likely to give you the match of the night than Roman is (even though Roman IMO is at times underrated). It's harder to boo someone that's giving you some of the best matches on the show.

But generally speaking there often is a backlash against wrestlers who are at the top. Cena is the most obvious example. I'll bet money Becky a year from now will be on the receiving end of that too, if not sooner. It is what it is. Charlotte gets backlash, but it's basically white noise as long as she's a heel (which is most of the time). It was more obvious when she was a face, but turning her heel largely mitigates any issues that backlash might cause.

Becasuse the company books its top babyfaces really ,really poorly.Cena got hate largely becasuse his run as WWE's top guy consisted of him buring talent left and right.Winning when he really wasnt supposed to (Nexus feud for example).The only way the dude lost during that time was due to screwy finishes.

[XPac]

Becasuse the company books its top babyfaces really ,really poorly.Cena got hate largely becasuse his run as WWE's top guy consisted of him buring talent left and right.Winning when he really wasnt supposed to (Nexus feud for example).The only way the dude lost during that time was due to screwy finishes.

There's honestly not a whole lot unusual about how Cena was handled. Bruno, Hogan, Warrior, Austin, Undertaker, Rock ... they almost never lost. Thats sort of what it means to be a top babyface. It's what separates a Hogan from a Brutus Beefcake or a Austin from a Christian or a Cena from a Miz... they are dominant.

If people don't like it then they don't like it, but let's not pretend this is anything new. WWE has always booked their top babyfaces this way.

[Immortal Weapon]

There's honestly not a whole lot unusual about how Cena was handled. Bruno, Hogan, Warrior, Austin, Undertaker, Rock ... they almost never lost. Thats sort of what it means to be a top babyface. It's what separates a Hogan from a Brutus Beefcake or a Austin from a Christian or a Cena from a Miz... they are dominant.

If people don't like it then they don't like it, but let's not pretend this is anything new. WWE has always booked their top babyfaces this way.

Austin and Rock lost a lot. The WWE title was hotspot often during the attitude era.

[XPac]

Austin and Rock lost a lot. The WWE title was hotspot often during the attitude era.

I guess it depends on how you define a lot. Cena is a 16 time world champion, so he clearly lost the belt a fair number of times too.

I'd still argue it's pretty fair to say Cena, Austin and Rock rarely lost. And when they a lot of the time as faces at least it wasn't entirely clean. Again, that's what it means to be a top face.